Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: mmcv on 12 January 2019, 06:21:56 PM

Title: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: mmcv on 12 January 2019, 06:21:56 PM
Hey, do you lot varnish your 10mm's or not?

I used a spray varnish on my 10mm Crusades armies, but truth be told I think it was too weak to do much of anything.

I've now got a brush on varnish that I've used on some of my Zombiecide minis and started using on a few of my 10mm ECW commanders.

Before I move to do the troops though, I thought it was a worthwhile question to ask - is there a benefit to varnishing at the smaller scales?

With big figures where you're handling the figure itself a lot and there's skin contact to the mini and wear and tear it makes a lot of sense, but at a small scale where most of the handling is of entire bases, does it still have benefits? I.e. does it increase the longevity of the paint jobs, or is it an unnecessary extra step?

Interested to hear your thoughts!
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Steve J on 12 January 2019, 06:36:49 PM
I always varnish/lacquer my figures as it helps protect the paint and also gives an even finish. Even when based, I will pick up the figures on occasion, so that extra level of protection is well worth it IMHO.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Norm on 12 January 2019, 06:38:36 PM
I have always felt varnishing metal as essential. The ones that I have failed to varnish adequately have bare metal now showing through some of the high points on the figures.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Westmarcher on 12 January 2019, 06:48:38 PM
Definitely varnish them. So annoying when your hard work is easily scuffed off.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Nick the Lemming on 12 January 2019, 08:01:11 PM
Always varnish (brush on for me) all my figures, even the 3mm ones.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Orcs on 12 January 2019, 08:20:34 PM
I always varnish with at least two coats.  Vallejo paints while excellent appear to be softer than some of the others available. Consequently I often varnish partway through painting to protect what I have already done.

I use a brush on varnish most of the problems seem to occur with sprays.  I do use sprays occasionally as I have some weathering effects that are water soluble and never fully dry, so I seal them with spray varnish before putting my normal two coats on
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: paulr on 12 January 2019, 08:28:23 PM
Quote from: Steve J on 12 January 2019, 06:36:49 PM
I always varnish/lacquer my figures as it helps protect the paint and also gives an even finish. Even when based, I will pick up the figures on occasion, so that extra level of protection is well worth it IMHO.

I also varnish my figures, the even finish that Steve mentions is definitely an additional plus
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: mmcv on 12 January 2019, 09:26:20 PM
Seems like a pretty unanimous consensus! Thanks for the advice, I will continue with my varnishing plans.  :-bd
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 12 January 2019, 11:22:52 PM
Absolutely yes.
At least two coats. Army painter matt.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 January 2019, 11:43:23 PM
Indispensable for protection. I use artist's matt fixative spray.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: mmcv on 13 January 2019, 12:15:13 AM
I have vallejo matt varnish to brush on. I think I have a can of artist fixitive too, may give it a go.

Do you varnish your bases too?

Playing with a couple of soakings of watered down pvc to seal up some basing experiments. Would you varnish on top of that?

Though I'm getting a sense it will be "when in doubt.... add varnish"!
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 13 January 2019, 09:21:02 AM
Needed for all metal and soft plastic figures. I still varnish the hard plastic stuff as well, but suspect it's not really needed for the figure, although it is needed to fix the flock and sand on the base.

IanS
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Leman on 13 January 2019, 11:19:41 AM
Yes it is - but brush it on as spray cans don't always do what they say on the tin!
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Fenton on 13 January 2019, 11:23:11 AM
Yeah I always varnish. Helps solidify the gravel on the base and as I give my figures a W&N wash of a future wash it helps deaden the shine from them
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 January 2019, 11:33:59 AM
Yup, the only reason not to add a coat of varnish is when it needs two :)

Spray varnish all the way. Fast, easy and reliable. Life's too short for brush on.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Ben Waterhouse on 13 January 2019, 11:43:20 AM
Brush is better. I use Windsor and Newton acrylic varnish
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: mmcv on 13 January 2019, 12:02:44 PM
Brush on is also easier to get online! Most spray on ones won't deliver to me, so would need to find a physical shop, which is a lot less convenient. Also like the finish I've gotten from brush on better.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Fenton on 13 January 2019, 12:10:21 PM
I use W&N spray Matt varnish which I get from Bradbury Graphics
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: mmcv on 13 January 2019, 01:00:50 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 13 January 2019, 12:10:21 PM
I use W&N spray Matt varnish which I get from Bradbury Graphics

I'll take a look next time I'm in the area, cheers.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Leman on 13 January 2019, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 13 January 2019, 11:33:59 AM
Yup, the only reason not to add a coat of varnish is when it needs two :)

Spray varnish all the way. Fast, easy and reliable. Life's too short for brush on.
Clearly a man who has never had 6 weeks worth of painting turn to s**t courtesy off a spray can. 5 minutes to spray, including shaking the can, 20 minutes to use a brush - 15 minutes saving weeks of heartache.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Aksu on 13 January 2019, 06:27:31 PM
Hullo,
Always varnish. I paint with Vallejo acrylics. Then brush on the Winsor & Newton Matt Varnish mentioned earlier, and which I have raved about in our blog http://www.the-ancients.com/gemigabok/excellent-matt-varnish/ (http://www.the-ancients.com/gemigabok/excellent-matt-varnish/).
I do sometimes use Vallejo Satin varnish for vehicles, horses, helmets, flags and all sorts of not-quite-shiny things.
Cheers,
Aksu
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 January 2019, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: Leman on 13 January 2019, 04:23:31 PM
Clearly a man who has never had 6 weeks worth of painting turn to s**t courtesy off a spray can. 5 minutes to spray, including shaking the can, 20 minutes to use a brush - 15 minutes saving weeks of heartache.

Six weeks of painting would be less than a dozen figures :)

Never had an unfixable problem with spraying. Couple of incidents where the varnish was cloudy were fixed with a second coat and one of them was initially brushed and fixed with a hasty spray coat.

I can spray in a couple of minutes (50% of which is shaking the can) stuff that would take 30 or 40 minutes of frustrating hand varnishing.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Terry37 on 13 January 2019, 07:58:35 PM
Yep! Steve J said it all in my opinion, I actually do coats of spray clear - a semi-gloss/gloss (depending if decals are to be applied) and then a nice heavy matte finish coat.

Spent too much time painting them not to protect them!

Terry
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: mmcv on 13 January 2019, 10:15:18 PM
Some great advice here, thanks! I'll brush on my varnish to the ones on the painting sticks at the moment, then attempt to do the same on the units already based. Want to do a PVA soaking in their basing first to hold it in place or I just know I'll end up with a bunch of grass varnished to someone's posterior!
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Noktu on 14 January 2019, 07:02:39 AM
Do you guys varnish after the grass flock has been applied? To this day I've always applied varnish before adding grass.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Westmarcher on 14 January 2019, 09:32:45 AM
I brush the varnish on - that way I can be sure the whole figure is covered and there is no 'pooling' in crevices, etc. I'm currently using Kevin Dallimore's technique, using gloss enamel varnish for the first coat and matt acrylic for the second. Although this seems to protect the figure better, I'm not always happy with the results because sometimes, some sheen from the gloss undercoat shows through in certain parts. Perhaps the brushing is not effective as I think it is but the process is not weather dependent and I don't feel it takes long (this is probably helped by the fact that I only paint figures in small batches). I'm using a Humbrol acrylic varnish so must try the Winsor & Newton to see if this will be better.

I mount the figure(s) on Pendraken painting sticks for painting and always varnish them before basing. Applying flock or static grass is the very last stage in the whole procedure.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Matt J on 14 January 2019, 09:42:55 AM
Never use varnish as that would imply its a finished model!

I hear too many horror stories about varnishing going wrong. I spend far too long painting my models to see them buggered up, would rather touch up where required.

Matt
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Womble67 on 14 January 2019, 12:38:47 PM
I always varnish and use either matt or gloss humbrol varnish which i brush on as I feel you get better coverage

Take care

Andy
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Ben Waterhouse on 14 January 2019, 05:30:17 PM
Quote from: Leman on 13 January 2019, 04:23:31 PM
Clearly a man who has never had 6 weeks worth of painting turn to s**t courtesy off a spray can. 5 minutes to spray, including shaking the can, 20 minutes to use a brush - 15 minutes saving weeks of heartache.

I feel your pain Bru. Been there, done that, binned aerosols (in an ecological way)
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Orcs on 14 January 2019, 08:56:19 PM
Quote from: Westmarcher on 14 January 2019, 09:32:45 AM
I'm using a Humbrol acrylic varnish so must try the Winsor & Newton to see if this will be better.

I mount the figure(s) on Pendraken painting sticks for painting and always varnish them before basing. Applying flock or static grass is the very last stage in the whole procedure.

I have had several comments about how "matt" my figures are using the Winsor and Newton Galleria Matt acrylic varnish.  I did find that sometimes when painting over gloss varnished figures you needed two coats, but I think that was due to my not making sure of full coverage with the matt varnish.

The Winsor and newton stuff is available from "The Works" see link below, or from Amazon and other art shops.  I always get my kids to buy a bottle for me at Christmas 

https://www.theworks.co.uk/p/artist-supplies/winsor-and-newton-galeria-matt-varnish/094376968736?CAWELAID=720011340002626067&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4cHd7JPu3wIVSsKyCh2ABgKmEAQYASABEgJRTPD_BwE
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: jimduncanuk on 14 January 2019, 09:18:52 PM
I am a previous convert to Winsor & Newton acrylic varnishes.

I use the brush on matt version for most things where it is important to get good coverage to minimise handling wear and tear.

I use the brush on gloss version for the same reasons on my 'old school' collections. It dries quickly and appears to be fairly tough and shiny.

More recently I continue to use the matt version but then top coat with a de luxe spray matt varnish from Minibits. It looks just that bit more matt. I use this combination on commission work.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: fsn on 15 January 2019, 07:54:56 AM
All of the above.

I spay varnish everything - after basing. Most things are varnished matt, but I have used silk and gloss on tiny aeroplanes and tinier ships.

For some, very selective figures, I will use W&N varnish selectively. For example my Greek Gods are matt for the most part, but the armours are brushed gloss.

I find the easist thing is to make sure I pick things up by the base whenever possible.
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Techno on 15 January 2019, 08:04:48 AM
I used to use Letracoat, Matt Varnish....Never ever had a duff tin of that !!

Sadly, I'm not sure if that's even available anymore.  :(
Used to buy it from larger stationery shops.

To make ABSOLUTELY sure I didn't have a rogue tin, I used to spray the paper that the figures were destined to stand on, when they were varnished..... dry the varnish with a hairdryer (Don't tell the better half you're doing this)...and check it was 'as I wanted'.

Like I say...never had a problem with it.

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Is varnishing worthwhile?
Post by: Leman on 15 January 2019, 09:00:34 AM
I reckon I was the better half!