Pendraken Miniatures Forum

I am moderately well known for my dislike of certain poses in figures. Since I am more lenient about modern figures, and ancient are a bit more complicated in weapons terms, I thought I would probe the caries and ask my fellow forum members about their likes. I am not asking in any way to influence Pendraken, just to find out how far I am from the norm.

Please confine your answers to line or light infantry, 1700-1865, and I have excluded command options. I include a diagram as a guide.

(http://www.thortrains.com/getright/britishrifledrill2.jpg)

This does rather overlook the "horse" in the "horse and musket", doesn't it?

It does. I may do a second poll.

Not all of the above are ideal examples - nevertheless, my votes now registered.

The "other" would be a "march attack" pose (e.g., SYP1).

On horses, I don't like the standing horses (e.g., SYP28) - you know, the ones standing with legs together and ram rod straight. I would much prefer to have had charging horses (e.g., SYP16) for all of my SYW cavalry units - more dynamic.

Oh!, I also hate "support" sprues - whether it be on horse* or foot figures - especially "ice skaters"(!)


* mind you, I don't mind the odd one on quadrupeds - I can usually cut these off as the other 3 legs are usually sufficient to support the figure.

Horses should be trotting, at most. Infantry - its harder. Baccus always model them with left shoulder arms, and firing poses are vulnerable, also rather to wide.

Quote from: Westmarcher on 28 October 2018, 11:35:29 AM
The "other" would be a "march attack" pose (e.g., SYP1).

I  think the charge is the most similar.

i voted for shoulder, charge, loading with ramrod, and then i had an error and choose "standing ready", while i meant to take "standing present"

et tu Cooman?

Like a complete dick I took a guess at what the options meant, completed the questionnaire, submitted it and then discovered the diagram lower down the page. think this is going to make the exercise pretty pointless.

Since I struggle to work out what some of the images are supposed to represent

For skirmishers - Firing and loading

For formed troops - march attack and firing

In an ideal world, of course, there would be scores of poses for each troop type but sadly, in the real world, Pendraken would be bankrupt!!

Why limit it to 4 poses? I like the WSS  range with lots of different poses. That way I can give each nation a separate pose. Is easy way to sort them at end of game

Surprised this thread wasn't linked to Top Totty...
:P

I prefer positions that first allow the figure to be based so the rifle does not extend over the end of the base, so vertical positions are at the top of my list. Then I go for the best pose to fi the role the figure is playing, so for lights and skirmishers I like some kind of action or active running type position, but rule one still applies.

Terry

Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 October 2018, 05:34:30 PM
Surprised this thread wasn't linked to Top Totty...
:P

Now there's a thought.   :-\

Quote from: fsn on 28 October 2018, 12:51:04 PM
I  think the charge is the most similar.

Not really. See Code SYP1 (right hand figure)

https://pendraken.co.uk/18th-century/seven-years-war/prussian/ (https://pendraken.co.uk/18th-century/seven-years-war/prussian/)

.... although strangely, March Attack in the French Napoleonic range is different and more like "The Slope" (see Code NPF1)

https://pendraken.co.uk/napoleonic/1809/french/ (https://pendraken.co.uk/napoleonic/1809/french/)

p.s. I have a feeling I might have voted for 5.  :-[

Of course, with skirmishers the choice is different; maximum variety becomes the ideal.

I have always preferred the 'Ready' pose...or similar 'advancing'. Firing/loading poses just look daft when a formed unit is  moving...but the 'ready' looks great for firing line, advancing or Square. Probably a hang up from the old days of Hinchcliffe 25mm pics in old wargame books! Somehow, I just cannot get away with the 'March Attack' pose that everyone loves...even though it is 'easier' in many ways.
I LOVED the 'Ready' poses in the old Peninsula range...must have given much hair tairing to the Pendraken staff a while back with requests...always accommodated! :)  Really should get back to painting the hordes...though eyes ain't what they were then.  :(
In other periods, the pose that I HATE is the running flat out...Penelope Pitstop, anybody?  :)

Shoulder/slope, for formed infantry, and marching rather than at attention.  Present standing/loading for open order skirmishers.   I dislike officers in a different stance - in other words, marching infantry should have marching officers and I prefer cavalry with sabres/lances shouldered and not a variety of poses like a bunch of red Indians!  

Quote from: John Cook on 29 October 2018, 12:16:35 AM
Shoulder/slope, for formed infantry, and marching rather than at attention.  Present standing/loading for open order skirmishers.   I dislike officers in a different stance - in other words, marching infantry should have marching officers and I prefer cavalry with sabres/lances shouldered and not a variety of poses like a bunch of red Indians!  

I'd like to see hussars looking rather wilder, though I agree about cuirassiers and dragoons in uniform poses (very glad our worthy hosts were willing to arrange cuirassiers charging with sword pointing forward for me, however; they really look the cat's pajamas that way).

The slope for me. Line infantry advancing behind a skirmish screen would be at the slope until they reached the point of assaulting the enemy - which is actually fleeting in most games.

What I do hate:
Guard units at march attack
Cuirassiers charging
         both should all be sat at the rear in reserve

Infantry packs that say "marching" and you get a mix of right and left shoulder shift AND figures marching out of step!  >:(

Quote from: FierceKitty on 29 October 2018, 04:35:30 AM
I'd like to see hussars looking rather wilder, though I agree about cuirassiers and dragoons in uniform poses (very glad our worthy hosts were willing to arrange cuirassiers charging with sword pointing forward for me, however; they really look the cat's pajamas that way).

I didn't think you wore pajamas ;) ;D

Apologies, Westmarcher. Was looking at the wrong picture or just typing the wrong thing.

Quote from: Dr Dave on 29 October 2018, 06:20:49 AM

Infantry packs that say "marching" and you get a mix of right and left shoulder shift AND figures marching out of step! 

Got a point there; variations within a pose are very welcome for the overall look but they should at least be in step and handle weapons in the same manner.
I'm just working on some ACW figures right now and I fear I'll need to sort them accordingly losing the 'campaign look'...

Cheers,
Rob

Quote from: paulr on 29 October 2018, 06:41:19 AM
I didn't think you wore pajamas ;) ;D

...and therefore they are in crisp, pristine, hospital-starched condition! I admit I'm not sure why your cuirassiers go into action wearing pajamas, but it's your choice, no doubt.

Quote from: fsn on 29 October 2018, 08:03:16 AM
Apologies, Westmarcher. Was looking at the wrong picture or just typing the wrong thing.

No worries (might be a case of early onset old codger-itis, though  :-\ )

Quote from: John Cook on 29 October 2018, 12:16:35 AM
and I prefer cavalry with sabres/lances shouldered and not a variety of poses like a bunch of red Indians! 

Know what you mean (although I don't mind sabres drawn in other poses too much provided they are not flaying about too much) Take, for example, the commonly found mounted cavalry figure aiming his carbine to the side, ready to shoot the trooper to his left.  :o  How can you base these in a line? Sometimes it seems manufacturers are not quite sure what their market is - boys who play with toy soldiers OR grown-ups who play war-games with .... er ... toy soldiers.  :-[

Quote from: FierceKitty on 29 October 2018, 09:46:10 AM
...and therefore they are in crisp, pristine, hospital-starched condition! I admit I'm not sure why your cuirassiers go into action wearing pajamas, but it's your choice, no doubt.

Hmmm...cuirassiers going into action in pajamas should have theirs very, very well starched I suppose for them to count as cuirassiers...

Cheers,
Rob

Plus, helmets should be well polished ... after all, they'll want to look their best if there is a breakthrough.  

Quote from: Ace of Spades on 29 October 2018, 09:03:52 AM
Got a point there; variations within a pose are very welcome for the overall look but they should at least be in step and handle weapons in the same manner.
I'm just working on some ACW figures right now and I fear I'll need to sort them accordingly losing the 'campaign look'...

There is a well known manufacturer and pretty much all of their marching figures are "out of step". For some nations I'd like that look. But the idea of having the Grenadier Guards advancing by the left - or right - shuffle is really daft. A bit like the the bayonets on and off. It's either one or the other. There never has been an order "fix your bayonet if you'd like to - no pressure". What some people consider as a campaign look is actually just plain unrealistic.

I have to be honest, I hate figures with bayonets because the buggers have a nasty habit of snapping off. Furthermore I've only ever come across one set of rules which has a modifier for bayonets being fixed or not (Johnny Reb) and I don't play them any more as they are too slow to give an enjoyable game.

Quote from: Leman on 30 October 2018, 04:20:54 PM
I have to be honest, I hate figures with bayonets because the buggers have a nasty habit of snapping off. Furthermore I've only ever come across one set of rules which has a modifier for bayonets being fixed or not (Johnny Reb) and I don't play them any more as they are too slow to give an enjoyable game.

Good point - how many Napoleonic line infantry figures come without the bayonet fixed?

Quote from: Leman on 30 October 2018, 04:20:54 PM
I have to be honest, I hate figures with bayonets because the buggers have a nasty habit of snapping off.

I must admit I do like to see a line of gleaming bayonets. I imagine the larger the scale the more that problem will occur and have heard that, in at least one of the plastic ranges, bayonets can be delicate.  With most of my current collection being Peter Pig (quite robust wee guys) and Pendraken, I've been quite lucky in that respect. Mind you, I once had a broken musket with a Pendraken figure but to be fair, the base it was on fell from table height and hit a hard floor! In fact, the more I think about it, if Pendraken had omitted bayonets in their Prussian SYW range (and some codes do), I may not have purchased them (Frederick ordered bayonets to be fixed at all times) and so, may not have encountered and enjoyed the fun of this forum  (Hey! Who groaned there at the back?).   :)

Leon - cut off all Bayonets immediately, we may then get rid of one of the most disruptive members ;)

I like to have marching-type poses and skirmishing type poses, but the more of each type the better, rather than just one or two. The AWI and LOA ranges are great for that, while some others I've not bothered with because they're just too samey.

Oh well, that's uniforms for you, not to mention drill.

 ;D

Quote from: Leman on 31 October 2018, 03:21:35 PM
Oh well, that's uniforms for you, not to mention drill.

I'm thinking more about the running poses etc, there's no drill synchronised running, and there's always some slight variance you can put in even with marching or firing poses, such as adding moustaches, heads cocked slightly differently, legs posed a little differently, etc. When they're all exactly the same figure, it looks like an army of clones.

Quote from: Leman on 28 October 2018, 02:46:18 PM
Like a complete dick I took a guess at what the options meant, completed the questionnaire, submitted it and then discovered the diagram lower down the page. think this is going to make the exercise pretty pointless.

The Diagram did not show when I did it either, so I did exactly the same.  ;D

On bayonets... most troops in the old days would always have their bayonets fixed when in the field; both to impress and to be prepared for whatever could come their way. In a Confederate unit marching figures may well be a mix of troops with and without bayonets. They were supposed to have them but if you read original reports you see that many men were without. Partly due to the amount of different rifles  available and above all the fact that large amounts were picked up from the battlefields (often without the hard to find matching bayonets). But still, better to have them fixed on figures with the possibility to cut them off then without I'd say.

Cheers,
Rob

Russians / Soviets didn't have scabbards until after WW2, so always had them fixed. Note that reloading a muzzle-loader with a bayonet was both difficult and uncomfortable.

Quote from: ianrs54 on 01 November 2018, 02:53:05 PM
Note that reloading a muzzle-loader with a bayonet was both difficult and uncomfortable.

It's not that bad really and doesn't cost any more time than reloading without a bayonet. Believe me I've done it plenty of times with an average of three to four shots a minute with and without bayonet and while using ramrod. The gun is in exactly the same position when reloading with or without the bayonet. Even reloading in two or three ranks with bayonets fixed is not a problem at all as long as people are trained at what they are doing.
Like all things military; it's repetition that makes it go smooth. Train hard, fight easy...

Cheers,
Rob

Here are some of my favourite poses for horse and musket period.  :d

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzlNdivXgRe1IEUoAjEwNrjCbe3HNnE4T-sj4e9HRZL5geRubS)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHici67kieu7BYLAPjfQikDK-nHTsasg5a0EVhHapBukhelYW_bQ)(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9sC66RT5eLQRvWA_f7Kh_uqtq8QOJBPBKfd9ucWQCrsC1Qv0x)
(https://st2.depositphotos.com/1023099/8182/i/450/depositphotos_81829250-stock-photo-portrait-of-a-beautiful-steampunk.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNd4OylD-hKDmdHr2QOu_fdREYEPn7XZsh9UoLEEbPONDeomwu)

Well, that's outrageous!!

The last two images are clearly Steampunk not Horse & Musket!

I blame modern education and Social Media!

Harrumph!!

Yours,

Horatio Blimp, Colonel (Rtd.)

Quote from: Ithoriel on 03 November 2018, 01:11:56 PM
Well, that's outrageous!!

The last two images are clearly Steampunk not Horse & Musket!

I blame modern education and Social Media!

Harrumph!!

Yours,

Horatio Blimp, Colonel (Rtd.)

I know but they were so nice I had to include them  ;)

Well that seems to have run its course.

Interesting I find that 25% chose a "marching" pose (slope or shoulder arms), 24% chose ready or charge, and 17% chose present (either kneeling or standing).

Seems that Pendraken get it basically right.  :)

I think that we still need some "beating the enemy with the musket held in a wild overhead swing" - but only for the League of Ausberg. 

Quote from: fsn on 06 November 2018, 11:49:11 AM
I think that we still need some "beating the enemy with the musket held in a wild overhead swing" - but only for the League of Ausberg. 

Didnt know Leon had access to the Airfix designers of the 60's. From experience you keep the Rifle/Musket low when using the bayonet, to parry with it. Hitting people over the head is frowned on, due to potential damage.

Quote from: ianrs54 on 06 November 2018, 12:03:00 PM
Hitting people over the head is frowned on, due to potential damage.

Indeed; wooden stocks of government issued firearms are very susceptible to breaking! Thrusting the guns butt in the enemies face is much better for the weapon; it also has a nice metal reinforcement on that end which serves it's purpose very well in this motion!

Cheers,
Rob

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrnHJhQMtUbMMrDUR8MF_58uLX-Brso4FF6_RkuwIJcri9tKPo)(https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/wp-content/uploads/satevepost/alamo-S.jpg)(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1724/0779/articles/the-battle-of-the-alamo_1024x1024.jpg?v=1501000618)(https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/alamo6.jpg)

Maybe for the Alamo set.

Quote from: fsn on 06 November 2018, 11:49:11 AM

I think that we still need some "beating the enemy with the musket held in a wild overhead swing" - but only for the League of Ausberg. 

I think you must have been beaten over the head with a few wild swings.  How many times have I got to tell you? It's Ausburg, you berk ......  :P

(or should that be 'burk?'  :-\ )

Quote from: Westmarcher on 06 November 2018, 01:32:11 PM
I think you must have been beaten over the head with a few wild swings.  How many times have I got to tell you? It's Ausburg, you berk ......  :P

(or should that be 'burk?'  :- )

Isn't the correct name of the town Augsburg by any chance...?

Rob

...and, in conclusion, ladies and gentlemen, it was at this point in the early twenty-first century that the Pendraken Forum may be considered to have started its mutation into another TMP. May I thank Professor Tango for inviting me to address you all this evening?