Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: Leon on 07 October 2018, 01:30:40 PM

Title: X & Y?
Post by: Leon on 07 October 2018, 01:30:40 PM
There seems to be a lot of rulesets called some variation on the X & Y theme, like Fire & Fury, Badgers & Burrows, Oak & Iron, Sword & Spear, etc.  If you were going to launch your own rules, what X & Y name would you give them?  The less sensible the better...!
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Techno on 07 October 2018, 01:44:21 PM
....No...I'm not remotely going to put down what I thought of.

It would probably even make 'Orcs' blush....(Sorry...what am I saying ?...That's just about impossible.)

Cheers - Mr Sewer-brain
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Shedman on 07 October 2018, 01:53:36 PM
a set of rules for sieges  - Bucket & Spade
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Norm on 07 October 2018, 03:18:22 PM
I think I like your idea of just calling them X and Y. They would of course work for any period.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 07 October 2018, 03:29:14 PM
Tears and tantrums
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 07 October 2018, 04:17:55 PM
"Architects and Accountants" - where Barbarians, Amazons, Paladins, Rogues and the like pretend to be working in a 20th Century Dystopia :)

Back when I played EVE Online I used to say that for relaxation I pretended to work in IT but in real life I was a freelance mercenary with ties to the Amarr Civil Service!

"Bankers and Bar Stewards" perhaps?

There again I might go for rules for using musicians and camp followers in games - "Trumpets and Strumpets"

Or maybe a game of lunatics, warders, laundrymen and escapes - "Nuts, Screws, Washers and Bolts"

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: d_Guy on 07 October 2018, 04:25:40 PM
A generic rules set for all periods called, Roll & Cuss.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 07 October 2018, 04:32:47 PM
The game of stones and large humanoids - it's only "Rock & Troll" (but I like it)

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Orcs on 07 October 2018, 04:42:52 PM
Goblins and Orcs - what else?

Biggus Dickus and the Barbarians.

sh*t and Smoke - Any musket era game.

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 07 October 2018, 05:15:24 PM
Ruler and Die - about the Tudors' propensity for messy executions.

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 07 October 2018, 09:24:49 PM
Drinkers and drunkards.

Anyway, enough about me. What was the question?
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 07 October 2018, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: Techno on 07 October 2018, 01:44:21 PM
....No...I'm not remotely going to put down what I thought of.

It would probably even make 'Orcs' blush....(Sorry...what am I saying ?...That's just about impossible.)

Cheers - Mr Sewer-brain


Like that is going to happen. Orcs, embarrassed.?  Ha!
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 07 October 2018, 10:14:23 PM
"Puke & Snot: Wargaming in the era of The Great Plague"
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 07 October 2018, 11:25:24 PM
Badly written rules and arguments.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Leon on 08 October 2018, 11:32:39 AM
Quote from: Norm on 07 October 2018, 03:18:22 PM
I think I like your idea of just calling them X and Y. They would of course work for any period.

:D

Quote from: Orcs on 07 October 2018, 04:42:52 PM
sh*t and Smoke - Any musket era game.

I quite like that one!
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Westmarcher on 08 October 2018, 12:34:11 PM
Powder & Plop ~ Warfare in the Age of Sail and Gunpowder

Bible & Throat ~ The 30 Years War and other Wars of Religion.

Cotton Buds & Techno Plasters ~ The War of Jenkins' Ear
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: mollinary on 08 October 2018, 04:22:03 PM
Pike and Pot - ECW
Pike and Peltast - Ancient Successors
Pike and Plaid - Flodden
Pike and Prejudice - The Wars of Religion

Musket and Morion - TYW
Matchlock and Minion - ECW
Marsin and Marlborough - WSS
Mitre and Musket - WAS/SYW

Billhooks and Balls - 15th Century Warfare
Byzantines and Bashi-Bazouks - The Fall of Constntinople
Berbers and Bedouin - French Foreign Legion
Brigs and Barquentines - Coastal Warfare in the Age of Sail

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: paulr on 08 October 2018, 06:49:59 PM
 =D> =D> =D>

"For King" & "Parliament"  ;)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Chris Pringle on 08 October 2018, 07:59:00 PM
How about this range of rules, each tailored to a particular segment of the wargamer market:

Pettifogging & Pedantry
Dither & Dally
Beer & Bombast
Heads Down & Mindless Charge

And geared especially to denizens of this forum

Facetiousness & Frivolity
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Leon on 08 October 2018, 08:54:40 PM
I'm liking the alliteration going on here!
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: mollinary on 08 October 2018, 09:16:28 PM
The theme I was working on was actually existing abbreviations, so:

P&P. postage and packing

M&M  chocolate buttons

B&B.  bed and breakfast.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Leon on 08 October 2018, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: mollinary on 08 October 2018, 09:16:28 PM
The theme I was working on was actually existing abbreviations, so:

... I'd not noticed that bit...  :-[  I'm not going to do very well when the new series of Only Connect kicks off...!
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 09 October 2018, 06:57:28 AM
Centurions and Aztecs - competing gamers try and get their favourite range released by the best miniature figure supplier in the world.  B)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Chris Pringle on 09 October 2018, 07:38:10 AM
The ideal super-detailed WWII tank rules for us trackheads and rivetcounters:

Protractor & Percentile Dice

(You only need two tank models to play the game, but it will take you a whole weekend.)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 09 October 2018, 10:56:11 AM
Distractions & Denizens - gaming the Pendraken Forum :D
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Westmarcher on 09 October 2018, 12:31:26 PM
Boots & Saddles .... American Plains Wars

Blades & Saddles  .... the spoof version

Mills & Boom ..... romantic trench warfare

Mortar & Pistol ... siege warfare for chemists

Assault & Petard ...... siege warfare for foodies

Pick & Mix .... siege warfare in Ireland

Grab & Run ..... me and my coat ......
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Terry37 on 09 October 2018, 01:45:19 PM
I'd share my ideas, but I'm laughing too hard just reading what's already been posted. So I'll just Read & Chuckle!

Terry
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 09 October 2018, 02:49:52 PM
Bonnie and Clyde - The Young Pretender's exploits in the Glasgow area.

Blame Westmarcher. He put me up to it!

Rock and Roll - a dice based game amongst neanderthals. (i.e. any game played by Forum members)

Boosey & Hawkes - Drunken revelry with falcons
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 09 October 2018, 02:58:08 PM
Tea & Symphony - adding the RASC and ENSA to your WW2 games
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Matt J on 09 October 2018, 03:03:48 PM
Rock & A Hard place - game of marital challenges
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Chad on 09 October 2018, 04:17:08 PM
Trumpets & Drums - battles between marching bands
Swords, Shields & Sheilas -Australian Medieval Rules (with apologies where necessary)
Tanks & More Tanks - for gamers who think Flames of War does not take up enough table space
Muskets & Magic - the ONLY rules that guarantee Napoleon victory at Waterloo
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: ronan on 09 October 2018, 06:12:32 PM
Beere & Bretzels ?
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: O Dinas Powys on 10 October 2018, 03:09:52 PM
X, Y & Z - for tactical combat in 3 dimensions  :-B
X, Y, Z & n - for when 3 dimensions just aren't enough...  8-}
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Maenoferren on 10 October 2018, 03:25:21 PM
Love and Marriage... wars of Matilda and Stephen
Chalk and cheese, the imaginations attack on Dover by the brigands of Wenslydale
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 10 October 2018, 03:46:05 PM
Exe and Wye - River battles in the West Country.

Ex and Why? - The struglles of a modern relationship

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: OldenBUA on 10 October 2018, 04:18:44 PM
Bullet lists & Subclauses (unless overruled otherwise) : linear warfare in the age of Barker
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 11 October 2018, 06:38:40 AM
Feather and Stone - a 1960s rule set for early Native American conflict

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 11 October 2018, 09:07:57 AM
Bend & Stretch - not a ruleset but a range of accessories which includes adjustable rulers, loaded dice and the Power Gamers Manual  :)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: d_Guy on 11 October 2018, 03:29:59 PM
This is a fun thread! Highly creative. I give special props to fsn for his geographical psychodrama post.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 13 October 2018, 08:25:41 PM
S & M - The game where both players take a thrashing.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Leman on 14 October 2018, 08:29:53 AM
Xenophon and Yoda: Hoplite Warfare in a Star Wars universe, for the metallica t-shirt gamer who finds 8000 years of Earthb history just not compelling enough.  ;)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 14 October 2018, 09:30:01 AM
Zed and Zee - Wars for the Soul of the English language

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 14 October 2018, 12:51:15 PM
The Lost & The Damned - AVBCW (Post Brexit Edition)

or possibly

Incensed & Insensible

:o
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 14 October 2018, 12:57:13 PM
Lee & Grant - the 2nd American Civil War using M3 tanks.

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 19 October 2018, 09:22:40 PM
The Bold and the Beautiful.
Orcs vs Me
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: FierceKitty on 20 October 2018, 12:36:06 AM
 ;D
Quote from: OldenBUA on 10 October 2018, 04:18:44 PM
Bullet lists & Subclauses (unless overruled otherwise) : linear warfare in the age of Barker

But it should include at least one mathematical error, two or more grammatical mistakes, a pointless capitalisation, and a bit of irritating Latin where a universally-used English word already exists. Authenticity would also benefit from two paragraphs of self-praise, and three Procrustean pages explaining why reality is at fault if the rules don't correspond to the records.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: FierceKitty on 20 October 2018, 12:46:11 AM
Love thy Neighbour - rules for the Crusades, with supplements for the Wars of Religion.

Make not War on the People of the Book - special Muslim edition of above.

Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: FierceKitty on 20 October 2018, 12:48:17 AM
Get the #$%^ off the table! - house rules if there are any cats on the premises.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Orcs on 20 October 2018, 01:08:16 AM
Quote from: Last Hussar on 19 October 2018, 09:22:40 PM
The Bold and the Beautiful.
Orcs vs Me

;D ;D

neither I nor MRs Orcs would want me described as beautiful
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Orcs on 20 October 2018, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 13 October 2018, 08:25:41 PM
S & M - The game where both players take a thrashing.

Whips and chains - Expansion set to include the Spanish Inquisition. 
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Orcs on 20 October 2018, 01:11:45 AM
just thought of one set of rules especially for Roman Catholic Clergy, but even I do not feel I can publish this on the forum!!   :d :d
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 20 October 2018, 11:54:14 AM
Knife & Fork - rules for gladiatorial combat between a Dimachaerus and a Retiarius


(https://gladiatoria.com/_assets/classes/detail-retiarius.jpg)(https://gladiatoria.com/_assets/classes/detail-dimachaerus.jpg)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 20 October 2018, 01:27:04 PM
War & peas - fighting among the allotments
Romeo & Juliett - Soviet submarine combat
Mills & Boom - grenades at the Romance Writers guild
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 20 October 2018, 01:41:29 PM
Fish & Ships: Gaming the Cod War

and it's expansion

Crash! Bang! Scallop!: Actions off the French Coast

also

Stars & Bars: gaming celebrity pub crawls

Stars & Stripes: the game of celebrity S&M aka Dungeons & Dominas
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: fsn on 20 October 2018, 02:48:38 PM
Tigers and Tigers: Big cat hunting from an AFV
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: O Dinas Powys on 20 October 2018, 08:17:27 PM
Calvin & Hobbes: a seat-of-the-pants, gonzo, adventure system featuring dinosaurs, spaceships, snow goons, imagination and absolutely nothing hiding under the bed!
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Leman on 21 October 2018, 07:21:19 AM
Bodgeit and Scarper - rules for small scale objective raids followed by safe extraction.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Chris Pringle on 21 October 2018, 07:35:05 AM
Coin Toss & Short Straw. Fast play rules with innovative combat resolution mechanisms that dispense with the irrelevant tactical factors that complicate other rulesets. Useable for all periods and genres. Suits any basewidth. Fight a battle in 10 seconds, a whole campaign in a minute!
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Jim Ando on 21 October 2018, 04:34:58 PM
Warhammer 40k.
The ongoing battle between new editions and not being able to afford any of it.

Jim
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 21 October 2018, 04:48:59 PM
Balls & Racket - in the grim darkness of the far future .... :D :D :D
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Sandinista on 21 October 2018, 10:14:44 PM
List and Maxi-list a GW style game
For King and Fighting - any period rules

Cheers
Ian
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 21 October 2018, 10:28:12 PM
Flintlock exchanges during the age or reason:

Cock and (let fly your) Balls.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Orcs on 09 November 2018, 12:38:43 AM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 20 October 2018, 12:48:17 AM
Get the #$%^ off the table! - house rules if there are any cats on the premises.

When I play at one of my feinds houses the cat often gets on the table to "watch" . Just sits there watching us play.  I think it because we ae not giving them the attention they think they deserve.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 09 November 2018, 08:44:42 AM
Typical cat. Surprised they dont start playing with the dice !
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 12 January 2019, 03:27:44 PM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 09 November 2018, 08:44:42 AM
Typical cat. Surprised they dont start playing with the dice !

Never play dice with cats.
I saw that documentary about a character named Top Cat, a dubious player.
Don't play them at cards either.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Fenton on 12 January 2019, 04:41:16 PM
Yup as everyone knows there related to cheetahs
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Westmarcher on 12 January 2019, 06:56:47 PM
 :D :D :P

Did I ever mention that in one game, my opponent's dog stole one of my units?  :o
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: lowlylowlycook on 13 January 2019, 12:25:34 AM
I'm afraid unless someone has had a unit eaten by a croc, Florida golfers will always have better "Pet or wild animal interfered with my game" stories.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 January 2019, 01:01:14 AM
Friends were in Africa. He a missionary and teaching at the local university, she a teacher in the local school. They have three boys, all under ten at the time. They have taken the decision that the family will live simply, given the poverty of the local villagers, so children's toys are basic and scarce in the house. No TV or computers either.

Big event at the university the night before, Mum & Dad home late having walked the last couple of kilometres of the trip. So, they are keen to have a lie in.

Kids, having been sent to bed at a ridiculously early time, in their estimation, by the babysitter are up and crashing around the house.

Mother yells to the kids that Mummy & Daddy would like a bit of peace and quiet.

Loud bickering among the children over who woke their parents.

Mother: Why don't you go outside in the garden and play ball.
Eldest boy: A cat has the football
Mother: For goodness sake, just chase it away
Eldest boy: It 's a VERY big cat

Mother wanders over to the window still half asleep to shoo this cat away .... sees pride of lions on lawn .... suddenly wide-awake mother realises all that separates children from lions is a dozen or so yards of grass and a few millimetres of glass .... hurtles downstairs, grabs startled children by scruffs of necks and drags them upstairs and proceeds to barricade the door with furniture.

Pride moseys off an hour or two later. Football in the garden not a thing for some time thereafter.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 13 January 2019, 09:14:57 AM
Local rule on African golf course - Players may remove their ball from Hippo footprints without penalty.

IanS 
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Techno on 13 January 2019, 09:52:55 AM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 13 January 2019, 01:01:14 AM
Pride moseys off an hour or two later. Football in the garden not a thing for some time thereafter.

:o :o :o :o :o
EEEK !!

Quote from: ianrs54 on 13 January 2019, 09:14:57 AM
Local rule on African golf course - Players may remove their ball from Hippo footprints without penalty.

I've got a feeling that there's a golf course, in the 'States, where they have a local rule concerning alligators, where you're allowed to move your ball...or even play a different one, if your shot comes within a certain distance of said alligator.....Florida ?

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 13 January 2019, 09:56:43 AM
Camping in France in the 80s, and my mum woke us up one morning with "Bill [my dad] there's a llama outside the tent."

OK, not a lion, but this was Brittany
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Techno on 13 January 2019, 10:39:28 AM
A damn good tale !!  ;D ;D ;D

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Leman on 13 January 2019, 11:10:42 AM
Quote from: Fenton on 12 January 2019, 04:41:16 PM
Yup as everyone knows there related to cheetahs
Everyone who knows in that place is related to a cheetah???  :o Wow! isn't evolution wonderful.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 January 2019, 11:28:58 AM
Quote from: Leman on 13 January 2019, 11:10:42 AM
Everyone who knows in that place is related to a cheetah???  :o Wow! isn't evolution wonderful.

It is indeed, though strictly speaking we're all related to cheetahs ... however distantly. Perhaps "there" was a typo and he meant "here"? :)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Leman on 13 January 2019, 04:28:21 PM
This could run and run.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Orcs on 13 January 2019, 08:06:19 PM
Quote from: Leman on 13 January 2019, 04:28:21 PM
This could run and run.

But only in short high speed bursts
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: paulr on 13 January 2019, 09:57:49 PM
Quote from: Orcs on 13 January 2019, 08:06:19 PM
But only in short high moderate speed bursts

FTFY ;D
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: MooseDontBounce on 05 April 2019, 06:25:23 PM
Favorite rules name was the old medieval set, 'Blood & Snot'.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: DFlynSqrl on 30 April 2019, 01:07:11 AM
Shoot & Skiddadle - a game of very very brief gun fights in the American Wild West
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 30 April 2019, 01:13:42 AM
Quote. But only in short high moderate speed bursts

This is Orcs we're talking about here.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: chrishanley on 03 April 2020, 05:04:58 PM
Fishy English Civil War Rules:- Pike and Lobster
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 03 April 2020, 05:47:37 PM
Quote from: chrishanley on 03 April 2020, 05:04:58 PM
Fishy English Civil War Rules:- Pike and Lobster

This forum needs a 'Like' button.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: hammurabi70 on 03 April 2020, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: Leon on 07 October 2018, 01:30:40 PM
There seems to be a lot of rulesets called some variation on the X & Y theme, like Fire & Fury, Badgers & Burrows, Oak & Iron, Sword & Spear, etc.  If you were going to launch your own rules, what X & Y name would you give them?  The less sensible the better...!

Actually that is just one strand; it seems single phrase concepts are also all the rage: Rommel, Blucher, Chamberlain, Maurice.  Our own choice is for X to Y where X is the first well known battle in the period and Y is the last: Arras to the Ardennes.  There is some humour in there but really designed to be informative rather than the light entertainment envisaged in the OP.

Quote from: MooseDontBounce on 05 April 2019, 06:25:23 PM
Favorite rules name was the old medieval set, 'Blood & Snot'.

English Civil War is medieval?
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 08 May 2020, 07:29:58 PM
Quote from: hammurabi70 on 03 April 2020, 06:18:50 PM
English Civil War is medieval?

Well .... pikes, armoured cavalry, castle under siege, the great and the good raising their retainers and leading them off to the wars? Could well be! :)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Ithoriel on 08 May 2020, 07:37:57 PM
How about a couple of topical rulesets?

AVBCW - A Viral Brexit Civil War

or

Lock & Load - lock down your house and load up on groceries. A 7TV (http://www.crooked-dice.co.uk/wp/rules/7tv-2nd-edition/) version of Supermarket Sweep! :)
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Sandinista on 08 May 2020, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 08 May 2020, 07:37:57 PM
Lock & Load - lock down your house and load up on groceries. A 7TV (http://www.crooked-dice.co.uk/wp/rules/7tv-2nd-edition/) version of Supermarket Sweep! :)

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 09 May 2020, 02:44:59 PM
RPG set - Twitter and Trolls
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 09 May 2020, 02:58:12 PM
No doubt involving 140 charater messages via a computer app ?
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: hammurabi70 on 11 May 2020, 08:11:50 AM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 08 May 2020, 07:29:58 PM
Well .... pikes, armoured cavalry, castle under siege, the great and the good raising their retainers and leading them off to the wars? Could well be! :)

My experience of the rules was purely ECW; perhaps they used the same title and general concepts for different periods.

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=272052
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: toxicpixie on 11 May 2020, 09:45:44 AM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 08 May 2020, 07:37:57 PM
How about a couple of topical rulesets?

AVBCW - A Viral Brexit Civil War

or

Lock & Load - lock down your house and load up on groceries. A 7TV (http://www.crooked-dice.co.uk/wp/rules/7tv-2nd-edition/) version of Supermarket Sweep! :)

Reminds me of Shadowrun's in the book starter "adventure" where our heroes stop off at the "not-a-kwikee-mart" for some snacks for their run, and walk into a gang fight/robbery!
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Last Hussar on 28 April 2023, 08:22:39 PM
Quote from: Leman on 13 January 2019, 04:28:21 PMThis could run and run.

Dear reader, it didn't.
Title: Re: X & Y?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 28 April 2023, 10:29:47 PM
At least not with scissors