I'm looking for a Pz III with the short 5cm gun & no extra armour - is that GRV7 Panzer III J ? The early J models had the short 5cm, but I think they had the armour. Do any of the codes represent the short 5cm with no added armour?
Real world designations would be F or G, and a few E's. H onward were up-armoured. Early J's had the short 50's, but most have the L60.
IanS
When you say extra armour do you mean frontal, or the shurzen skirts?
Surely the extra frontal armour from a F to a J is invisible in 10mm?
Quote from: Dr Dave on 26 June 2018, 01:20:40 PM
When you say extra armour do you mean frontal, or the shurzen skirts?
Surely the extra frontal armour from a F to a J is invisible in 10mm?
I mean the spaced armour added to the turret & hull front - it is visible, it's on the ones I already have. It looks like an extra 'box' added to the front, maybe 6" to a foot thick (the box that is, not the actual armour...) As IanS says, it SHOULD be on a J, but as there's no PD code for an earlier Pz III with a 5cm than the J, I thought I'd ask before going elsewhere.
Pictures of the various PZII models here, if that helps
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzer_III.php
I have a book on Panzers in Tunisia which shows lots of them with the extra gun mantlet armour removed. IIRC this was due to weight issues, but would have to check when I get home.
But can anyone say for sure about the PD minis? I already have up-armoured versions, I want something visually distinct from them.
From memory only the M (50mm L60) and the N (75mm L24) carry the Shurzen skirts you describe on your model. Hence, whatever it is, it shouldn't be a J - it's either GRV10 (M) or 11(N).
If I was looking for a PzIII, short 50mm and no skirts (and I've not seen the models) I'd go for GRV7.
What part of WW2 are you wanting it for?
Dave - the extra amour was welded on to the existing hull, and left a distinct lip - which is visible on the models I've got. Frankly don't worry about it for gaming purposes unless you are using a mix of types...
Ours is the long 50mm with no skirts, so not quite what you're looking for. You could chop the barrel down?
Quote from: Leon on 26 June 2018, 03:12:59 PM
Ours is the long 50mm with no skirts, so not quite what you're looking for. You could chop the barrel down?
It's not the skirt armour I mean, it's the additional armour added to the hull front plate & mantlet. But if it's got the long 50, it'll have the armour (and in fact it's probably the ones I have already).
Quote from: Dr Dave on 26 June 2018, 02:24:08 PM
What part of WW2 are you wanting it for?
Barbarossa, '41-'42. I already have Pz III with long 5cm and additional mantlet armour, probably J or L types.
Does anyone have any pics of PD GRV7?
Quote from: ianrs54 on 26 June 2018, 02:36:35 PM
Dave - the extra amour was welded on to the existing hull, and left a distinct lip - which is visible on the models I've got. Frankly don't worry about it for gaming purposes unless you are using a mix of types...
It's visible in 10mm!?
My defence for not noticing it is that according the Jentz the British Army never clocked the difference either.
Quote from: Dr Dave on 26 June 2018, 04:41:06 PM
It’s visible in 10mm!?
There's definite visible differences between the minis I have now and the early 5cm Panzer III pictures I have seen. It's not just the additional exytra thickness of armour that was added early on, these minis have the additional spaced armour on the front plate & mantlet.
Here's a handy web page. The ones I have are the upper type, the ones I want are the lower. After the years since purchase, I can't say which mini code the ones I have are, or even be certain they're PD.
http://panzeriiilordofblitzkreig.blogspot.com/2015/09/panzer-iii-colours-4.html