Hi all,
I've recently backed Iain from Warflags rather splendid Kickstarter for Jacobean Scots, and wanting to play more Black Powder, away from 1870.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/553354256/28mm-1745-jacobite-rebellion-miniatures?ref=user_menu
and then realised three salient points:
1) I have no idea about this period at all.
b) It means painting more tartan
iii) I hate lists
4) It's 28mm.
So, gentlemen, where (apart from Outlander) do I start?
Read Duffy's book on the '45 (old and revised editions), also my old pal Murray Pittock published 'Culloden' recently which I have and highly recommend. Fitzroy McLeans 'The '45' is good also.
Thanks Cameronian
Duffy's 'Fight for a Throne; the '45 Reconsidered' is the place to start. '1745 A Military History' by Stuart Reid is also an excellent book.
Nerd alert: :-B.
'Jacobean' is not the same as 'Jacobite'. The former refers to the era of James VI and I 1567–1625. The supporters of the 'Old and Young Pretenders', roughly 1688 to 1746 were Jacobites, referring to the Latin version of the deposed king James' name.
Where this is of some relevance is that if you order 'Jacobean' figures from someone, you won't get those for the '45, but something entirely different.
Hiya Lemmey
Depending on the scale (skirmish/tactical/large scale action) that you intend to play Test of Battle do a very comprehensive 2 volume Jacobite Rebellion campaign written by Frank Chadwick
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RU-04
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RU-05
Quite a bit of background information as well as uniform and organisational details for both sides, including the French and Dutch units involved in the campaign. They are intended for their Volley and Bayonet rules, but they are easily adopted to other rulesets as well.
Cheers
Peter
Quote from: SV52 on 09 May 2018, 08:50:59 AM
Nerd alert: :-B.
'Jacobean' is not the same as 'Jacobite'. The former refers to the era of James VI and I 1567–1625. The supporters of the 'Old and Young Pretenders', roughly 1688 to 1746 were Jacobites, referring to the Latin version of the deposed king James' name.
Where this is of some relevance is that if you order 'Jacobean' figures from someone, you won't get those for the '45, but something entirely different.
Ohhh thanks
Quote from: pierre the shy on 09 May 2018, 10:28:18 AM
Hiya Lemmey
Depending on the scale (skirmish/tactical/large scale action) that you intend to play Test of Battle do a very comprehensive 2 volume Jacobite Rebellion campaign written by Frank Chadwick
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RU-04
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RU-05
Quite a bit of background information as well as uniform and organisational details for both sides, including the French and Dutch units involved in the campaign. They are intended for their Volley and Bayonet rules, but they are easily adopted to other rulesets as well.
Cheers
Peter
Now that is a great pointer, thanks Pierre
Quote from: pierre the shy on 09 May 2018, 10:28:18 AM
Hiya Lemmey
Depending on the scale (skirmish/tactical/large scale action) that you intend to play Test of Battle do a very comprehensive 2 volume Jacobite Rebellion campaign written by Frank Chadwick
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RU-04
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RU-05
Quite a bit of background information as well as uniform and organisational details for both sides, including the French and Dutch units involved in the campaign. They are intended for their Volley and Bayonet rules, but they are easily adopted to other rulesets as well.
Cheers
Peter
Dutch ?
I imagine the 'Dutch' units are referring to the British units brought back from Holland/Flanders.
Think they were actual Dutch units that had been part of the garrison of some fortress* in the Austrian Netherlands that had surrendered with full Honours of War. The catch was that they had to give their parole that they would not take up arms against France again during the present unpleasantness. However, with Britain short of troops to meet the Jacobite threat, they were therefore conveniently available for shipping over to the UK to re-inforce the Government forces at home. What they would have done if the had met the Royal Ecossais, I don't know. :-B
* can't recall which fortress or where I read this - likely Osprey's Culloden or Fontenoy(?)
Quote from: Westmarcher on 09 May 2018, 09:00:21 PM
Think they were actual Dutch units that had been part of the garrison of some fortress* in the Austrian Netherlands that had surrendered with full Honours of War. The catch was that they had to give their parole that they would not take up arms against France again during the present unpleasantness. However, with Britain short of troops to meet the Jacobite threat, they were therefore conveniently available for shipping over to the UK to re-inforce the Government forces at home. What they would have done if the had met the Royal Ecossais, I don't know. :-B
* can't recall which fortress or where I read this - likely Osprey's Culloden or Fontenoy(?)
Tournai. After the defeat at Fontenoy (11 May 1745), the Dutch garrison at Tournai surrendered on 19 June. The terms of the capitulation meant they could not take up arms against France or her allies until 1 January 1747 and so they were eventually sent to England to release British troops for active service either on the Continent or ultimately against Bonny Prince Charlie.
From "Cumberland's Culloden Army 1745–46"
© Osprey Publishing
www.ospreypublishing.com
"The Dutch
Aside from the 16-strong troop of Hungarians and Germans who formed the Duke of Cumberland's personal bodyguard, there were two
major foreign contingents serving alongside the British army during the campaign. The first was Dutch, provided under a treaty of mutual
assistance between Great Britain and the United Provinces, which obliged each to come to the aid of the other in case of threatened or
actual invasion. The previous year a Dutch contingent had already spent some time in England in anticipation of a French invasion that never
came. They had returned to Holland in June 1744, but in response to the actual Jacobite emergency in 1745 a fresh contingent was
demanded. Unfortunately the situation in Flanders was equally precarious, as the French steadily exploited their victory at Fontenoy in
May, and the only regiments that could be spared were those that had been paroled after the surrender of Tournai, on condition of not
fighting against the French army or its allies for 12 months. Commanded by Prinz Moritz of Nassau, who apparently still
considered himself under a cloud after rendering up the fortress, and by MajGen Carol Diederik Schwanenburg, the contingent comprised five
Dutch regiments – Braekel, Holstein-Gottorp, Tissot van Patot, Villattes,and La Rocque, each of two battalions – and a Swiss regiment, Hirtzel,
with three battalions, together with a contingent of artillerymen but no cavalry. Some of the Dutch units were originally landed in the Thames
near London, but eventually all were concentrated at Newcastle upon Tyne, where they formed a major part of Field Marshal Wade's army. The
Dutch regiments appear to have been quite weak; originally reckoned to be 9,000 strong at the commencement of the siege of Tournai, only 5,300
men had marched out on 9 June. Allowing for artillery and other ancillary personnel, this would imply an average strength of just under
400 men per battalion, although there are indications that the three Swiss battalions may have been stronger than their Dutch counterparts.
Initially they were welcomed, especially at Berwick, where one of the battalions of the Regiment La Rocque stiffened the rather lonely
garrison of 5 companies of Lee's 55th Foot. However, once the novelty wore off they soon began to be compared unfavourably with British
troops, though opinion was divided as to whether the Dutch or Swiss were worse. In part this was due to their poor physical condition; they
lacked shoes, and initially even horses for the general officers, let alone any more substantial logistic support. Consequently, they were soon
being accused of robbery, riot and affray; they were also blamed for a quite understandable lack of enthusiasm when Wade's attempted march
across the Pennines foundered in deep snow at Hexham. Sickness was also rife amongst them, and by 11 December they were down to just
2,500 effectives.
Ultimately, however, a far more serious problem was their legal status. From the very beginning the French government had protested about
their employment against the Jacobites, especially as by the Treaty of Fontainbleu on 5 November 1745 the rebels were formally declared to
be French auxiliaries. In early December, when Lord John Drummond arrived in Scotland at the head of a small French expeditionary force,
one of his first acts was to send a letter to Nassau demanding the immediate withdrawal of the Dutch contingent. At first Nassau and
Schwanenberg were inclined to disregard the French demands, or at least (as Schwanenberg offered) to continue serving as garrison troops
at Newcastle upon Tyne; but in the end it was decided to honour the letter of their parole terms and send the Dutch home – in the same ships
that brought their replacements, a contingent of Hessian troops." -
Quote from: mad lemmey on 09 May 2018, 11:49:00 AM
Now that is a great pointer, thanks Pierre
I have both volumes and they are very good, but ended up going for 1645 period rather than 1745.
Thanks to those who outlined the Dutch participation in the rebellion.
Quote from: pierre the shy on 10 May 2018, 07:30:23 AM
I have both volumes and they are very good, but ended up going for 1645 period rather than 1745.
As have I, while 1745 is MUCH better documented, 1645 has greater scope. :)