Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: sunjester on 02 May 2018, 11:54:24 AM

Title: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: sunjester on 02 May 2018, 11:54:24 AM
This is sort of related to painting as it's a question about photographing the finished figures.

I'm just using a crap point and shoot camera and have not knowledge (or skill) about photography. My pictures, mainly with a flash, seemed somehow "wrong", slightly darker and there was certainly something off about the colours compared with the real thing, especially greens. I tried manipulating the images in various ways and found (mainly by trial and error) that if I knocked the blue tone down by 10% or so, the greens now looked better and the whole image seemed a bit brighter.

I'm happier with the results now, but it's a bit of a pain to manipulate each picture separately. Can any more knowledgeable soul suggest why this should be and what I could do to correct the camera?

Thanks
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: jimduncanuk on 02 May 2018, 11:57:34 AM
Turn off the flash

Use as much !ight as possible, indirect if possible.

Daylight is good.

A tripod will help.

Using a 2 second timer helps avoid camera shake.
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: toxicpixie on 02 May 2018, 12:01:09 PM
My photo's are still pretty carp, but a cheap collapsible light box can be had off Aliexpress for about a fiver shipped - has an LED strip at the top and a changeable white or black background and can give a much better "all round" light source effect" without the flash throwing everything off.
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: Leon on 02 May 2018, 12:23:56 PM
Good lighting is the most important thing for me, I use a homemade light box with a pure white lamp when I'm taking the website/sculpts pics.  Most cameras these days will have some type of macro function on them which will help get a clearer shot.  After that it's keeping the camera steady using the tripod/delay tips the other guys have mentioned. 

I do still have to edit them in Photoshop though, usually just to bring the lighting up a tad and make the colours pop a bit.
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: Glorfindel on 02 May 2018, 02:30:38 PM
I have spent quite a bit of time trying to get this right (with an old Cannon A620)
and have finally managed to achieve something I am happy with.   I am not a
photographic expert by any means but have found the points below after lots
of trial and error.

The key points are bright light, no flash (both mentioned above), maximum
zoom out, use the 'macro' setting and a tripod if possible.

I have found this gives pretty good pictures of small scale figures (6mm &
10mm).   For example :

http://s761.photobucket.com/user/glorfindel-666/media/10mm%20Seven%20Years%20War/IMG_2683_zpsmmkzb4xk.jpg.html (http://s761.photobucket.com/user/glorfindel-666/media/10mm%20Seven%20Years%20War/IMG_2683_zpsmmkzb4xk.jpg.html)

http://s761.photobucket.com/user/glorfindel-666/media/10mm%20Seven%20Years%20War/IMG_2682_zps1awsku3c.jpg.html (http://s761.photobucket.com/user/glorfindel-666/media/10mm%20Seven%20Years%20War/IMG_2682_zps1awsku3c.jpg.html)


Feel free to have a look at the resulting pics on my Photobucket a/c :

http://s761.photobucket.com/user/glorfindel-666/library/?sort=3&page=1 (http://s761.photobucket.com/user/glorfindel-666/library/?sort=3&page=1)


Cheers,


Phil

Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: Leman on 02 May 2018, 04:59:05 PM
Do you keep your photos in a bowl, Toxic?
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: fsn on 02 May 2018, 05:25:30 PM
Have you got a white balance function?

My Olympus allows me to stick a piece of white paper in front of it and say "this is white". Then the camera remembers what white is and the colours come out quite well.

You can get a mini tripod for just a few quid, and I use the delay function - i.e. I take press the button and then a few seconds later it takes the photo. Avoids a bit of shake as you press down.

I also use a white box - I got it from Amazon for about £10 is a sale.


My photography is quite good  :D - my figures generallly aren't worth photographing.   :(
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: toxicpixie on 02 May 2018, 06:15:28 PM
Oh yes, mini-tripod! I have a cheap but very adjustable one, looks like something vaguely Gieger :D

Leman, my photo skills are a bit fishy ;)
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: fred. on 02 May 2018, 06:19:28 PM
Lots of good info above.

One extra tip, avoid a white background with point and shoot cameras. The white background will be what the light sensors pick up, and you will end up with some very underexposed photos, usually meaning some very dark minis against a bright white background. Its much easier to get a simple camera to get things right using a neutral toned background, or even a black one.

Second tip, pop a bit of white card in front of the figures, just out of shot, preferably at a slight angle. This will bounce a lot of light onto the front of the figures, which is the bit you are looking at.
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: sunjester on 02 May 2018, 06:47:20 PM
Thanks for the help everyone. I do usually use a small tripod and the 2 second delay option. I don't always remember to set the macro option, so I should try that more often.

I am more often photographing figures in mid-game, or at least on a gaming cloth rather than on a stark white background, so light boxes and the like are not really appropriate.

I will try playing around with lighting and not relying on the flash, but sometimes, like in the hall the club meets at, the light is not brilliant and I do need to use a flash.

Any thoughts as to why my camera seems to be adding too much blue tone? Could that be caused by the flash?
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: Last Hussar on 02 May 2018, 07:54:59 PM
I'm wondering if at him piece of material to diffuse the flash would help.

SJs camera is one of those the size of a pack of cards.
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: fred. on 02 May 2018, 08:21:27 PM
Macro option might help or not - I've never found it much help, but it will depend on the camera.

Flash is a problem at close range, most small cameras are optimised for taking pictures of people who are about 4-10' away. So the flash is setup for that distance. A diffuser on the flash would probably help, even just a bit of muslin or opaque plastic. The only problem is the camera is likely to be expecting more light (i.e. the un-diffused flash) so it may be a little under exposed, but its certainly worth a try.

The colours could be off because of the flash, or because of the green background which is common for most wargames tables. Again as the cameras are expecting to take pictures of people (a mix of colours) or landscapes (grass + sky + other colours) then the wall of green that is the background on a wargames table can throw the auto colour off.

If you need to use flash then get further away, so that the flash lights the figures, not washes them out. You can then always crop the photos to show the bit that matters. Most cameras are such high resolution that you can crop the picture significantly and still have a good sized photo to show online.

If you have a tripod, then switch the flash off, and just let the camera take a long exposure photo - just avoid knocking the table during this time!

If you have a modern phone, then I'd try using the camera on that, they are often very good.
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: Subedai on 02 May 2018, 08:57:23 PM
Natural light is the best.
Never use a white background, pastel shades are better.
Always use the delay option. I set my Canon for 10 secs to make sure.
Poundland flog mini tripods for...you've guessed it. 
Depending on how many pixies you have hidden inside, a macro is not really neccesary. I use a Canon program for adjusting -my pc is too old for anything but the earlier versions of Photoshop- which allows me to zoom in and the 15 mega's of tiny painters seem to get the focus okay.
A high f-stop will blur the background nicely.

That's my tuppence worth.
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: Matt J on 03 May 2018, 06:02:16 AM
In contrast to everyone else, I use fill flash close range on white background in light box. Increase contrast and brightness on the photo after.
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: paulr on 03 May 2018, 08:13:21 AM
Fill flash can work if you have enough control over it
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: fsn on 03 May 2018, 10:09:44 AM
You can put some greaseproof paper over the flash. This diffuses the light so it's not so harsh. 
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: Techno on 03 May 2018, 11:50:44 AM
I'm assuming the camera in question can't be fitted with a ring flash ?

That gets rid of any shadows...But it does tend to 'flatten' the shot.

I've got one of those for the 'SLR'....But I can never be bothered to use it.

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Photographing 10mm?
Post by: Norm on 03 May 2018, 01:56:34 PM
The size of flash is important. If it is an 'in camera' flash or a small cube thing (like mine), then you will get light close up on the subject, but MASSIVE fall off of light beyond the immediate subject. The flash if not variably powered can blow out the subject and can look harsh, but if photographing against light (i.e. a window is behind the subject) then fill in flash will probably be essential.

If you don't understand about white balance, then hunt down a good explanantion on Google and gain that knowledge, it is an essential ingredient as to how colours look in your picture - it is too involved to give it a cursory mention here, though if you are using flash, make sure that your white balance setting for flash is used and if using normal room lighting, use the 'light bulb' symbol. My most commonly used WB setting for green game cloths is 'shade' (no flash) in daylight.

read an online explanation about light metering to gain an understanding how a scene can report back different light values that can task many a metering system - though modern stuff is getting much better at doing all of this in the auto settings.

Finally - digital photography is not flattering to close up images of small scales, a sad truth , but through trial and error you will find a sweet spot.