My contact with the FPW started back in the late-70s when Heroics and Ross released their 6mm figures. I toyed with a variety of figure scales and rules over the next 25 years or so and along the way started using They Died for Glory with 15mm figures. The only real problems I had with the rules were the table size required (8'x5'), and the fixed number of figures to bases, as this was a figure removal and figures to weapon ratio game (eg when firing it is one D6 per 3 figures in the unit, rounding up or down). Not comfortable with basing my figures for just one set of rules, I settled on 3 figures to a one inch square base, giving a German battalion 6 bases and a French one four bases, using the logic that battalions usually fought understrength. Many games were fought with the French generally losing.
Then Bruce Weigle's 1870 came along, which brought my 6mm armies out of a long hibernation, and so did Piquet, which almost immediately replaced TDFG down the club. Another major change was the remodelling of the Pendraken 10mm FPW range and the 15s were sold off. Then BBB came along and at last a system was there to fight the largest FPW battles on a 6'x4' without spending weeks moving dozens upon dozens of battalions around.
[As an aside there is a 15mm Napoleonic game going on at the club currently. It's on an 8'x6' and to make a physical move of the troops would take at least 20 minutes to half-an-hour. Then of course there is the combat and morale to be carried out. I imagine this game could well be up for 6 weeks.]
BBB has given me immense fun and satisfaction over the last couple of years, but what about the game that has the small patrols clashing, or the small part of the battle that finally allows a division of the Guard with its artillery and cavalry to put in an appearance. I began to envisage playing two styles of game: the 6mm/2mm massive battle in its entirety, and the 10mm part of a large battle, the smaller battle or the clash of small groups of units. I discussed this with one of my regular opponents and his solution took me rather by surprise. Why not use They Died for Glory. It has individual battalions of varying strengths; it allows for different calibres of artillery, including siege guns; it has heavy and light cavalry, gradual destruction of buildings, the use of engineers, the application of different formations, troops are able, or forced, to go prone. I dug out my old copy and had a look. There were lots of optional rules to use for Franc Tireurs, naval troops, Prussian pioneers with explosives and so on. I also found a set of options originally published in WI which, among other things, enabled the German troops to form company and half battalion columns. Despite the depth of detail the rules mechanisms are not complex. BUT I wouldn't want to fight Gravelotte-St Privat or Le Mans using these rules.
I now looked at my collection of figures in 10mm and started to work out how to make the rules work for me. I had already started to rebase on one inch squares, but in 10mm three, or even four figures to that size base doesn't look good. I remember having read that even though units may initially be of different sizes, they would attempt to match each others frontage, so I decided to keep the number of bases per unit recommended by the rules, but give each base a combat strength. The rules give these strengths in number of figures per base, and there are only four to remember - 5,4,3,2 . Next losses would be shown by using casualty figures on 15mm circular bases. Prone units would be indicated by a prone figure (Red Eagle) on a 15mm x 20mm base with a red P painted on it, next to the unit. Artillery supply has been shown using 15mm circular bases with a symbol painted on for shot, shell or canister. I was surprised at the Prussians getting shot until I read of the French troops who found they were under a number of Krupp rounds that did not detonate. I mark troops requiring a morale test with a small GF9 explosion token. This still left the problem of table size. The rules, as written, are specifically for 15mm figures on an 8'x5' table. However, the base frontage is 1.5", but my frontage is 1". I bought a 6'x4' mat with a 20cm grid (approx. 8") and made some measuring sticks with 18mm "inches".
While putting all this together I have been giving the rules a test with two very small forces on a 15cm grid using cms instead of inches. After 7 moves (just over one hour's play) this very small fight between two forces each of 4 line infantry, 1 light infantry, 2 cavalry and 1 battery has resulted in the French having their artillery knocked out, but a Prussian unit in the first rout having taken a lot of chassepot fire from the chasseurs. There are also a number of prone infantry units on table waiting for an opportune moment to stand up and charge (or allow rear support to charge). The scenario is taken from Grant and Asquith's 'Scenarios for All Ages' featuring these two avant garde forces being exposed on either side of a river when early morning fog lifts.
I am also trying to post pictures again, but at this stage can just be hopeful.
Leman,
This sounds fab. Please keep me informed of your thoughts.
Attempting photo post:
(https://i.imgur.com/5Fwjr9g.jpg)
Quote from: Leman on 18 February 2018, 02:07:50 PM
Attempting photo post:
(https://i.imgur.com/5Fwjr9g.jpg)
Hi boss, after [IMG add width=800 then close the bracket?
WTF? :o Will try again ;D ;D ;D
It's a great photo btw
Many thanks Will.
[img width=8oo]https://imgur.com/uGDj3eP[/img]
This is looking Northwest to southeast. The French cavalry are attempting to outflank the Prussian jaeger in the small wood and take the third bridge. Meanwhile, the French attempting to take the footbridge have caused some damage to the Prussian defenders, but have taken hits themselves from the Prussian artillery on the hill, causing them to need a morale test, as shown by the explosion marker. The number 4 shows the French cavalry have taken their allotted two actions. Currently I am using my 1 and 2 counters to mark one side's actions and my 3 and 4 counters to mark the other. these will be replaced by 20mm rounded edge bases painted green on one side to mar 1 and red on the other to mark 2, as in if you move twice you can't shoot and similarly if you shoot twice you can't move. combinations are allowed.
The earlier photo, Southwest to Northeast shows the firefight to control the bridge in the village.The Prussian artillery are in a dominant position on the hill and there is a firefight for the wooden footbridge.In the distance to the south of the village is the routing/rallying first Prussian unit to break. They can re-enter the fray if they link up on the baseline with any other Prussian infantry reduced to at least 75%, but the new unit will have its morale value reduced from 6 to 4.
Oh dear, computers do make me feel a bit of a failure at times. Clearly still not doing something right.
(https://i.imgur.com/uGDj3eP.jpg)
Finally, after several goes at modify I realised I also had to get rid of some other brackets that were superfluous. Just hope I can remember how to do this for the future :)
Enjoyed your thoughts on rules and how you adapt your basing scheme (I use 1" squares as well).
I am particularly glad to see your photos again. Bravo!
I had a bit of a hiatus with Imgur, since when they have slightly changed things so that two more sets of [Img] appear, and it would seem that to post successfully these outer two must be removed and the width=800 must then be added to the remaining first bracket. One would think that there must surely be a much more straightforward way of doing things. It's almost as if barriers to posting are being deliberately set.
Nice piccie Leman
Good photos, Andy. :-bd
Quote from: Leman on 18 February 2018, 01:46:24 PM
The rules, as written, are specifically for 15mm figures on an 8'x5' table. However, the base frontage is 1.5", but my frontage is 1". I bought a 6'x4' mat with a 20cm grid (approx. 8") and made some measuring sticks with 18mm "inches".
Incidentally, I use 1" square bases too (for both my 10mm and 15mm units), and having a 6' x 3' dining table, I've also resorted to making my own custom made measuring sticks (after considering 8/12ths and 3/4 inch "inches" I finally settled for 20mm "inches") to play Field of Battle, which as you know is written for 28mm figures using imperial measurements and a standard base frontage of 1.5." :)
Yes indeed. I shall be using my 20cm gridded cloth and 18mm rulers to play FOB2. On consideration I may well use numbered discs with one cartoon disc on top to show ammo supply in TDFG, otherwise I would have to have 40 shot discs just for the artillery of one Prussian division.
Nice piccy !
Cheers - Phil
Great read. Ta for shariing. I've finally bitten the bullet and intend to but BBB and TDFG at Cavalier this weekend
That's interesting to hear, Sub. You may find something in TDFG that I have missed or misinterpreted. If you would like a copy of the WI additions let me know, it's only 3 pages.
AAR of the Battle of the Three Bridges
The scenario forces have already been described as small, matching avant-garde caught out on either side of a small river when early morning fog lifts. The Prussians however were much further along the road than the French after a random deployment roll of the dice. 15 turns (almost 4 hours) were allowed for this small action.
The Prussians made use of their advantage by detailing two battalions to occupy the village to control bridge one. The other two line units were detailed to seize the footbridge (2), whilst the light cavalry and jaegers were rushed to gain control of the third and most distant bridge. 1 and 3 were the most important to control. The cuirassiers were placed in reserve behind a small hill which dominated most of the battlefield, whilst the 4pdr battery was rushed to the top of the hill and deployed (with a range of 54" this was a remarkably good position).
The somewhat tardy French did at least have the protection of a large wood as they came onto the NE flank of the battlefield. Two line and the chasseurs were detailed to take and hold the village. The other two line were given the job of taking the footbridge, whilst the cavalry were to sweep around the Prussian left flank, from the NW of the battlefield, and take the third bridge. The artillery's job was to take out the Prussian battery.
From the beginning things went wrong for the French. As it reached the point to unlimber, just past the edge of the wood the French gun was knocked out by Prussian shells. Lesson learned - unlimber French guns under cover then hand push before firing. Even if the gun is knocked out it can still return fire as artillery fire is simultaneous at the start of each turn.
The French initially were able to make use of their superior chassepot range, although the Prussian artillery began to take a toll on the units heading for the footbridge. The initial Prussian positional advantage meant that they were able either to reach or cover all three bridges first. The French had to attack, which now put them in needlegun range, with no artillery support.
The French launched a two pronged attack on the village, the line units rushing to take on the Prussians who had loopholed the buildings, whilst the chasseurs provided some covering fire from the protection of the southern end of the wood. The Prussian general decided he had sufficient troops there to cope and directed his cuirassiers to go and support the hussars at the third bridge. By now the jaegers had crossed the river and occupied a small wood to its north on their left flank. The hussars stood watching the bridge from the south and the two battalions in the centre took and held the footbridge, bring their opposite numbers under harassing rifle and artillery fire.
By this stage one of the Prussian units in the village had been driven off, the second unit had taken its place in the buildings and the French line assaulted the village. The French cavalry prepared to attack the hussars, who fell back allowing the cuirassiers to take their place. The two French infantry units in the centre were now so battered that they failed morale and had to fall back. Nevertheless the French, after a hard fight occupied the village buildings on the southern side of the river, but it was all too late.
By move 10 the two Prussian line units in the centre were able to ignore the footbridge, one moved right to assist the troops in the village, the other moving left to assist the cavalry. The jaegers were also able to switch their attention to their left, flanking the French cavalry intent on capturing the bridge . A charge by the Chasseurs d'Afrique, across the shallow river, was met by a devastating counter-charge from the cuirassiers, such that the French cuirassiers were unable to assist, their path being blocked by a walled farm. They flowed to the left of this, only to be met by devastating flanking fire from one of the Prussian line units coming to the cavalry's assistance. Both the CDA and the French cuirassiers took massive casualties and fled the field.
In the village the second Prussian centre unit had launched an assault against the chasseurs, who had occupied the outlying buildings to the western side the village. The Chasseurs were wiped out, causing a morale check on the French line closest to them. They failed and fled, leaving only one remaining unshaken French unit in the village, the artillery turning its attention that way. The major decided discretion was the better part of valour and made an ordered withdrawal back to his baseline.
Verdict: the French could probably have done much better, but the way the battle unfolded seemed very like many of the historical battle descriptions I have read of the FPW.
TDFG Yahoo Group
Only discovered this yesterday. Until my request to join has been accepted I can't access it fully, but there appear to be scenarios on there. What I was able to download was a 10 page document of FAQs, amendments and clarifications and some more optional rules. this dates from 2006, so a good 14 years after the rules were originally published. I also noticed on the Caliver site that the rules are still available.
Incidentally, if searching for the Yahoo group make sure you type in they died for glory rather than TDFG, as this will take you to some very odd sounding groups.
Nice write up
Sounds a very interesting little battle :)
Here are the gaming paraphernalia I use with TDFG:
[img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4777/25853312097_cb70e0bf25_z.jpg[img]
Another cock up. In search of those flickr instructions I was given, which once again, owing to thye number of steps involved, I have forgotten.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4777/25853312097_cb70e0bf25_z.jpg)
Got it this time - it was the / in front of the last img I had omitted. Anyway the paraphernalia is as follows: ruler marked in 18mm inches, smoke marker (both home made), green and red first and second action markers (Warbases round corner bases painted on both sides), explosion to show a morale test needs to be taken Galeforce 9), out of command marker (Warbases out of leadership), prone markers (Red Eagle based on 15x20 bases), casualties on 15mm circular bases (both Pendraken), officers to mark rallying troops on 15mm bases (Pendraken), artillery ammo markers - 15mm Pendraken bases painted as shell, shot and canister which in the game sit on top of a Warbases numbered marker showing the amount of ammo left; currently showing the starter ammo for the Krupp guns.
Two shots of the upcoming game - A Vital Bridge - showing the overall field of battle and the Chasseurs a Cheval, patiently waiting until they are sacrificed to hold up the onrushing Prussian horde.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4777/25853310597_46e5c9952d_z.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4792/25853313197_94c19ba729_z.jpg)
Enjoyed the report and the look of the upcoming scenario. As I said recently, I like your figures and your board set-ups, stylish. Good to see the pictures flowing again!
Thanks Guy. I think I have the measure of flickr now. It was remembering which bit of the codes to delete that initially threw me. The flickr site looks promising for the future (currently I have used <1% of 1TB) so let's hope this one stays free. My first Album is The FPW in 10mm, if anybody wants to view it. I am keeping things public under my own name, Andy Fuller.
I didn't realise that I had not completed this posting re the scenario for TDFG. Anyway, the idea was that the French were trying to get a number of vital supply wagons away and then destroy the bridge before they could be captured by the pursuing Prussians. Here we see the Prussians waiting to start their attack and pursuit:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4781/25853312657_e31f4a1255_z.jpg)
The second photo shows the wagons ready to go, with the start of the bridge just visible at the bottom. Off the top arte the rest of the French troops waiting to hold up the Prussians.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4793/40014446484_78634af85d_z.jpg)
The game was played twice against two different opponents, who both took the French. The first managed to get everyone who survived and all the wagons across the bridge before successfully blowing it. The second nearly succeeded, but miscalculated his losses, leaving a battalion of chasseurs behind to delay the Prussians whilst the bridge was blown, only to discover that their subsequent capture took him over the threshold of acceptable losses.
Looks really good
Take care
Andy
Nice!