Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => 20th Century => Topic started by: Sunray on 10 January 2018, 09:02:54 PM

Title: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: Sunray on 10 January 2018, 09:02:54 PM
Watched the Sam Fuller Korean war movie "Fixed Bayonets" (1951) on a Freeview channel.   I was intrigued by the mock up Chinese tank.  Obviously no T34/85 was available  to the studio, so they tarted up an existing AVF chassis ?

Your task - source the image, identify the tank.  :o
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: petercooman on 10 January 2018, 11:20:26 PM
Could be wrong, but looks a bit like an m5a1 stuart? The pattern of the supports on the hull looks similar. Machine gun is in the same place as well.

(http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/0/01/Bayonets68_sm.jpg/450px-Bayonets68_sm.jpg)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/M5A1_Stuart_tank_%282008-08-09%29.jpg/800px-M5A1_Stuart_tank_%282008-08-09%29.jpg)
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: petercooman on 10 January 2018, 11:22:34 PM


Look from about 1.55
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: Sunray on 11 January 2018, 12:30:12 AM
Well that didn't take long !  Yes Peter, the hull is indeed an M5.  :-bd  Well spotted !
  I think the turret had been beefed up or modified. The gun looked more potent than a  37mm in the movie.  I may have to watch the movie again to freeze the frame on the turret.

The last action in the movie is the knocking out of the tank in a very narrow mountain pass.  This allows the rear guard to retreat.   It might be a useful scenario for Korea and Task Force Faith.

On  the Boxing day this year (yes, kids have images) I knocked up a 3ft long mountain range - the Stollen Heights - using second hand model railway tunnels purchased on ebay. Block off the tunnels with plastic card, add paths ad road between the mountains.  Worked well.





Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: FierceKitty on 11 January 2018, 04:59:10 AM
A boomerang looks more potent than a 37mm, mind you.
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: petercooman on 11 January 2018, 06:24:16 AM
Quote from: Sunray on 11 January 2018, 12:30:12 AM
Well that didn't take long !  Yes Peter, the hull is indeed an M5.  :-bd  Well spotted !
  I think the turret had been beefed up or modified. The gun looked more potent than a  37mm in the movie.  I may have to watch the movie again to freeze the frame on the turret.


Yes the turret looks a bit off. Maybe the original gun didn't look dangerous enough for the movie, and got upgunned?
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: fsn on 11 January 2018, 07:41:04 AM
Haven't seen the film but could it be the M8A1 - an M5 with a 75mm howitzer?
(http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/M8A1.png)
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: fsn on 11 January 2018, 07:55:44 AM
Quote from: fsn on 11 January 2018, 07:41:04 AM
Haven't seen the film but could it be the M8A1 - an M5 with a 75mm howitzer?
Nope. Not that.
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: petercooman on 11 January 2018, 07:58:19 AM
The turret shape itself seems irregular. Maybe it's a fake turret on a tank chassis?
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: fsn on 11 January 2018, 08:26:03 AM
I think you're right. Looks smaller that the original 37mm turret!
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: toxicpixie on 11 January 2018, 01:15:10 PM
Freeze framed at 1:56 that clip looks exactly like an M5, just with a couple of rails welded to the front glacis (maybe as steps, maybe for "extra protection", maybe just to make it look a bit different?).

The turret looks the right shape for the M5, just doesn't have track links on the sides or the clutter on top. It even has the slight "flare" around the bottom of the sloped side plates.

But the gun and mantlet look different - I wonder if they too the gun out, the mantlet off and just bodged a big piece of pipe in to replace it?! Might leave the flat mounting plate with the sighting hole that you can see on the top right? I don't know what the "behind the mantlet/raw turret" looks like, sadly but it's plausible. Or they could have taken out gun + mantlet + mounting, then just banged a big pipe in and welded on a square plate to cover the gap :D

Edit: Wait a minute, are you sure it's a real tank and not a model? The body looks subtly out of scale, and the close up shots of it firing and moving don't quite look real.... I can't remember if the film shows anyone actually in/on it/next to it...
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: Westmarcher on 11 January 2018, 02:30:58 PM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 11 January 2018, 04:59:10 AM
A boomerang looks more potent than a 37mm, mind you.

Nah! Too many friendly fire incidents.  :)
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: petercooman on 11 January 2018, 05:12:31 PM
The picture of the soldier with the ppsh? He's standing next to it.
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: toxicpixie on 11 January 2018, 05:29:21 PM
Hmm, yeah, fair 'nuff :D

It just looks so... weirdly *wrong* in the video. Maybe it's the sets throwing me off :D
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: Ace of Spades on 12 January 2018, 08:51:00 AM
Looks like an M5 hull with the earlier M3 'horseshoe' turret. Gun and mantlet have been changed indeed; probably to accomodate some blank firing 'tube' on a demilitarized turret?

Cheers,
Rob
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 January 2018, 10:45:15 AM
Quote from: Westmarcher on 11 January 2018, 02:30:58 PM
Nah! Too many friendly fire incidents.  :)

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What is that mock up tank in Fixed Bayonets ?
Post by: NTM on 12 January 2018, 12:46:36 PM
Quote from: Ace of Spades on 12 January 2018, 08:51:00 AM
Looks like an M5 hull with the earlier M3 'horseshoe' turret. Gun and mantlet have been changed indeed; probably to accomodate some blank firing 'tube' on a demilitarized turret?

Cheers,
Rob

M5 had the same turret as the M3A1. It changed on the M5A1.