Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 20 October 2017, 03:19:33 PM

Title: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 20 October 2017, 03:19:33 PM
Just trying to sort a modern game for next week, company scale. A 6' by 4' table at 10mm scale is how far in real life?
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: jimduncanuk on 20 October 2017, 03:26:36 PM
Surely that will depend on the ground scale of the rules in use.
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Matt J on 20 October 2017, 03:32:35 PM
roughly - 720 feet x 1,080 feet
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: fred. on 20 October 2017, 03:49:00 PM
Which just show how much compression of distances there is in wargame rules

I've played Chain of Command with 10mm figures, using the standard rules distances and forces. And you really get the empty battlefield feeling of modern combat. You really start to want all the little bumps and dips that real terrain has!
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Steve J on 20 October 2017, 05:13:51 PM
From memory in BKCII (and presumably CWC) it equates to roughly 1.7km x 1.2km, using a ground scale of 1cm = 10m.
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 20 October 2017, 05:18:25 PM
1" = 20yrds for Sabre Squadron (got home and looked at the rules). Therefore 72" would be 1440 yards.

Hmm... close in fighting then!  :d
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: fred. on 20 October 2017, 06:08:46 PM
CoC is 12" = 40 yards
1 foot = 120 feet
So somewhere between 10mm and 15mm figure scale
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Sunray on 20 October 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: fred. on 20 October 2017, 03:49:00 PM
Which just show how much compression of distances there is in wargame rules

I've played Chain of Command with 10mm figures, using the standard rules distances and forces. And you really get the empty battlefield feeling of modern combat. You really start to want all the little bumps and dips that real terrain has!

Fred has hit the reality button.  Humps and dips will check the line of sight. They don't need to be "mountains" .
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Aksu on 21 October 2017, 07:24:10 AM
Quote from: Sunray on 20 October 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Fred has hit the reality button.  Humps and dips will check the line of sight. They don't need to be "mountains" .
A WWI memoir I read said that new recruits suffered losses as they could not even see the shallow depressions that could still offer cover to veterans hitting the deck.
Cheers,
Aksu
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 21 October 2017, 09:53:37 AM
 Lemmy - Sabre Squadron is 1/2000, so 72" approximates to 2m = 4000m in scale
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 21 October 2017, 01:00:35 PM
Think that might be at 6mm, otherwise my Timecast Chieftain is about 100m long!
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: DanJ on 25 October 2017, 09:10:00 AM
For 10mm WW1 and WW2 games I generally work to a 1:1000 ground scale; this makes 1cm on the table equate to 10m in 'real life',  using this scale a 6x4 table is about 1.75km long by 1.2km deep.  If you stick to the metric system things are easier to work out  ;)
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Leman on 25 October 2017, 06:10:06 PM
300 years by 27 bananas. Surely this question relates to scale and only makes any real sense in 1:1 scale. In any other scale it is entirely dependent on the footprint of the unit. All rules define their scale in the intro (if they don't then bargepoles come to mind) so the rulebook solves the problem.
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: DanJ on 26 October 2017, 08:58:38 AM
QuoteSurely this question relates to scale and only makes any real sense in 1:1 scale.

At 1:1 I think a 6x6 table would equate to about 350 meters by 240 meters, those with a better grasp of maths may very well wish to correct me, perfect for an intimate skirmish game, maybe up to company or equivalent level but hardly massed battles which is what 10mm excels at.

In my experience, many modern rules specifically don't mention scale distance or time frames, because I suspect the writers don't want players comparing the table scales to real world distances.  The, possibly apocryphal example of this was/is a popular set of WW2 rules where a rifle had a range of 12" which wasn't long enough to shoot the length of a 1:1 model of Pegasus Bridge.
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: fsn on 26 October 2017, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: DanJ on 26 October 2017, 08:58:38 AM
At 1:1 I think a 6x6 table would equate to about 350 meters by 240 meters,

a 6x6 would surely be square?
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Raider4 on 26 October 2017, 07:35:10 PM
Quote from: Leman on 25 October 2017, 06:10:06 PM
All rules define their scale in the intro . . .

They do? Huh, must have missed that . . .

Seriously, most (all?) rulesets I have may suggest a recommended scale for the figures to use, but I don't think any of the ones I have suggest a ground scale?

Cheers, M.
--
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: DanJ on 27 October 2017, 08:22:42 AM
Quotea 6x6 would surely be square?

Doooh, curse you typoo fungers!

I may have meant 6x4
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: John Cook on 30 October 2017, 04:36:37 AM
Quote from: DanJ on 26 October 2017, 08:58:38 AM
At 1:1 I think a 6x6 table would equate to about 350 meters by 240 meters, those with a better grasp of maths may very well wish to correct me, perfect for an intimate skirmish game, maybe up to company or equivalent level but hardly massed battles which is what 10mm excels at.

In my experience, many modern rules specifically don't mention scale distance or time frames, because I suspect the writers don't want players comparing the table scales to real world distances.  The, possibly apocryphal example of this was/is a popular set of WW2 rules where a rifle had a range of 12" which wasn't long enough to shoot the length of a 1:1 model of Pegasus Bridge.

1:1 what?  One foot is roughly 300mm.  At 1 mm = 1 m a 6 foot  by 4 foot table would represent 1800 meters by 1200 meters.  That is the ground scale I use for my modern games using a 10 foot by 5 foot table, and where 1 figure = 1 man - essentially skirmishing on a grand scale.  Most heavy weapons range over the entire table and artillery shoots are from an 'off table' position.
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: John Cook on 30 October 2017, 04:37:40 AM
Quote from: jimduncanuk on 20 October 2017, 03:26:36 PM
Surely that will depend on the ground scale of the rules in use.


Yes it will, I would have thought, though ground scale in some rules seems to be less important than it once was.
Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: DanJ on 30 October 2017, 09:57:55 AM
Quote1:1 what?  One foot is roughly 300mm.  At 1 mm = 1 m a 6 foot  by 4 foot table would represent 1800 meters by 1200 meters.

Sorry, I may not have made myself clear, by 1:1 I meant that the table scale was the same as the figure scale i.e. a 10mm figure (1cm) represents a 6 foot tall person.  Allowing for figures being slightly more than 10mm and to make the sums a bit easier at 1:1 scale 10mm (a figure) would equal 2 meters on the table, I'm pretty sure would mean that the table scale would be 1:200.  A 6x4 table is approximately 183cm x 122cm so would give and a ground scale of 366 meters x 244 meters (I rounded it to 350 meters x 240 in my earlier post). 

QuoteAt 1 mm = 1 m a 6 foot  by 4 foot table would represent 1800 meters by 1200 meters

1mm = 1 m is a ground scale of 1:1000, this is a nice easy scale to remember, works well for almost all 10mm games and was the scale I proposed in my first post, although I rounded it slightly to 1750m x 1200m.  Your 10x5 table sounds great, we generally play on 6x4 tables for an evening but have managed weekend games on 8x4 and 12x6.

However at this scale and using 1 model equals 1 vehicle you do start to get into the issue of the vehicle being 5 time bigger than it should be.  To reduce the effect I mount my models on bases and use a vehicle ratio of 1:3 or 1:5 equating the single model and its base as being the area that 3 or 5 real vehicles would take up.  This is of course a compromise.


Title: Re: A 6x4 table at 10mm scale is how far?
Post by: Last Hussar on 30 October 2017, 10:27:44 PM
We use cms instead of inches for Black Powder, and call 1mm 1 pace (WSS) or 1 yard (ACW), which fits the weapons ranges and u it frontage.  That makes a 6x4 1800 by 1200 yards, call it a mile by ¾ of a mile