Gentlemen ...
I am conceiving a desire to visit the Battle of Sluys (read the Longbowman vs Crossbowman Osprey book) but can not find any cogs (10mm or smaller).
Outpostwargames services do some cogs in 1:1200. Are they any good?
Does anyone know of any other suppliers?
Now, since I know me, I'll probably be looking for some Dark Age (Early Medieval, Just After the Romans but before the Normans, Sub-Saxon Hegemony, whatever you want to call it) ships too.
I know naval warfare at the time consisted of tying ships together and fighting a land battle ... so 10mm scale would be fine.
All help gratefully appreciated.
If I don't get any, I'll probably be on the ACW next week, but I'll probably come back to cogs ... later
the little cogs are quite nice as you can even make out the fore and aft castle crenellations.
NavWar also has them (but no pics and may be what Outpost sells)
http://www.navwar.co.uk/nav/default.asp?MMID=78
( i'm perpetually looking for 16th - 17th c ~"n" scale models - most are too expensive!)
Heroics and Ros used to make a 6mm scale cog.
Thank FK. The cog seems to have gone but they seem to have a range of Viking ships. :-\
Quote from: fsn on 27 September 2017, 06:35:16 AM
Thank FK. The cog seems to have gone but they seem to have a range of Viking ships. :-
Not Sure Where your looking, they are in the "Renaissance section". Perhaps I could get you some spectacles from Amazon? :)
I used to have the galleys and they were quite nice. Antiquated order system, but the old guy (80) is a very nice bloke.
Northern European Cog
Code - RS08
£1.50
Mediterranean Cog
Code - RS09
£1.50
more info
Qty
From this blog:
http://dtbsam.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Medieval%20Naval (http://dtbsam.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Medieval%20Naval)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ruklFJloNYA/V815RuAz2lI/AAAAAAAACUg/gT7chQCnxH0_3e28IBfxcmz-5--lwZz-wCEw/s600/2016-09-02%2B15.55.57.jpg)
"Also recently finished, three 1/1200 cogs from Outpost Wargame Services. These were painted in the black hull / red sails scheme of Jeanne de Clisson,a noted French woman pirate who, following the execution of her husband by King Philip, terrorised French shipping in the English Channel for many years."
Some more
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QsUDt_OhBU8/Vb39kI8zcFI/AAAAAAAABjw/-bVsntpMlL0/s600/2015-08-02%2B10.39.49.jpg)
Navwar:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mtljOO7XGxE/VBMNiemLEPI/AAAAAAAABOw/EQHjJg_p9bs/s600/2014-09-07%2B16.17.36.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J_J3u1ud5fY/VBMN9cqcYLI/AAAAAAAABPI/B1dGkEwiHxc/s600/2014-09-07%2B16.18.28.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-j17SHWpuK_M/VBMOEy37n8I/AAAAAAAABPQ/wmSRkDoaAgI/s600/2014-09-07%2B16.18.40.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-du8PlA3Pc9w/VBMNlBPQURI/AAAAAAAABO8/uK43eyPdhoE/s600/2014-09-07%2B16.18.04.jpg)
As I say, not my blog so I don't know any of the details. But I remembered seeing them, so LINKed to them here.
Quote from: Orcs on 27 September 2017, 08:12:39 AM
Not Sure Where your looking, they are in the "Renaissance section". Perhaps I could get you some spectacles from Amazon? :)
I used to have the galleys and they were quite nice. Antiquated order system, but the old guy (80) is a very nice bloke.
I believe the Viking ships fsn is talking about, in response to FKs post, are the Ros & Heroics ones - several different ships plus various 6mm crew.
I'll second the comment about Tony at Navwar (though I'm not sure he's quite that old?) - a scholar and a gent ... and very prompt at despatching my orders.
Thank's all.
Those Outpost chappies are tempting me.
*Thanks all*
Apologies.
(https://ugc.futurelearn.com/uploads/images/92/18/hero_921826b5-05eb-4c60-9475-83aad423775f.jpg)
Is it wrong to want to crew some cogs with oversize crew so it looks contemporary?
Absolutely not wrong - I think it is valiant.
I for one, however, would not want to wear full plate armor on a ship were the gunwale hits me right above the knee, but that's me, Mr Cautious.
Buy your plate armour one size bigger and wear some inflated pigs blatters underneath I'd say... :D
It's actually more the corrosive effect of salt water on polished bare metal that would worry me. Especially if you would be wearing French or Italian armour.
Cheers,
Rob
Quote from: fsn on 27 September 2017, 08:26:23 PM
Is it wrong to want to crew some cogs with oversize crew so it looks contemporary?
Surprised that Mike hasn't mentioned "Wendy" boats yet. :P
Quote from: Westmarcher on 28 September 2017, 09:14:39 AM
Surprised that Mike hasn't mentioned "Wendy" boats yet. :P
Not so much Wendy Boats as confirmation of fsn's odd view on the world :)
After the obliquey unjustly heaped on his head recently it seemed churlish to pick on this!
Shhh....he's having a "road to Damascus" moment.
Interesting. What rules would cover this sort of 'dark ages' naval wargaming?
From what I can recall, it seemed to be a lot of arrow work and boarding. No ramming (deliberate, anyway).
Probably a bit like ancient galley warfare without the bronze beak.
You can hear the cogs turning!
Many moons ago I had a set of Medieval naval warfare rules from a magazine (long since forgotten which) and it not only included archery and boarding, weather and navigation but also the use of weapons like flour and quicklime thrown downwind to blind opponents.
Our final game ended with one cog per side still afloat in a raging storm, both dismasted and driven by the wind and still hurling quicklime and flour as the wind direction permitted.
Not sure how accurate they were but the games were a hoot!
Confucius he say,"Man who spit into wind get his own back!" :)
That would be an AAR worth reading! :)
Quote from: Raider4 on 28 September 2017, 04:13:08 PM
Interesting. What rules would cover this sort of 'dark ages' naval wargaming?
Hello
Two free ones - (http://staineswargamers.org/Webrules/RulesAwayWithHonour.htm) and http://shaun-wargaming-minis.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/medieval-naval-warfare-in-channel-first.html (http://shaun-wargaming-minis.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/medieval-naval-warfare-in-channel-first.html). Also one from the Wargame Vault http://www.wargamevault.com/product/154102/Lord-of-the-Sea?affiliate_id=368817 (http://www.wargamevault.com/product/154102/Lord-of-the-Sea?affiliate_id=368817)
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
The first free link appears as a blank square and doesn't go anywhere :(
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 28 September 2017, 11:54:59 PM
http://staineswargamers.org/Webrules/RulesAwayWithHonour.html (http://staineswargamers.org/Webrules/RulesAwayWithHonour.html)
Replacing the img tags with url seems to have fixed it :)
For miniature cogs you could try making your own out of balsa wood, building them up 'sandwich' style as per Donald Featherstone's dreadnoughts in his Naval Wargames book. I've made dreadnoughts in the past and its a very simple process so cogs should be relatively easy. It also gives you the advantage of deciding what scale to use. Crenellations in the fore and aft castles could be dealt with by the appropriate cutting and application of strips of paper or card plus, depending on the scale chosen, the mast can be a cocktail stick or piece of wooden dowling. Me? I'm tempted to try out the above rules using the miniature galleons I have from the board game, Buccaneer! :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 28 September 2017, 10:12:04 AM
After the obliquey unjustly heaped on his head recently it seemed churlish to pick on this!
He was found guilty by a Jury of his peers ;D
Quote from: Westmarcher on 29 September 2017, 09:36:04 AM
For miniature cogs you could try making your own out of balsa wood,
;D ;D ;D ;D =O =O =O =O =O
No. I couldn't.
Quote from: fsn on 29 September 2017, 11:04:56 AM
;D ;D ;D ;D =O =O =O =O =O
No. I couldn't.
MDF bases - layers of pill-shaped ones for the hull, square ones for the castles, cocktail stick for the mast, paper or light card for the sail. Simples!
Work out the sizes you need and talk nicely to Leon about getting them cut.
Hmmmm .... you interest me strangely! :-\
Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 September 2017, 04:36:25 PM
You can hear the cogs turning!
;D ;D ;D Well I for one thought that was very amusing.
Thank you, I wondered if anyone had read it!
I suspect most of us thought Nobby was too busy with cogs to deal with your coat ;)
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 28 September 2017, 11:54:59 PM
Hello
Two free ones - (http://staineswargamers.org/Webrules/RulesAwayWithHonour.htm) and http://shaun-wargaming-minis.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/medieval-naval-warfare-in-channel-first.html (http://shaun-wargaming-minis.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/medieval-naval-warfare-in-channel-first.html). Also one from the Wargame Vault http://www.wargamevault.com/product/154102/Lord-of-the-Sea?affiliate_id=368817 (http://www.wargamevault.com/product/154102/Lord-of-the-Sea?affiliate_id=368817)
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Ta. After a bit of searching I also found these for using those longships with: https://web.archive.org/web/20080413115059/http://www.kremlinminiatures.co.uk/heimskringlarules.htm (https://web.archive.org/web/20080413115059/http://www.kremlinminiatures.co.uk/heimskringlarules.htm).
Cheers, M.
--
Quote from: paulr on 29 September 2017, 06:36:13 PM
I suspect most of us thought Nobby was too busy with cogs to deal with your coat ;)
Yup! Tricky that one. He does have pretty high level cognitive functions!
Grumpy and Raider, thanks for the rules links! One simply can't have too many rules sets, particularly since I now know how to make ships!
Quote from: d_Guy on 29 September 2017, 11:29:34 PM
One simply can't have too many rules sets
Ahhhh... A man after my own heart, I've started looking for pirate rules now in response to another thread.....
Am I a tragic example of an addict, I think so.....
Ithoriel, what a brilliant idea with those MDF bases :-bd
Hi fsn
While gaming Viking/Medieval naval actions on this blog is only briefly mentioned it does cover some historical stuff that may be of some use to you:
http://www.cogandgalley.com/
Cheers
Peter
Thanks! :D