Hi Guys - Attached is my photo of first attempt at painting some 10mm romans. I am actually looking for some advice from someone with some knowledge please. My intention is to do these as Caesars Legio X during the roman civil wars for starting an army for To The Strongest. I am stuck on what if anything should be on the shields. Looking at my few reference books and asking the Google God are not really giving me a definitive answer. Anyone got any info they can share please?
Also, more than happy to take on board any other advice anyone is happy to offer on painting or basing these :)
Cheers
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh636/dvxcowan/IMG_2405_zpso0zv1msb.jpg)
TBH not sure there is a definitive answer on this one. The hallowed tome, The Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome by Phil Barker, published 1981 (4th edition), shows 74 early shield patters, of which the majority show a variety of thunderbolts, wings, wreaths etc. Unfortunately none of them are specifically ascribed to Legio X, although I doubt anyone would be any the wiser on seeing your figures. I must admit that as the years have gone by I am less bothered about such details, especially when one often ends up using the same figures to represent different units.As they are at present your figures look terrific. Have you tried the Little Big Men shield transfer company to see whether they have produced one for Legio X?
No idea about the Shiels patterns, but they look very tasty!
Thirded
Hi Jasper,
Those look amazing! As you are preparing these for To the Strongest (my favourite rules, by the way!) you might follow Simon Miller's lead. If you go to his blog www,bigredbat.blogspot.co.uk and click on Romans, then about the third or fourth entry down shows his own version of Legio X. I think the bottom line is no one knows the shield design for this individual legion, but his figures certainly look good!
Good luck with your enterprise,
Mollinary
Very nice work, Jasper. 8)
Cheers - Phil.
Yep, agree with the others about shield patterns, especially in 10mm. My advice -which is I say to anyone in such circumstances - is whatever base colour you choose, make it nice and bright. This will make your very nice looking figures look even better.
MickS
I'm no help on the shields, but really likin' your troops!
Ditto! And these seems like a good day for closeup pics as well.
Thanks for all the encouraging comments guys and the useful advice and tips so far.
I am trying out a few wreath patterns on the style of what you suggested Mollinery. My hand shakes too much at this scale to do neat lines but quite pleased so far with wreath attempts. Will post updated photo when I get more done.
Quote from: d_Guy on 05 May 2017, 10:31:40 PM
Ditto! And these seems like a good day for closeup pics as well.
The photo is just taken handheld with my phone, so sorry about the blur. If I could be bothered to get my proper camera out and ensure it had good depth of field setup it would show the detail better. It would also show all my mistakes better as well :)
Quote from: DFlynSqrl on 05 May 2017, 08:32:33 PM
I'm no help on the shields, but really likin' your troops!
Seconded!
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
I think it's fairly safe to say that until we get to the Notitia Dignitata of the Later Empire we have very little idea of what the details of the legionary shields were.
We're not sure if shield base colours were standardised for a cohort, a legion or the whole army. We have indications that one set of legionaries could identify the legion of another by their shield designs but if these differed in detail between centuries / maniple/ cohorts we have no real idea. We do know that Legio X Equestris took a bull as it's emblem so a bull's head design wouldn't be entirely outlandish.
The answer to shield patterns is that we don't know, so pick one of the common ones, or use several of them to differentiate the various cohorts. Further we don't even know the shield colour, although the evidence points at red. Same applies to the tunic, Chester's roman guides use a white one. Oh - and Hi.
IanS
Very nice. I find small shields so hard to do (I have Normans on the painting tray at the moment), I suppose the knack is to be representative (towards the abstract rather than uber accurate).
I recall reading In a painting guide that Ceaser, Pompey & Crassus' legions all used different coloured linen tunics and shield colours? That might be total fancy but it stuck as they looked good - all very Roman but all different. Would account for local attempts to standardise dress and gear in a non-industrial era as well. These ones were done in the north where we had loads of red dye, these ones from a region with ochre to hand, these ines we had a load of locally held indigo etc etc.
So here we are with my attempt at hinting at wreaths on the shields. Also started mixing up some of the metallic shades to add a bit more variety while staying uniform. Useless in close-up but I think the effect en masse is working ok.
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh636/dvxcowan/IMG_2419_zpsstfay6sq.jpg)
Hi Jasper,
I think you have really hit the spot with those. The colours are very well chosen to 'jump out' at you, and help bring the unit to life. Providing variation while maintaining uniformity is a hard job, but well worth it in my experience. For Romans I think varying the metal of the helmets is an easy way of creating the effect, as the gamer is almost always looking down on the unit from above.
Mollinary
Yeah I very much like the colours well done
Take care
Andy
What Mollinary said! And Womble :)
Those wreathes are genva apis, felis atqve vestimentvm ad somnvm.
I think those look terrific ! :-bd
Not that I'm biased, 'cos I made them. ;)
Great job !!!
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 06 May 2017, 10:19:18 AM
I think those look terrific ! :-bd
Not that I'm biased, 'cos I made them. ;)
Great job !!!
Cheers - Phil
Thanks Phil and I must say you have done a great job on the sculpts because they have been a pleasure to paint. I only need to order the next batch of a few hundred to paint now :)
I have to ask though what it would take to get a sculpt of these guys with a pilum as they seem to be the only style of roman shields without one?
I would be interested in how you are planning to base your Romans for To the Strongest.
I have a pack of Early Imperial Romans just waiting for a paintbrush to pass their way.
I am expecting to base them on 40x20mm bases a la Warmaster so that would be two rows of 5 figures for close order troops.
I would group these bases in threes on a sabot base so a To the Strongest grid of 150mm squares would be fine.
These bases would be OK for Warmaster Ancients should I be so inclined and a T-shaped sabot would do for Warband Historical should that ever come out.
Any comments or suggestions?
Think you've hit the nail on the head there Jim.
Jasper, the wreaths look very good on those shields.
When you first mentioned wreaths I thought you were asking for trouble :)
But you pulled that off very well, bravo!
Quote from: Matt J on 06 May 2017, 03:15:15 PM
When you first mentioned wreaths I thought you were asking for trouble :)
After I did a test on the first couple, I decided the effect was what I was after and as I knew I could never paint individual leaves, I resigned myself not to correct my mistakes as I went and just let them be part of the overall effect. After all these are headed for wargaming and not a display shelf :)
ps - At first I thought I was mad too :D
pps - Thanks to everyone for your kind words of encouragement and assistance.
Quote from: jimduncanuk on 06 May 2017, 12:34:54 PM
I would be interested in how you are planning to base your Romans for To the Strongest.
Well just before my wargaming buddy did his annual bunk over the pond to Toronto for 6 months :'( we had a long discussion about mounting them for dual rule set use. My buddy was keen on mounting his for To The Strongest and DBM. Where I want to do To The Strongest but keep options open for the future - I have never been sold on the "DBM cause you can't retreat a mm your stand is dead stuff" - maybe take some kind of disorder test, but dead - no. Anyway, the nice thing about To The Strongest is the flexibility on basing, so we were thinking something like 60mm frontage and DBM depth +50% for troop types. We would 2 such stands to make one unit for To The Strongest - doing this would mean the legionnaires would be on 60mm x 30mm bases. Very attracted to the idea of using sabot movement trays for this, though we always hate the 4mm height rather than 2mm when you do this. I am tempted to put my legion on 30mm x 30mm bases with figures in 2 ranks and use 4 of these bases side by side for To The Strongest to give a unit frontage of 120mm. However I am also toying with going 3 bases at 40mm x 30mm. 30mm may seem a little deep for 2 ranks but it gives you just enough depth to make the base look something as well without losing mass effect of the figures.
Quote from: Jasper on 06 May 2017, 11:30:06 AM
I have to ask though what it would take to get a sculpt of these guys with a pilum as they seem to be the only style of roman shields without one?
We'll need to get Sir's input. ;) (By that I mean Leon.) ;)
Cheers - Phil
Hello and welcome.
The colors and paintwork on those shields is pretty amazing.
I fear the poor Gauls don't stand a chance.