Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Rules! => BKC-III => Blitzkrieg Commander IV => BKC-III Rule Queries => Topic started by: xenomorphzulu on 28 April 2017, 11:36:30 AM

Title: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: xenomorphzulu on 28 April 2017, 11:36:30 AM
Hi All,

Got my copy of Blitzkrieg Commander 3 all looks good and amazing (It smells good too).

One problem I have found is that I will be doing a British Armoured Guard Battlegroup and can't seem to find the stats for a Crusader AA MK 2 anywhere and I know that these were used from D-Day on wards even though they didn't get to use them much because of the Allies total air superiority but i would like to use them anyway.

Any help will be very grateful.

And one last thing bring on COLD WAR COMMANDER 2!!
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 28 April 2017, 11:43:42 AM
Hello and welcome
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 29 April 2017, 07:23:25 AM
Hi
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: petercooman on 30 April 2017, 10:27:53 PM
If you look at the 2nd edition book, the crusader AA isn't there either.
I seem to remember Pete (the original author of the rules) added the stats to the battlegroup calculator.

My guess is nobody knew there are more profiles for units in the onine calculator then there are in the book, so they didn't 'import' them in the new rules.

Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: petercooman on 30 April 2017, 10:32:26 PM
Went to the battlegroup creator and had a ook, and found the stats for the crusader:

Quantity    Troops                    Arm       Move    AT             AP     CA    Hits      Save    Cost         Notes

1    Air Defence Unit (Crusader)    ART             25       2/40     2/60      3      4        6             85      open topped



Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 01 May 2017, 07:21:04 AM
Peter - the Crusader AA defo has a LID, you are perhaps thinking of the MkIII with an open Bofors turret
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: petercooman on 01 May 2017, 07:31:28 AM
Possibly. These are the stats I found. They are in the errata document for bkc II too.

I have the pendraken model, wich is open topped so thought that's the one.

So maybe add 5-10 points and remove the open topped rule for the closed turret?
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: Dr Dave on 01 May 2017, 09:19:35 AM
I thought that they parked them up after August '44 for want of targets anyway.
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: toxicpixie on 01 May 2017, 10:01:02 AM
Not sure if was actual "official" doctrine till much later, but the General dearth of German armour or air opposition meant both Commonwealth and American units started dropping specialist AA and AT units out very early and using the men to fil empty spaces in the personnel rosters of the infantry and crew spaces in gun tanks very early on.

Must have done wonders for morale. "But sir, we're highly trained specialists!" "Shaddup, you're a rifleman now". Reminds me of "The recollections of rifleman Bowlby" in Italy. They were a highly trained motor battalion, who then expected to go home post Tunisia, then were sent to Italy and had all their kit taken away and were used as a leg infantry unit. To say they were "windy" is an understatement...
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: petercooman on 01 May 2017, 10:28:56 AM
Quote from: toxicpixie on 01 May 2017, 10:01:02 AM

Must have done wonders for morale. "But sir, we're highly trained specialists!" "Shaddup, you're a rifleman now". Reminds me of "The recollections of rifleman Bowlby" in Italy. They were a highly trained motor battalion, who then expected to go home post Tunisia, then were sent to Italy and had all their kit taken away and were used as a leg infantry unit. To say they were "windy" is an understatement...

Sounds a bit like the factory I work in.   ;D
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: toxicpixie on 01 May 2017, 10:42:05 AM
If the whole factory staff run off as soon as thenworks whistle blows it's on the right track :D
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: petercooman on 01 May 2017, 10:49:09 AM
Well, lets just say that you'd have to be really lucky to find a'superior'  present after 3 pm on a Friday. Does that count?
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: Dr Dave on 01 May 2017, 10:49:26 AM
There used to be an elderly veteran in the village down the road - sadly he is no longer with us. He was in the support company of the Welsh Guards, 6 pdr crew in NWE. Joined the bttn in October 44 and NEVER saw a German tank or AFV of any sort except for ko'd ones.
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: fsn on 01 May 2017, 10:50:15 AM
Bofors version
(http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/uk/british-tanks/crusader-tank/Crusader_AA_Mk_III_40mm_bofors_anti_aircraft_tank.jpg)

Oerlikon version (there were 2 which differed only on where the radio was kept)
(http://www.militarymodelling.com/sites/1/images/article_images/PB25May07_003.jpg)
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: toxicpixie on 01 May 2017, 11:50:40 AM
Quote from: Dr Dave on 01 May 2017, 10:49:26 AM
There used to be an elderly veteran in the village down the road - sadly he is no longer with us. He was in the support company of the Welsh Guards, 6 pdr crew in NWE. Joined the bttn in October 44 and NEVER saw a German tank or AFV of any sort except for ko'd ones.

I'm unsurprised - that chimes with all the actual evidence, as opposed to hysterical "Tiger in every bush" "histories".

Peter, yeah, that sounds about right :D
Title: Re: Crusader AA MK 2
Post by: Astronomican on 01 May 2017, 03:16:43 PM
The photo above showing the Oerlikon-armoured Crusader AA has a bar directly in front of the rear hatch - this bar is linked to the guns. Although the guns can be fired with the rear hatch close, to get the best use of the guns that rear hatch was opened so the gunner could use the guns more effectively. By opening the rear hatch you made the turret vulnerable to splinters and grenades - hence Open-topped.

Also, many sources state that with Allied air superiority most of the AA tanks were withdrawn and the men assigned elsewhere. The only exception I know of is the Polish AA tanks, which were retained and used very effectively in the anti-infantry role.