Dear all. So it's the centenary of this major battle and I fell to wondering how many of us model WW1? I have always been fascinated by this conflict because as a young man I met plenty of veterans, and knew a man who, it turned out, had been a fighter ace. It's also the combination of new tech, planes, tanks etc with old stuff like cavalry.
In 1987 I bought a book at the late, lamented 'Gamers In Exile' in Pentonville Road. I lost this years ago, more's the pity, but it was a set of rules for Trench warfare. It also gave advice on building terrain and rules for a major 'Over The Top' campaign and trench raiding. There was some facility to fit coloured lights and use those to simulate flares.
So, what appeals/doesn't appeal about the era, specifically Western Front, what rules do you use (and does anyone know what those I bought in '87 were?!)
Please show us photos to inspire me. Not launched into era but will one day!
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I currently am putting together some Eastern Front and Western Front 1914 troops (for Belgium 1914). My efforts so far in 10mm:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20RCW/IMG_0877_zps96783d27.jpg)
Russians
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20WWI/IMG_1878_zpscr01oiez.jpg)
Belgians
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/WWI%20Eastern%20Front/IMG_1362_zpsc911c89b.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/WWI%20Eastern%20Front/2013-12-02201907_zps6c50476a.jpg)
Austrians
Greetings
In 10mm Russians, Turks and Imperial (Mesopotamia). All pending painting.
Edward
Hi Urbancohort, we use If the Lord Spares us by Too Fat Lardies for the early Western Front and the Middle East
We have just finished marking the centenary of the First Battle of Gaza http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,15766.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,15766.0.html)
I just need to finish the report on the last evening of the game
Here are a couple of painting diaries, lots of pictures scattered through them
1917 Middle East http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10663.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10663.0.html)
1914 Western Front http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10195.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10195.0.html)
Early War I use Square Bashing.
Refuse to fight the Trenches, as my Great-Grandad and his brother both served there.
My mum owns my Great-Grandad's sketchbook that has a bullet scar on it (habitual compulsive sketcher, normally, he would fill one a month, only did one book for the whole four years). He went out as a private in 1914, came back as a Captain without taking any leave. During 1918-19 he was a Mayor of a town in Belgium, where he was caught kicking a shell out of a house wall that the owner wanted to rebuild!
His brother, Walter, died at Passchendale in 1917 commanding a trench mortar detachment, after previously having his jaw shot away.
If Oddzial Osmy ever finish their Late War WW1 range I plan on doing Western Front trench warfare.
Quote from: Leman on 09 April 2017, 06:00:17 PM
I currently am putting together some Eastern Front and Western Front 1914 troops (for Belgium 1914). My efforts so far in 10mm:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20RCW/IMG_0877_zps96783d27.jpg)
Russians
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20WWI/IMG_1878_zpscr01oiez.jpg)
Belgians
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/WWI%20Eastern%20Front/IMG_1362_zpsc911c89b.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/WWI%20Eastern%20Front/2013-12-02201907_zps6c50476a.jpg)
Austrians
Great figs... well painted. I love that Belgian staff car! Where did you get it?
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Quote from: urbancohort on 09 April 2017, 08:20:41 PM
Great figs... well painted. I love that Belgian staff car! Where did you get it?
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I'm guessing it's
ME21 Open Tourer (1)
Period: World War I Range: Middle East
Ex. VAT: £2.33 Inc. VAT: £2.80
Ooer ......... that's my Square Bashing Austrian command base. The car is from the Pendraken Middle East range. The Austrians and Russians are Pendraken. The advancing Belgians are Van Dyck Miniatures, whilst the firing Belgians are Irregular. It's well worth looking through the various WWI and WWII categories in the Pendraken catalogue for vehicles, tents, wagons and so on. Vehicles are also available in the Irregular and Van Dyck catalogues. Incidentally the Van Dyck figures are marketed as 12mm, but they fit much better with Pendraken figures than with the 12mm Kallistra.
Quote from: urbancohort on 09 April 2017, 04:36:29 PM
So, what appeals/doesn't appeal about the era, specifically Western Front, what rules do you use (and does anyone know what those I bought in '87 were?!)
To answer the original question: I don't game WWI. For me the war divides into 3 parts: The early, "mobile phase"; the mid "trench phase" and the late "trench phase but there'e the possibility of a breakthrough". The early part is, for me, the last of the C19 wars. French in blue coats, cavalry, movement by train. There's a colour to it that is lost by as early as 1915.
I've read quite a bit about the mid phase, and it's not as heterogeneous as one might suspect on first viewing. It is, however, largely a static war, being mainly infantry and artillery, with the addition of gas attacks.
The last phase is when the technology set in: tanks, aeroplanes, flamethrowers. A breakthrough was possible "To the green fields beyond".
So why don't I game WWI?
Firstly, post 1900, I have a 1 figure=1 man rule. For WWI this seems inadequate, but I can't put down 1 base and say "that's the 1st Bttn Sherwood Forresters". It just feels wrong (yes I know I do the same pre 1900, but I never claimed to be consistent.) WWI need to be fought at the divisional level. You can do trrench raids, but they're quite limited.
Secondly, the terrain. Unless you're prepared to make and store dedicated terrain, WWI doesn't really "look" right on the table. I don't have the space.
Lastly, and this may be an age thing, there is for me a revulsion about WWI. Again, I'm not claiming consistency here, but as a child I heard a lot of stories about the special hell that was the Western Front. We've heard these stories repeated in the last couple of years with the centennial, and that's the overwhelming meme of the era. "Over the top", "machine guns", mental illness and the constant thump of the guns. Blame RC Sheriff or the Trench Poets or "Paths to Glory".
So the Western Front doesn't appeal. This (and here my consistency goes again) doesn't stop me having many 1:600 WWI aircraft, nor thinking about the Mespot campaign.
I look at early WWI as being not much shorter than the FPW and a lot longer than the APW, whilst in Africa and the Middle East there was a lot more mobility throughout the war. in the first phase, in Europe, any C19th terrain is usefully relevant. I can only envisage trench warfare as playable at 1:1, so I have ignored it.
After many years of avoiding WW1 as 'a machine gun fest of doom' I finally got round to doing some research on the conflict and it's much more interesting and complicated than that. In part this was due to the realisation that the old men I knew as a boy had fought in the war and while they all said it was terrible, they were proud of their service and made no mention of the 'lions led by donkeys' view prevalent in the revisionist history of the 1960's and 70's.
I generally play early and late war as the early period has some manouver and less artillery while the late period has chances of breakthrough due to improved technology.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/DSC06052.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/danandsan/media/DSC06052.jpg.html)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/French1.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/danandsan/media/French1.jpg.html)
Interesting that Leman and I have completely differing views on the scale at which one can play trench warfare.
Quote from: DanJ on 10 April 2017, 08:27:11 AM
After many years of avoiding WW1 as 'a machine gun fest of doom' I finally got round to doing some research on the conflict and it's much more interesting and complicated than that. In part this was due to the realisation that the old men I knew as a boy had fought in the war and while they all said it was terrible, they were proud of their service and made no mention of the 'lions led by donkeys' view prevalent in the revisionist history of the 1960's and 70's.
I generally play early and late war as the early period has some manouver and less artillery while the late period has chances of breakthrough due to improved technology.
I think this echoes my views.
Only better. :-[
Nice figures, Dan ! :)
Cheers - Phil
Personally I think every period and scale offers its own interesting and occasionally unique "friction", tactical and strategic challenges; and in that WWI (i guess here we're talking about the mutual seige of the trenches) is no different. I find the possibilities of the conflict to be intriguing as a gamer (whilst being repulsive as a human).
I think its viable as a game on 1:1 scale with the very interesting tactics of trench raiding, where all sides developed effective small unit tactics.
Its also viable at "mid" (platoon/company) level where unit actions can be represented well and the issues are how to make progress cut of from command and control and facing dug in HMG fields of fire and "barbed wire" - of course you'll need objective based vctory conditions as the usual casualty-based victory becomes largely irrelevant.
And it will work well at battalion and divisional scale, where the issue is largely the problems of command and control.
For me however, I haven't yet found a way to make the period viable on the table due to two issues:
1. The terrain issues already mentioned. Unless you're going to invest in dedicated recessed trench/shell hole boards, it just doesn't look right on the table. Trenches were not railway embankments!
2. Rules. I've yet to read a ruleset that seems to me to capture the essense of the WWI battlefield.
So for now, I shall leave the Great War "hanging on the old barbed wire"...
My main gaming buddy is really into All Quiet on the Martian Front, which is like a weird WW1 game.
One question I have about historical WW1 games is whether the rules attempt to simulate the extreme difficulty of communications once the troops left the trenches or the phone lines were cut by arty. Seems like tha,t as much as the machine gun and deadly artillery fire, led to the static lines on the Western Front.
Quote from: Techno on 10 April 2017, 12:44:14 PM
Nice figures, Dan ! :)
Cheers - Phil
+1
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QuoteThe terrain issues already mentioned. Unless you're going to invest in dedicated recessed trench/shell hole boards, it just doesn't look right on the table. Trenches were not railway embankments!
I've built a single board with recessed trenches and it looks good, but was a big job and far to complicated for playing different games. I've now come up with 2 answers, for big games I use lots of barbed wire entanglements for a 3D effect but the actual trenches are just strips of felt which look ok for 10mm figures. The other solution is to play 'Great War' by PSC using stands of 10mm figures instead of the 15mm figures supplied. It's very effective.
Our club, the Friends of General Haig, game WW1 with Pendraken 10mm... BEF August - September '14. I've the 2nd cavalry brigade with 24 figures per sqn, mounted and dismounted. We use Black Powder with house rules - it's called "Black Powder and Sheffield Steel". They're online somewhere. We did a bit article and game of Elouges in the August 2014 Wargames Illustrated.
Later war I skirmish game: platoon attacks and raids to capture a prisoner or pill box, farm, crater etc. Full brigade attacks would be tricky due to the nature and appearance of the trenches. Fire bays and traverses would be difficult to accommodate a "unit" in 10 mm. Better to do mid-late 1918.