Very interesting. A recording of Adolf Hitler talking (outside of his ranting speeches). Discussing the German's surprise and amazement at the power of Russia.
"Not much fun in Stalingrad, no...."
Fascinating recording, Luddite. I read the Wikipedia page on this meeting to get a sense of the context (they say June 4, 1942). If that was all you knew about Hitler he comes across as a calm, rational human with some strategic sense (although he does a good deal of blame shifting and does not seem a good listener). Given what he knows already about the dangers of the Eastern front one wonders why he chose to keep churning away on the offense.
I leave this last to those who actually know something about WW2.
Watch the video of Hitler meeting Mannerheim in the railway sidings. It is the first and only time I have ever seen Hitler show deference to another head of state. Mannerheim was a truly great man.
QuoteGiven what he knows already about the dangers of the Eastern front one wonders why he chose to keep churning away on the offense.
They'd locked themselves into it, no way to disengage by then either psychologically or physically. And even if they'd wanted to (or been mentally able to, might be better), I'm unconvinced the Russians would have let them. At least not without a jaunt west. Also, "just one more push..." is a mentality that has dragged many a better man/army/nation to their grave.
Hitler sounds quite in control, but then they do say he was mercurial - calm and rational when needed, then exploding when he wanted to frighten and intimidate then onto inspiring when wanting to buck people up. And I guess by stage he hasn't quite cowed everyone enough to be directing company level actions and demanding huge penis-replacement tanks that German industry can't build...
Death was too good for the fascist c***
Cheers
Ian
Still comes across as a nut job. >:(
Quote from: Sandinista on 17 March 2017, 09:29:41 AM
Death was too good for the fascist c***
Cheers
Ian
Agreed, along with Lenin, Stalin, Beria, Molotov, Mao, Hugo Chavez and a million other murdering leftist scum. Just saying.
Wow. Attitudes like that are why we still need to fight the fascists. Tony Benn was right, as usual.
Can't we just agree that murderous dictators and book-burning fanatics are bad guys, whichever wing they claim to fly with?
Probably hard when you can't tell fascist dictator from people who brought you paid holidays and health care!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 24 March 2017, 12:05:14 PM
Probably hard when you can't tell fascist dictator from people who brought you paid holidays and health care!
That was Bismarck, keep up FFS
That's the social democrats (left wingers) who forced those concessions out the right wing autocrats. Just like always. Awful people, seeking an equitable society.
Anyway, I'm going to follow Kitty's example and decry all the murdering autocrats what ever language they look themselves in.
"King and country". "Will of the people". "In the name of god".
Anyway, I'm going to follow Kitty's example and decry all the murdering autocrats what ever language they look themselves in.
Agreed, but you'll probably find a note of exculpation creeping in when the left start discussing Stalin (necessary to defeat Hitler etc etc) or the bread wars, or the forcible collectivisations etc etc. Scruton as always is bang on the money here - https://life.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/russian-way-lying/
I'm unconvinced Stalin has any left wing credentials, being as he was a paid agitator for the Tzarist security services who found himself at the right place to make himself king in all but name...
Bad people are NEVER left wing, being left wing makes them, by definition - GOOD ... isn't that how it goes. Anyhow, f*ck this, its Friday and here's a multiculti entertainment for you, czechs singing a song about an Ayrshire man (FM Loudon) in the service of the Emperor of Austria, I love it, almost as good as 'a cisare pana' which is my favourite - Hoch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIvXDY3iRE
Judge by actions and evidence, not rhetoric. Even Hitler cloaked himself & the Nazis in pseudo-left wing rhetoric in order to try and assume the mantle of good. It's no even so much right versus left as equity versus autocracy. The same struggle we've faced since the first god-kings said "give me the literal fruits of your labours that I may live in unearned splendour".
Even with that, there's no monopoly on any pole/axis on nice or nasty, but it does swing towards nasty on the right so much more often it's a good shorthand, I guess.
Anyway, yes. Time to leave this, although I might revisit for a listen to the song when I'm not on the phone :)
but it does swing towards nasty on the right so much more often it's a good shorthand, I guess.
Really, Stalin, Mao, I mean how do you gauge it, body count ? If so its the left by a mile, every time.
The voice of reason again reminds everyone that this isn't TMP....
TMP, really ! go and wash your mouth out. The left have an innate sense of 'betterness', post war it has gone virtually unchallenged, any atrocity is somehow vitiated by 'the end - or the putative end - is justified by the means', it is not, it never will be. Democide is every bit as horrible as Genocide, no difference at all, none.
No, no ,no ,no. I already had my fill of fighting on TMP (went as far as stiffled 3 people. Two of them people who usually make good gaming posts. Only had done it once before). Not on this Forum as well. Come on. Keep your politics in check.
As for the recording. It is quite clear that Hitler i) really did believe Stalin would come after him at some point in the 1940s. On the other hand we know do have strong indicators that Stalin would probably had not done so until much later in 40s or early 50s. i.e unlike Hitler, Stalin still thought it prudent to spend time digesting what he got out of Robberdop-Molotov.
ii) The Germans really really did no serious prep work on the USSR capabilities. They only read events (Purges, Winter War) within their pre-existing prejudices about the Soviet system (ie as indicators of weakness) and did not consider them as indicators of strength (i.e the Purges meant that Stalin now had no internal opposition. The Winter War as a indicator of the ability of the Soviets to rebound from defeat, mobilize new resources, and innovate to victory). A shocking confession of incompetence.
I wonder, how much of the lack of info on the Soviets was due to the purges. I do not for a moment by that the majority of the people purged had done what Stalin accused them off. But I wonder if the biggest part of the German intelligence network in the USSR was not destroyed alongside the thousands of innocent?
Remember the forum 'rule' about politics and religion, chums.
Cheers - Phil
Well that's the League of AusbErg threads shut down permanently. :P
Quote from: fsn on 24 March 2017, 10:27:56 PM
Well that's the League of AusbErg threads shut down permanently. :P
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
There isn't a creed, philosophy or political persuasion that hasn't been an excuse for wickedness at some point.
I'm not a Christian but the following still resonates
Sydney Carter 'The Devil'
The Devil wore a Crucifix
"The Christians they are right"
The Devil said "so let us burn
A heretic tonight,
A heretic tonight".
The stars and stripes or swastika
The crescent or a star
The Devil he will wear them all
No matter what they are,
No matter what they are,
In red or blue or khaki
In green or black and tan
The Devil is a patriot
A proper party man,
A proper party man.
Whenever there's a lynching
The Devil will be there
A witch or an apostle,
The Devil doesn't care,
The Devil doesn't care.
He'll beat a drum in China
He'll beat it in the west
He'll beat a drum for anyone
"And a Holy war is best,
A Holy war is best".
The Devil isn't down in hell
Or riding in the sky
The Devil's dead (I've heard it said)
They're telling you a lie,
They're telling you a lie!
Quote from: fsn on 24 March 2017, 10:27:56 PM
Well that's the League of AusbErg threads shut down permanently. :P
=O