After making a decision to go with a more avant guard look to my Weird WWI American army that I've been working on, and realizing that American FT-17s had the card markings on the turret as opposed to the rear hull sides as the French did, and absolutely loving this scheme I decided to create it for my army. My first blush thought when I found this scheme was that it was a French mid 30's scheme, and it does bear some resemblance - except that by that time those FT-17s still in active service had a unique, usually three color, wide band horizontal striped scheme. But, the Americans adopted schemes in the early 20's that included some of these color shades. Therefore since my army based on the book "By the Blood of Heroes" which takes place in 1921, it seemed a perfect fit.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/terry37photos/Weird%20World%20War/Renault%20FT17_zpsabxetomm.png) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/terry37photos/media/Weird%20World%20War/Renault%20FT17_zpsabxetomm.png.html)
Looks to be a six color scheme edged black.
So today I converted one of Leon's FT-17 models to be armed with the machine gun instead of the 37 MM cannon. I will be painting it in this scheme, and will some how figure out how to do the heart in a diamond marking for the turret - the diamond is easy enough, it's the heart that will be the challenge. I was hoping the one I am copying would have been an American produced FT-17, but it is not, being a French made model. Still will be another very colorful addition to the army.
Terry
Not my area but did see one at the AAF museum a while back. It was not in dazzle camouflage, rather monochromatic really. :)
Apparently this type of camouflage was thought to be effective?
It will look great on a wargame table, effective or not.
All I'm going to say is that if you look at armies with very camouflaged tanks in WWII (French, Italian, Japanese) and those that were fairly plain (UK, US, USSR) we can see who the winners are.
When did the Germans start to lose? 1943 when they switched to a 3 part camo scheme.
Coincidence? I think not.
For the heart I suggest you start with two small circles with the circumference touching, then paint a v underneath touching the two outer sides of the circles, then fill it in
Looking forward to seeing the great work
Thought I would share a picture of the model to give an idea of how the conversion part turned out. It's primed and ready to paint, which I plan to start today.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/terry37photos/Weird%20World%20War/IMG_1897_zpsgsut1zuq.jpg) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/terry37photos/media/Weird%20World%20War/IMG_1897_zpsgsut1zuq.jpg.html)
More to follow,
Terry
Quote from: fsn on 17 January 2017, 07:58:11 AM
All I'm going to say is that if you look at armies with very camouflaged tanks in WWII (French, Italian, Japanese) and those that were fairly plain (UK, US, USSR) we can see who the winners are.
When did the Germans start to lose? 1943 when they switched to a 3 part camo scheme.
Coincidence? I think not.
But in the earlier period the Brits were camouflaged. I'm inclined to think a key factor for the Germans changing was their loss of air superiority, that's when you really need to hide.
Quote from: JeffNNN on 18 January 2017, 06:34:17 PM
But in the earlier period the Brits were camouflaged.
And when they were camouflaged ... they lost.
Looking forward to seeing it progress, Terry.
Cheers - Phil
German camouflage and losses started around the same time as this gem, which I got from a German who'd been in armoured units during WW2, came into circulation:-
"If it shows up blue, it's British. If it shows up white, it's American. If it doesn't show up at all it's the Luftwaffe!"
From Normandy "When the RAF turn up, the Germans duck. When the Luftwaffe turns uo, the allies duck. When the USAAF turns up everybody ducks."
For clarity, I think that technology, tactics and industrial muscle have far more to do with determining the overall result of armoured warfare than the pretty camouflage schemes or ... dare I say it ... tactical air power.
And bless you Techno for trying to re-rail this thread.
Why are threads "derailed". Why aren't they "dethreaded" or "dis-needled" or "mis-hemmed"?
Perhaps the threads are training?
Quote from: mad lemmey on 19 January 2017, 09:12:13 AM
Perhaps the threads are training?
No, the German tanks are training, because they break to quickly on road marches!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 19 January 2017, 10:01:35 AM
No, the German tanks are training, because they break to quickly on road marches!
Similar to low-end BMW's?
Plus ca change :D
I doubt they were concerned with fiddling emissions tests, mind :D
Quote from: JeffNNN on 18 January 2017, 06:34:17 PM
But in the earlier period the Brits were camouflaged. I'm inclined to think a key factor for the Germans changing was their loss of air superiority, that's when you really need to hide.
I remember attending a lecture on this very subject. Camouflage, whatever pattern or amount of foliage means zero once a tank/AFV starts to move. The dust/smoke generated betrays position. Always.
Early German WW2 tactics (this thing called Blitzkrieg) demanded a vast about of movement and dash. And yes, air superiority helped.
As the war progresses, the armour - be it tanks or more usually the infantry supporting
Sturmgeschutz lay up in defensive positions and these tactics dictated better paint and camouflage disciplines. In the Italian campaign the Brits report Assault Gun crews were adroit at backing into a building and using its semi demolished state to camouflage their vehicle.
We used to get really pissed off with accompanying armoured troops in the BAOR. We would have a well cammed position on the reverse slope, alterative firing points prepped ....and then some Rupert in a Smoky Joe would fire up that Leyand multi fuel . Compromised or what ? 8-} X_X
I've applied the base coats, and see a few touch-ups still needed in the picture, but that's a nit and so now I'll hit it with a light wash, and grunge the tracks, let all of that dry (which takes about 12 hours since I use an extender in my washes) and then I'll hit the highlights and any details needed, and get it ready for the decals.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/terry37photos/Weird%20World%20War/IMG_1910_zpsmq3vxdtv.jpg) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/terry37photos/media/Weird%20World%20War/IMG_1910_zpsmq3vxdtv.jpg.html)
That is a good idea about going about painting the heart isnignia, but then I got to looking at it and the heart is only going to be about 1-2 MM or so in size. So I am looking at modifying a tiny round, red dot decal to resemble a heart and seeing how it might work.
More to follow,
Terry
Looking fab
Nice! :-bd
Very funky!
8)
Cheers - Phil
Lovely stuff once again 8)
Got to say that it looks good. I wouldn't have thought so, with those colours, but it does.
I have finished the Renault and it is ready to base.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/terry37photos/Weird%20World%20War/IMG_1912_zpsg61fh8lt.jpg) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/terry37photos/media/Weird%20World%20War/IMG_1912_zpsg61fh8lt.jpg.html)
I have to share that what fun it was making the diamond heart insignia for the turret - took the better part of an afternoon! The white diamond was really pretty simple as I just cut a corner out of a red cross decal and turned it on it's point. The heart, that's a different story as it is only 1 MM in size. I used some small red dots I have for pre-war American insignia and tried cutting it into the heart shape. After I ruined 8 of those red dots I decided to try a different approach. I used white paint and painted the red dot to look like a heart and that worked pretty good, but I wasn't sure how the decal would work after I put paint on it. So, I cut the painted decal out and it went on fine. I am very please with the results.
I'll show this again after I've done the base. My plan in is to have it crashing through some barbed wire on a shell pocked section of No-Man's Land.
Terry
Looks great
Lovely work 8)
8)
Cheers - Phil.
Thank you everyone for your kind words. I have found the various and numerous Pendraken models of armor and walkers to be so accommodating for conversions, and great fun to paint up. In forth coming armies I will be doing an A7V, a German captured Whippet, some Hungarian and French light walkers, a British heavy walker, a British hover A/C, and a German and French Uberpanzer and a Char de Combat de Super. For me some very exciting conversions that I am very much looking forward to doing!
Terry
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Here's the finished and based FT17 for my American Weird WWI army. Great fun creating it.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/terry37photos/Weird%20World%20War/IMG_1964_zpskd6lxa81.jpg) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/terry37photos/media/Weird%20World%20War/IMG_1964_zpskd6lxa81.jpg.html)
You can see the full army under the "Non Pendraken" section.
Terry
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Nice basing
Like that !
Cheers - Phil.
That's an awesome muddy base. I can feel my boot being pulled off my foot.
Thank you all for the kind comments.
For the basing of my figures I start with some Elmer's wood putty that I thin with water as needed and then apply it with a brush. To create the mud look of No Man's Land, I would make any high areas first with pieces of balsa wood, and then apply he putty over it. Then as the putty was starting to harden, I took the remnant of an old paint brush with no real bristles left and sort of picked and jabbed and tortured the putty. Then if needed I'd take a wet brush and smooth any unrealistic areas and re-torture if needed. Then when the putty was dry, to create smaller pieces of dirt and mud I sprinkled some mixed size model railroad ballast over an area of clear glaze. Then when the glaze dried I'd give it another coat of glaze and it was fixed to the base.
Once the basing material was all well dried I'd paint it with a base coat of appropriate color and then start going over that with various very thin washes of paint. Lastly I'd paint in any specific ares I wanted shadowed and using a "we"t dry brush feather in some highlights.
It's a slow process, but is one I am happy with and feel it is worth the time.
Terry
:-bd :-bd