Pendraken Miniatures Forum

I am currently researching the Italian, Ottoman, Greek and Bulgarian navies from 1911-1913 (Italo-Turkish War & First Balkan War) :-B

I am going to use 1/3,000 Navwar models and have found most of what I need for the larger ships and several of the smaller ships :)

I have found 'close enough' substitutes for most of the smaller ships :-\ :)

I not found substitutes for the following:

Italian

• Protected cruiser Piemonte
• Torpedo ships Agordat and Arethusa
• Gunboat Volturno

Ottoman

• Torpedo Gunboat Peleng-i Deryâ
• Torpedo boat Berk Efşan
• Gunboat Nur-ül Bahir (I haven't found a picture of her yet)

Bulgarian

• Torpedo gunboat Nadezhda

Any suggestions for 'close enough' substitutes would be warmly welcomed.

Pierre the Shy is tempting me to get the Astro-Hungarians as well, which I may do. And extend to WWI which is probably a few too many ships :-\

Sounds interesting, I'd like to see pictures once you have finished!

Have you tried Tumbling Dice? They have all sorts of ships in all sorts of scales.

Quote from: Leman on 11 January 2017, 10:17:46 AM
Have you tried Tumbling Dice? They have all sorts of ships in all sorts of scales.

Only 1/2400 and 1/4800 scale ships to the best of my knowledge but it's possible a 1/2400 torpedo boat might make a 1/3000 cruiser or similar.

Mick Yarrow has a range of 1/3000 naval stuff, no idea if there's anything that would do in his line.

http://www.spanglefish.com/mickyarrowminiatures/index.asp?pageid=188423

Thanks, pictures will be posted in due course  ;)

But I haven't finalised my order(s) yet.

Tumbling Dice don't do 1/3,000 and Navwar have almost all I want in 1/3,000

I've had a quick look at Mike Yarrow, he certainly does some different ships. I will have a good look later

Might be worth a look on Shapeways too - probably too expensive for a whole fleet, but a good way to fill in some unusual ships.

And I tip my hat to you, at choosing a fantastically obscure period!

Hello paulr

Have a look at http://www.wtj.com/store/ (http://www.wtj.com/store/).

Has a lot of pewter and fast prototype (3D printed?) plastic 1/3000 pre-dreadnought ships that might be handy.

Doesn't list the Piemonte but has other protected cruisers.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

Also Navwar - although their ordering system is primitive....

Just ordered some galleys for "Poseidon's Warriors" from Navwar. Sent the order off on Wednesday of last week and the parcel arrived Monday. Primitive ... but effective!

Good to hear your order was so promptly dealt with :)

Last time we ordered from Navwar they were having trouble with their fax machine but once the order was received it was also promptly processed ~X( :)

I made some progress on my research last night finding suitable stand ins for Piemonte and Agrodat

Quote from: paulr on 12 January 2017, 06:26:44 PM
Good to hear your order was so promptly dealt with :)

Last time we ordered from Navwar they were having trouble with their fax machine but once the order was received it was also promptly processed ~X( :)

I made some progress on my research last night finding suitable stands for Piemonte and Agrodat

Second class post, in both directions, got the job done. Still feels positively Dickensian but, hey-ho, if I want the items ...

Some of the (major) companies we deal with at work often say they "don't have email" (they clearly do - but only when it suits them) but say they can send and receive faxes.
I did say to someone recently that they could try contacting us via semaphore but the quip was entirely lost on them.
That's today's younger generation for you...

Geoff

Some of my background reading has given me the perfect "what if" to justify the Austro-Hungarian ships :)

In the first few days of the Italo-Turkish war Italian ships of the 'Division of the Torpedo Boat Inspector', including the battleship St Bon, were bombarding the Ottoman coast in the southern Adriatic and fought the battle of Prevesa. The Austro-Hungarians were so worried about the impact on already unsettled Albanians and the rest of the Balkans that they warned Italy that they would take direct naval action if the war was not confined to Africa. They also moved a division of battleships south to reinforce their diplomatic warning

Due to communications delays Italian torpedo boats were still bombarding the Ottoman coast days later. Also the Austria-Hungarian Army Chief of Staff end up resigning because he could not convince the Emperor to invade Italy while it was preoccupied with Tripoli.

Quote from: fred. on 11 January 2017, 07:21:00 PM
Might be worth a look on Shapeways too - probably too expensive for a whole fleet, but a good way to fill in some unusual ships.

And I tip my hat to you, at choosing a fantastically obscure period!

It looks as though I will be able to find stand ins for most if not all the ships I'm after :)

It is a fascinating period with some really different ship designs and some interesting small actions and plenty of what ifs for larger actions. For example the main Ottoman fleet was returning from a training cruise to Beruit when war was declared. Fortunately for the Ottomans one of the steamers dispatched found the fleet and warned them that war had been declared allowing them to avoid the Italian forces

I finished working out the last of the "stand ins" or substitutes last night :)

I now have an order of 149 ships :o including the Austro-Hungarians

I've started researching ship colours, KTravlos' Hellenic Maritime Museum pictures were very useful

My initial thoughts are:

Greek

• mid to light grey
• at least one source claims black for TBs which contradicts the models at the Hellenic Maritime Museum

Bulgarian

• mid gray

Ottoman

• TBs dark brown or 'black'
• Larger vessels light khaki

Italian

• TB 'black'
• Larger vessels dark blue grey
• I'm tempted to do some in peace time colours, 'black' hull, white upper works and ochre funnels

Austro-Hugarian

• TB 'black'
• Larger vessels dark green

These are very much initial thoughts and any information welcome

149! That's a big fleet or three!

Keep in mind black was the peace color. Most steam navies in the pre-WWI era still did peace/war colors. The Psara model in the naval museum for example is 100% peace colors. War color for the Greek navy was more towards a light gray, though I painted mine in darker shade.

Under this label you can check my posts on my Age of Steam fleets. A good number of the 13 is on Greek and Ottoman fleets

http://phdleadhead.blogspot.com.tr/search/label/Age%20of%20Naval%20Steam (http://phdleadhead.blogspot.com.tr/search/label/Age%20of%20Naval%20Steam)

Excellent K

Quote from: fsn on 13 January 2017, 07:07:25 PM
149! That's a big fleet or three!

I double checked my order this morning and it has crept up to 154 :o ;)

There are five fleets; Italian 47, Ottoman 43, Austro-Hungarian 39, Greeks 18, and Bulgarians 7

About half of those are destroyers, torpedo boats or gun boats so pretty small (15-25mm long) and multiples in each pack :)

Quote from: KTravlos on 13 January 2017, 10:27:50 PM
Keep in mind black was the peace color. Most steam navies in the pre-WWI era still did peace/war colors. The Psara model in the naval museum for example is 100% peace colors. War color for the Greek navy was more towards a light gray, though I painted mine in darker shade.

Under this label you can check my posts on my Age of Steam fleets. A good number of the 13 is on Greek and Ottoman fleets

http://phdleadhead.blogspot.com.tr/search/label/Age%20of%20Naval%20Steam (http://phdleadhead.blogspot.com.tr/search/label/Age%20of%20Naval%20Steam)

The Ottomans were taken by surprise by the Italian declaration of war in the Italo-Turkish war so I wonder if at least some of the Italian ships had not been painted war colours at the start of the war :-\

Some of your posts help rekindled my interest in this period and area :)

The Italians probably were, the surprise was because the declaration came out of the blue. The Ottomans might had ships in peace colors though. By 1912 I think most of the fleet had been given its war-colors. I believe the old Seekrieg rules have notes on fleet coloring (find the free wargame rules wiki and it has them) . Also I think there was something on the War Times Journal site on that.

In my 'spare' wargaming time I'm creating the GQ Ship Data Sheets for all my planned ships and in the process checking my order

I've only made a couple of minor changes to the order so far, increasing the number of ships of course ;)

I'm also wondering what some of the designers were thinking when it came to armament layout :-\ :-/

Well a lot of these were ironclads or re-furbished ironcalds (for example Psara, Mesudiye). And the iron clad period was one of experimentation. One think to keep in mind is blast cones. They sometimes explain why some ships had weird gun deployments.

A good point on blast cones :-\

The strange combinations of armaments and layout are one of the fascinations of this period :)

Quote from: paulr on 15 January 2017, 06:40:32 PM
In my 'spare' wargaming time I'm creating the GQ Ship Data Sheets for all my planned ships and in the process checking my order

I've only made a couple of minor changes to the order so far, increasing the number of ships of course ;)

I'm also wondering what some of the designers were thinking when it came to armament layout :- :-/

Don't forget that I will be adding some quite a few as well   ;) 

In putting together my wish list  1. its amazing to see just how much some nations were prepared to spend on buying ships prior to WW1
                                              2. just how many protected/armoured cruisers were built at the Elswick yard on the Tyne for a range of nations from 1880 - 1914.

Luckily for me working out substitutes has been reasonably straightforward as many of the Elswick cruisers have pretty similar looks and dimensions. I have used several Japanese ships to depict the "Southern Cone" navies I am modelling from 1880 - 1914, though a couple of more exotic ships will be need to be scratchbuilt or "remodelled" from existing ones.....not quite as hairy as it sounds and can turn out well - as shown by the very nifty "americanised" steampunk walker conversion thread recently.

   

I haven't forgotten your additions to 'our' order ;)

I've been making good progress on the Ship Data Sheets and learning a lot about the various ships in the process :)

All the Italians and Astro-Hungarians ships I'm ordering are done and all the Ottoman capital ships and destroyers I'm ordering as well

Ottoman torpedo boats, Greeks and Bulgarians to do

Ottoman torpedo boats, Greeks and Bulgarians SDS done, so all done :)
I will need to go back and proof them

I also noted that they're actually called Ship Damage Summaries not Ship Data Sheets ;D

Good progress on the proofing; Italians and Austrians done :)

It looks like my part of the order has stabilised at 154 ships

I've just been through Pierre the Shy's part of our joint order
Some interesting stuff there, and all his substitutions make sense although some will involve some conversion work ;)

By some bizarre coincidence we have come up with almost equal value orders :o
I suspect it has something to do with round numbers ;D

I've just triple checked our combined order  :-B ~X( :-B ~X( :-B

139 packs :o :o :o

I will be getting 163 ships  :o :)
With only 7 small ships spare :)

haha, now that is a lot of ships. I hope they bring you joy!

This may be a strange place to post it, but there is a fascinating programme on Quest at present 10.15pm UK time) on the sinking of the Maine in Havana Harbour. Thought the naval Guys reading this thread might be interested.

Mollinary

I just stumbled across this post, some interesting stuff. I have the Greek and Ottoman fleets to refight the major engagements of the First Balkan War. All of my ships are Navwar, I believe I used German TBs for Turks and French TBs for Greeks. Painted my fleets very similar to what you have planned: My Ottoman fleet was painted a dingy khaki with TBs in black. The Greeks are a light grey, can't recall how I painted the TBs, here are some of my ships:

http://lecoqfou.blogspot.com/2015/01/balkans-war-at-sea.html

I later purchased Russian Black Sea ships for hypothetical clashes between the Ottomans and Russians. I may have to venture into the Italian-Ottoman War too. Two good books for the Balkans and Italian Ottoman Wars are The Balkan Wars 1912-1913: Prelude to the First World War and A Box of Sand. Both deal with the naval aspects and have some good photos of vessels. I use a ruleset from a local gamer called "When Dreadnoughts Ruled the Seas" which have expansion sets for the pre-dreadnought era. The rules are more game than simulation and ships really take a pounding but they are a blast to play.

I also have pre-dreads form War Times Journal; their models, especially the 3D prints, are extremely detailed. That being said, there is something very charming (and speed paint friendly) about the Navwar models.

Nice looking ships Streetgang  :-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Particularly impressive tripod masts on Georgios Averof

I will be adding masts as I have done on my WWII ships, it makes a huge difference

WTJ do look to have a higher level of detail but I decided to go with a consistent look across all the ships

We will be using General Quarters I/II with the Pre-dreadnought mods from the Yahoo group

I've scaled up the AF & DF factors by a factor of 4 and included 12, 6 & 3pdr guns. This allows more differentiation between particularly the smaller ships

I've also changed the ground scale from the 1cm : 200 yards we use for WWI & WWII to 1cm : 100 yards to allow for some of the slower ships and also make the few fast ships feel 'really' fast

Order sent off to NavWar :)

Once I found a Post Office that had a fax machine ~X(

Fortunately it was my local Post Office that was still open when I got back from work :)

Thanks Paul, I appreciate the kind words. I can't take credit for the tripod mast, that is all NavWar. The extent of my masts are single rods of brass wire where the masts should be. It gives enough of an impression for me to be content with. Good luck with your venture and please be sure to post some pictures, we can all use inspiration and motivation, I am trying to finish off my Russian Black Sea fleet now!

Morning Streetgang

Very nice looking ships. I always add masts to my 1/3000 ships as they do make the models look much better and are generally easy to do, though I have gone through several 1mm and 1.5mm drillbits over time as I use a small modelling handdrill for the holes for the brass rod masts.

I've included some (well quite a few actually  ;)) pre-WW1 Navwar ships from various other nations with Paul's order but there are a few that I couldn't match.

However WTJ make the Chilean and Spanish ships I need in 3D printed "plastic"?

Interested if you had any issues/advice about painting the 3D printed ones if you did get them (as opposed to WTJ's metal cast models) as I might get the WTJ ones at some stage.

Cheers
Peter

Quote from: paulr on 24 January 2017, 05:31:06 AM
Order sent off to NavWar :)

Once I found a Post Office that had a fax machine ~X(

Fortunately it was my local Post Office that was still open when I got back from work :)

You can send faxes by email these days, which might make it a bit easier!

I have never had any issues with painting WTJ rapid prototype ships. I consider them the best bang for you buck when it comes to the balance between detail and price.

My credit card has just had a rather large transaction from Navwar

So that confirms that someone has cleared their fax machine and the fax went to the right place #:-S

I wonder if it also means they have processed and dispatched the order :-\
Three days is pretty quick to get that many ships together

It certainly contrasts with the level of communication we almost take for granted from Pendraken

A 1.35kg box from Navwar arrived for me at work today :) :) :)

I resisted opening it for almost half an hour ;) ;D

According to the note inside we got everything we wanted including the 'special order' of just some of the ships out of a couple of battle backs :) :) :)

I have some sorting to do tonight :!!

I give you the joy of it sir!

I sorted the order last night and everything we wanted is there, including the special order of half a dozen ships out of a couple of battle packs :) :) :)

I also prepared the Greek navy last night, all 18 ships :)

This morning I added masts to the larger ships and prepared the Ottoman ships for the battle of Elli, 16 ships (including 4 extra destroyers so I'm doing whole classes) :)
The glue is drying on their added masts as I type ;D

Once the glue is fully dry I'll trim the masts then undercoat all the ships :-w

I also need to pop to my 'local' model shop and get some light Khaki once they are open

Unfortunately for Pierre the Shy this is not helping the progress on his ITLSU 1914 Third Echelon  :-[
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,15515.msg226379.html#msg226379 (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,15515.msg226379.html#msg226379)

Quote from: paulr on 10 February 2017, 07:42:27 PM
I sorted the order last night and everything we wanted is there, including the special order of half a dozen ships out of a couple of battle packs :) :) :)

I also prepared the Greek navy last night, all 18 ships :)

This morning I added masts to the larger ships and prepared the Ottoman ships for the battle of Elli, 16 ships (including 4 extra destroyers so I'm doing whole classes) :)

34 ships on the go already!?! blimey they only arrived yesterday :o .....at that rate you should be able to get back to the PM WW1 stuff within a couple of weeks....tops  ;)

FWIW I made plenty of progress on the WW1 ITLSU stuff I have to do, just need to print and glue on the labels for the British stuff now and then onto last of the German stuff I have to do (until Paul does the latest batch).

Picking up my share of the ships tonight, so between us we should be busy painting ships for quite a while.

(Head lowered into hands - slowly shaking it from side to side) - I can't keep up! - the quantity of the output - the quality of the results - and I'm retired! -and jealous - did I mention jealous?  :)

Know how you feel

Quote from: mad lemmey on 11 February 2017, 09:42:29 AM
Know how you feel

What!? You're as bad! You paint more in an evening than I do in a year! :)

Quote from: mad lemmey on 11 February 2017, 09:42:29 AM
Know how you feel

Picked up my ships off Paul last night. He was just finishing the Greek ships off!

FWIW DGuy and Ithoriel I don't know how he paints up things so fast either but the results are always amazing  ;) 

Quote from: Ithoriel on 11 February 2017, 03:44:18 PM
What!? You're as bad! You paint more in an evening than I do in a year! :)

To be fair I did the Greeks in a day as well as mowing the lawns and a trip to my not so local model store (21km) :)
We continued our Napoleonic game yesterday evening :)

Unfortunately my local model/stationery shop closed before Xmas :( :(

I also base coated the Ottomans :)

I washed the Greeks and finished painting the Ottomans this morning, touch ups left to do :)
Not bad before breakfast ;D

When you say you "washed the Greeks" I assume here you mean the entire country.  :D

 ;D ;D ;D

Only my 18 ships I'm afraid ;)

 :o
I quit!

Quote from: d_Guy on 11 February 2017, 03:46:17 AM
(Head lowered into hands - slowly shaking it from side to side) - I can't keep up! - the quantity of the output - the quality of the results - and I'm retired! -and jealous - did I mention jealous?  :)

I know what you mean , you just want to put out their eyes with a red hot Iron and cut off their thumbs just to be on the safe side. - All in the nicest possible way of course.

I have some 6mm Irregular fantasy painted by a friend. The Riders of Rohan cavalry have white horses painted on their lance pennants.  He used to paint an Irregular army pack to this standard in three evenings !!!!!!!!

I try to console myself by thinking that they must all have small penises, ugly partners and  poisonous warts on the ends of their noses etc.  But I am sure that's not true  :(, well the bit about the ugly partners anyway.  :)

Did the touch ups on the Ottomans :)

Cut and prepared 30 bases, first side painted blue :)
Cut out magnetic vinyl for the bases :)

Prepared Ottoman Ironclads, Torpedo Cruisers, Torpedo Gunboat and a couple of Torpedo boats - 8 ships :)
Prepared the Bulgarian navy - 1 Torpedo Gunboat and 6 Torpedo boats :)

About to add masts to the larger vessels - not sure yet if that includes the Torpedo Cruisers and Torpedo Gunboats, I need to look at some pictures :-\

Added more wash to the tripod masts of the Georgios Averof
Touched up a few Greek ships where the wash had overflowed
Highlighted the tripod masts on the Georgios Averof :)

Painted the second side of all the bases and first edge of most of them :)

Added masts to Bulgarian torpedo gunboat; Ottoman torpedo cruisers, torpedo gunboat and one ironclad :)
The other two Ottoman ironclads have masts moulded on :)

Work has slowed progress :(

Finished painting all the bases, magnetic vinyl glued on and bases labelled :)

Next batch of ships undercoated :)

Work and Valentine's Day have continued to slow progress  :(

The first batch of ships are now based :)

A third batch of ships; Bulgarians, the rest of the Ottomans and the first of the Italians, has caught up with the second batch
They have been prepared, had masts added and been undercoated :)

I now have 7 Bulgarian, 29 Ottoman and 16 Italian ships waiting for their base coat :!!

Wakes and waves dry brushed on first batch :)
Waiting for day to warm up enough to varnish them :-w

Second & third batches base coated :)

Bases for second & third batches cut out :)

The weather was kind for most of the day and I got the first batch varnished  :)

Bases for the second & third batch sanded and washed :)

Second & third batches detailed and touch ups done :) :)

I really seem to be on a roll with these ships :o :-[ :)

Later in the day it clouded over and there wasn't enough light for pictures  :(
Forecast not looking good for photography for the weekend  :( :(

good going!

PICTURES!!!!! .......................please.  ;)

The rain has set in for the weekend here Sunjester, not going to be good till Monday.....you'll have to be patient  :-w

I'm still drilling 1mm holes in my recently purchased 1/3000 ships with a pinvice as I like to add simple brass rod masts to the cruisers and capital ships. They really do make a difference visually at that scale.

Oh well good excuse to try and get the bases and labels done instead, and work out how exactly Paul's modification spreadsheet works - in between entertaining the kids  :) 

Second & third batches washed last night :)

Both sides of the bases painted :)
Edges next :!!

As Peter says the weather is not good this weekend :(
Misty drizzle at the moment, can't even see the tops of the nearby hills :(
Photography weather probably Tuesday, maybe Monday after work if the cloud cooperates :-w :-w

Quote from: paulr on 17 February 2017, 07:06:10 PM
Misty drizzle at the moment, can't even see the tops of the nearby hills :(

Same here.......and fog......or, more likely, low flying cloud.

Oh......I'd forgotten.....I live in the Preselis......In Wales.

Cheers - Mr Sneezy.  (I mean...after everything medical I've been through, in the last few months....I just HAVE to pick up a frigging cold.)  ;)

Edges on all the bases done :)

Got the magnetic vinyl glued on before continuing our Napoleonic game yesterday evening :)

Labelling & basing to do today :!!

Forecast is for "Occasional showers. Light winds.", looks like some of the showers are going to be heavy :(
At this rate I'm going to have a major photo shoot on my hands when the weather finally improves ~X(

Also working on the scenario for the battle of Elli which will happen after we finish our Napoleonic game

Real life disrupted progress a bit today

Bases labelled :)
Revealing for the second time on this project that I can't count >:(
Last time I was two bases short this time I have two large bases too many and four small bases too few ~X(
I try and sort it with the next batch

Sorted and prepared the next batch; Italians and Austro-Hungarians :)
Washing them revealed a bit more clean up is required on some ships. Also there are quiet a few masts to add

Completed the first draft of my Battle of Elli scenario and sent it off to Pierre the Shy to review

We had some nice sunny breaks :), between heavy showers :(, with fast moving clouds so still no photographs ~X(

Did the extra clean up on the ships that needed it :)

Drilled all the mast holes :)
Including some of the more interesting ones on some of the Austro-Hungarian ships, a 0.5mm hole in a round lookout position 1.5mm in diameter, all went well #:-S

Cut up wire for masts and found I only had enough for about 30 masts and I needed over 40 ~X( ~X(
Glued the masts into the ships and trimmed to length :)
Eight ships awaiting masts :!!

I'll be calling my 'not so local' model shop shortly to see if he has any wire in stock :-SS

Weather is looking good for undercoating and photography today

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....(gasps).....eeeeeeeeeee...eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeët

My 'not so local' model shop had the wire in stock so after a quick trip out I have finished the masts and the undercoat is now drying in the sun :) :)

While waiting for it to cool down enough to base the next lot of ships I finally got the current lot photographed and post processed :)

The Greeks, two more destroyers to base and they are complete

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2109_zpsg5slkijk.jpg)

Some close up examples

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2110_zpsyfy3b3fy.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2111_zpslj5opifb.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2117_zpsl2evdvpd.jpg)

The Ottomans, so far...

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2108_zpskhvi4ka2.jpg)

Some close up examples

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2139_zpslx6ccuol.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2137_zpsvzzcsund.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2136_zpszoykttvq.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2135_zpsshboixnn.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2134_zpsw9t9wscr.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2133_zps7fwrkx5p.jpg)

To give you a feel for scale the larger bases are 75x30 and the smaller 50x15

Updated my Battle of Elli scenario thanks to some really useful feedback from Pierre the Shy :)

Looking very nice Paul....

The battle of Elli looks challenging for both sides - One of the Ottoman Ironclads has "dummy" main guns made of wood and Greek Navy bought their four new "big cat" destroyers but could not afford to buy the torpedoes to arm them.

Maybe they are a good command for me to run as it seems I can never infrequently hit my torpedo targets.  :-

We will see in a few weeks as no game this weekend and my brave French comrades seem to think that we can hold the British attack for another week next time we play. They haven't seen my flank close up obviously, though our Hussars still have the KGL Hussar standard that we took early in the game, much to the consternation of the enemy  :d ;)
 

Very nice, indeed, Paul.

Cheers - Phil

Looking really good.  ;)

No! No! No! No! No! No! No!

NO!

Please, no!  :(

They're really, really attractive.

I now want some.

I don't need this in my life.

I have been considering a new (to me) way of doing naval wargames.  I always hated the look of battleships pinging away at each other from very short ranges. I pondered dividing the playing surface into 3. Force A on one side, force B on the other and a bit in the middle for destroyers to mix it up. Conceptually the two main forces could be very far apart, but the middle ground would be where you might actually get ships of both side appearing.

It's a Work in Progress that I haven't thoiught about for a while. Now, seeing these, I'm reaching for the book on Force H ...

I am, as the Scotsman said, Doomed.  :'( 

Brilliant!
Think Leon might be a bit big, but it's nice you've made one he could actually fit in!

Quote from: fsn on 21 February 2017, 07:47:07 AM
No! No! No! No! No! No! No!

NO!

Please, no!  :(

They're really, really attractive.

I now want some.

I don't need this in my life.

I have been considering a new (to me) way of doing naval wargames.  I always hated the look of battleships pinging away at each other from very short ranges. I pondered dividing the playing surface into 3. Force A on one side, force B on the other and a bit in the middle for destroyers to mix it up. Conceptually the two main forces could be very far apart, but the middle ground would be where you might actually get ships of both side appearing.

It's a Work in Progress that I haven't thoiught about for a while. Now, seeing these, I'm reaching for the book on Force H ...

I am, as the Scotsman said, Doomed.  :'( 

Happy to help Nobby :d :d :d

The three zones is an interesting idea. One of the advantages of pre-dreadnought naval is that the ranges are shorter
The ground scale we will be using is 1cm : 100 yards or 1 : 9,144 so our 1/3,000 scale ships aren't too far out of scale

A three hour basing session last night #:-S

I ran out of filler, paint, PVA mix with four ships left to do ~X(
I was not going to mix up another batch of mix, they will be based with the next lot of ships :-w

The seascape has blended well with the moulded bases of the smaller torpedo boats :) #:-S
As I expected I will need to paint the base to get a uniform colour and complete the blend

Those look really good. The wire masts really make a difference.

Quote from: paulr on 21 February 2017, 06:35:00 PM
Happy to help Nobby :d :d :d

The three zones is an interesting idea. One of the advantages of pre-dreadnought naval is that the ranges are shorter
The ground scale we will be using is 1cm : 100 yards or 1 : 9,144 so our 1/3,000 scale ships aren't too far out of scale

I've been quite fascinated by the Med in 1940-41, before the Germans came in and spoiled the fun. The Italian Navy was in parts very modern and there are quite a few "what if's" with the French fleet in 1940. What if they'd decide to break for Martinique in 1940 as opposed to waiting in port until the RN ... visited them?

Dammit! I know what's going to happen, I do, I really do! 

Definitely an interesting area and period, FSN. Pierre the Shy is keen on the Med but our focus so far has been a little later

Touched up the seascapes in a few places last night

Base coated the next two batches; more Italians and the first of the Australian-Hungarians :)
I'm pleased with the look of the green I've used for the Austrian-Hungarians :)
It will be interesting to see how it works with my planned deck colours :-\

Quote from: paulr on 22 February 2017, 06:27:06 PM

Base coated the next two batches; more Italians and the first of the Australian-Hungarians :)
I'm pleased with the look of the green I've used for the Austrian-Hungarians :)

Can you enlighten us about the Australian-Hungarian navy you are building Paul - even I've not heard of them  ;)

FWIW I painted the Russian Vladivostock Cruiser Squadron last night - Valejo Olive Drab is the recommended shade according to WTJ.

Bloody autocorrect  >:( >:( >:(

No progress on the Austro-Hungarians last night

But I did get the bases for the small torpedo boats painted :)

Very limited progress again last night :(

But I have painted the decks of the Austro-Hungarians so far this morning :)

Reasonable progress today :)

The current batch of Austro-Hungarians and Italians are now painted :) :)
They just need touch ups
The deck colours look to have worked for the Austro-Hungarians  :) :)

Painted the waves and wakes on the last batch :)

Cut out the bases for this batch and those I missed last batch :)

How do you paint your ships?

Hull then decks, decks then hull?

Just asking, if I ever want to ...

Usually hull first for me, basically there's more hull than deck so less effort involved in adding the colour neatly.

Quote from: fsn on 25 February 2017, 10:13:59 AM
How do you paint your ships?

Hull then decks, decks then hull?

Just asking, if I ever want to ...

That's easy. For me it's hull then decks ..... then hull then decks .... then  ~X( hull .... then decks  >:( ~X( >:(  ... then the fr*gg*n hull .....  >:(  >:( >:(

 =O =O =O

Hulls then decks

I usually use two similar but different deck colours for different ships of each navy to add a bit of variety, e.g. Austro-Hungarians Tan Yellow or Iraqi Sand

Then funnel tops, boats, boat covers, boot topping (these little details really lift the ships)

Then touch ups as Westmarcher suggests ;)

Finally a black wash to bring out the details and hide some of the touch ups I've missed ;)

Touched up the current batch :)
I should get the wash done this evening once the touch ups are fully dry

Varnished the last batch, the last of them still drying :) :)
Partly cloudy so light a bit low and variable for photography :(

Painted both sides of the bases for this batch :)
On to the edges which are a bit more time consuming as I have to work in smaller batches :-w

Ships washed :)

First batch of base edges done :)

Edges done on the penultimate batch of bases :)

Magnetic vinyl glued to the first 34 bases :)

I also got to take some pictures yesterday evening :)

The last two Greek destroyers and the Bulgarian navy
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2140_zpsdxmkj7fm.jpg)

Ottoman Torpedo Cruisers, Torpedo Gunboat and Torpedo boats
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2141_zps5e8alkko.jpg)

Ottoman Gunboats
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2142_zpsqhvv7h8z.jpg)

The first of the Italians; Armoured Cruisers, Protected Cruiser and Destroyers
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2143_zps6we3abnn.jpg)

A couple of close ups of the Italians
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2144_zpspmrae4wz.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2145_zpsxqjvqg2w.jpg)

 :-bd

Cheers - Phil.

Brilliant!

Superb. what do the numbers refer to?

The numbers are the Defence factor in General Quarters I/II, for pre-Dreadnoughts 1 per 500 tons displacement

When firing you roll 3 dice; a D10 to see if you straddle and two D6 one for hull and the other for armament damage
You compare the Attack factor to the Defence factor to get a ratio and use that and the D6 result to look up a combat result table to give how much damage is done

The two letter code is the armour class (for pre-Dreadnoughts BB, AC, PC) or ship type for non-armoured ships

Thanks

pretty good work!

Magnetic vinyl glued to last of this batch of bases :)

Will label the bases tonight and hopefully base the ships tomorrow

Bases labelled :)

Prepared and washed the ships of the next two batches, more Italians and Austro-Hungarians :)

 :-bd very nice

Beige, now blue, and I see green in your future (or is it mud) - the vision is murky!  :D

The green fields of France in 1914 are calling d_Guy ;)

Added masts to the next two batches, only 27 this time :)

Sorted current ships onto bases :)
I'm going to have to do this lot of basing in two or maybe three batches to avoid a basing ultra marathon

Undercoated next two batches :)

Quote from: paulr on 02 March 2017, 06:20:48 PM
The green fields of France in 1914 are calling d_Guy ;)

Time for a sea change Paul?  :)

 ;D ;D

Base coated the next two batches; Italians & Austro-Hungarians :)

Summoning the enthusiasm to base 47 ships :!!

Apologies if this is further back in the thread, but what rules are you planning to use? I've got currently unemployed Russian and Japanese fleets for 1904

Hi Jeff,

We use General Quarters I & II with some pre-Dreadnought mods from the GQ Yahoo group.

I've tweaked the mods a bit further by changing the Defence Factors (DF) from 1 per 2,000 tons to 1 per 500 tons displacement and scaled the Attack Factors (AF) appropriately.

They are a simpler set of rules than the more modern GQ III but we use them for WWI, WWII and pre-dreadnoughts and find they give plenty of period feel and play much faster :) :)

Enthusiasm was summoned to base 47 ships :)
Unfortunately real life got in the way :(
But I shouldn't complain about a nice lunch and stroll around town with my wife on a beautiful day :)

We also managed to finish our Napoleonic game last night, all I will say is the Brigade of Guards felt let down by the Scots :) :(

I got the first 14 ships based before breakfast this morning :) :!!

Quote from: paulr on 04 March 2017, 02:42:50 AM
Hi Jeff,

We use General Quarters I & II with some pre-Dreadnought mods from the GQ Yahoo group.

I've tweaked the mods a bit further by changing the Defence Factors (DF) from 1 per 2,000 tons to 1 per 500 tons displacement and scaled the Attack Factors (AF) appropriately.

They are a simpler set of rules than the more modern GQ III but we use them for WWI, WWII and pre-dreadnoughts and find they give plenty of period feel and play much faster :) :)

d
Thank you sir, I'll have a look. Trying to find a set I can use solo till my friend sorts out final version of his rules and does Russian stats.

Quote from: paulr on 04 March 2017, 07:51:58 PM
I got the first 14 ships based before breakfast this morning :) :!!

I have managed to finish and base 4 ships since the order arrived.....  :-[

Quote from: JeffNNN on 04 March 2017, 10:27:07 PM
Thank you sir, I'll have a look. Trying to find a set I can use solo till my friend sorts out final version of his rules and does Russian stats.

Have a look here if you want to get a copy of GQ 1 or 2 http://navwar.co.uk/nav/default.asp?MMID=103

Despite their age they reprinted the rulebooks last year. As Paul says they are a very good set of rules.

Quote from: pierre the shy on 04 March 2017, 11:21:07 PM
I have managed to finish and base 4 ships since the order arrived.....  :-[

I have a few less distractions as my kids no longer live at home, or even in the same city ;)

Based the remaining 33 ships :)

Cut out and prepared the bases for the next couple of batches :)

Finalised the Battle of Elli scenario ready for Saturday evening :)

Waves and wakes painted on the latest batches :)

Good progress on painting the bases for the next couple of batches :)

Decks painted on next couple of batches :)

I can second the call to General Quarters (I/II), they're a rockingly good set of simple, quick and tactical fleet level rules :)

Good luck getting them all on table, sounds like you're at least 50% firing all cylinders ;)

Finished painting the bases for the next couple of batches :)

Painted the details of the next couple of batches :)

Touched up the next couple of batches :)
Managed to avoid the death spiral of

Quote from: Westmarcher on 25 February 2017, 12:34:36 PM
... hull then decks ..... then hull then decks .... then  ~X( hull .... then decks  >:( ~X( >:(  ... then the fr*gg*n hull .....  >:(  >:( >:(

Glued magnetic vinyl on bases for next couple of batches :)

Cut out labels for next couple of batches :)
Will glue those on shortly :!!

Washed next couple of batches :)

Weather cooperated so last batches varnished :) :)

I even managed to take some pictures despite some clouds changing the lighting

The last of the Ottomans, 3 Ironclads
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2193_zpsmwyejsqa.jpg)

Some more Italians, 3 Battleships and 3 Armoured cruisers
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2194_zpsbikz81ue.jpg)

A Gunboat and two Torpedo cruisers
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2195_zpsuuvcwbdm.jpg)

Four Destroyers and ten Torpedo boats
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2196_zpsaqztdpmu.jpg)

The first of the Austro-Hungarians, 9 Battleships
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2190_zpsz0iwoiso.jpg)

Three Protected cruisers and two Armoured cruisers
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2191_zpsjf3o68tn.jpg)

Four Destroyers and eight Torpedo boats
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2192_zps24p0mgy3.jpg)

A close up of the Austro-Hungarian Battleship Monarch (to give a better idea of the 'Montecuccolin' green)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2240_zps3thspngn.jpg)

very nice as usual Paul  :-bd

Just as well the KuK Marine decided to use the names of former rulers for their battleships rather than for their torpedo boats - trying to fit "Erzherzog Ferdinand Max" instead of "74T" on a destroyer sized base would be challenging  ;)

Beautiful, just beautiful.

Top stuff Paul!

Super stuff !  :-bd

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: pierre the shy on 09 March 2017, 07:57:03 AM
Just as well the KuK Marine decided to use the names of former rulers for their battleships rather than for their torpedo boats - trying to fit "Erzherzog Ferdinand Max" instead of "74T" on a destroyer sized base would be challenging  ;)

;D ;D
I did check the length of some of the labels when I was making them ;)
There are a few Italian ones that are nearly as long
A few of the Ottoman destroyer names only just fit ;)

Thanks all :-[ :) :D

Labels glued on bases for next couple of batches :)
I will hopefully get them based tonight  :!!

I got the next couple of batches based last night :)

This morning I dry brushed the waves and wakes :)

Unfortunately it looks as though I will be waiting 6-7 days for varnishing weather, but at least we aren't getting the really heavy rains and flooding they have had up north :-w
I hope the forum members in Auckland and Northland are managing to keep dry

Tonight some of the ships will make their first appearance on table in the Battle of Elli

The completion of these two batches marks the end of this project :o

I have painted and based the following:

Ottomans	43
Greeks	18
Bulgarians	7
Italians	49
Austro-Hungarians	39
Total	156

Quote from: paulr on 10 March 2017, 07:33:23 PM
Tonight some of the ships will make their first appearance on table in the Battle of Elli

A quick AAR can be found here
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,15361.msg228618.html#msg228618 (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,15361.msg228618.html#msg228618)

Nice to see the ships in action -  clouds of torpedoes, the smell of cordite, careers made or destroyed... nice!  :-bd  Ian commented about the great looking shell splash markers, are they commercial or something you created?

Home made, a short nail covered in filler (sparkle), painted blue then heavy white dry brush

The weather cooperated so I got the last two batches varnished  :)

I was busy terrain building so didn't have time to take any pictures  :-[
Hopefully tomorrow

I'm building some walled compounds to bulk out my 'desert' buildings ready for a refight of the First Battle of Gaza next weekend marking the centennial. We will be refighting the attack by the Australian and New Zealand Mounted Division from the north and east.

I finally got a chance to take the last of the pictures :)

The last of the Italians; Battleships, Armoured Cruisers and Protected Cruisers
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2268_zpss34ripq6.jpg)

The last of the Austro-Hungarians; Battleships, Armoured Cruiser, Scout Cruiser, Destroyers and Torpedo boats
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/Balkan%20Naval/IMG_2269_zpsj5xpckhp.jpg)

Simply stunning Sir.

 :-bd

Cheers - Phil

Good show.

It looks beautiful!! inspiring!!!

How OCD should one be to scratchbuild a fleet, i wonder.....

I scratch built a few of these ships in 1/4,800 scale many years ago. It was a time consuming task and you can't really add the small details that really lift these ships ~X( :(

These are 1/3,000 Navwar ships, they had most of the ships I needed an I found appropriate stand-ins for the few they didn't have