We've always been happy to put together custom orders for folks, be it a few figures from one code, a gun without crews from another code, etc. When pricing these orders, we would just work on a base price per figure calculated from the pack prices. At the moment that would be 18.3p per foot figure (£5.50 / 30 foot per pack) or 36.7p per cavalry figure, and then other items like guns or limbers were done in the same way.
Sadly, it's becoming less viable to continue doing things like this. Just to put a mould in the machine and spin it costs about 60p in labour and whatnot, and that's before we take into account the cost of any metal used. So putting together a custom order of only a few figures from a list of codes really reduces our output and can in some cases start to cost us money. We're still happy to do these orders, but we're going to have to start pricing them a little differently:
Foot = 20p per figure.
Cavalry = 40p per figure.
Artillery = £1.25 per gun / 20p per crewmen (based on a 3 gun pack, each with 4 crewmen)
Limbers = £3.00 per limber and horse team (based on a 2 limber pack)
Other items/packs will be priced in a similar manner.
Obviously we won't be charging people more than a regular pack would cost, so if you wanted 28 foot figures this would be the regular pack price of £5.50, rather than £5.60 (28 x 20p). At this point though, you'd be better off just buying the regular 30-man pack anyway, and just having a few spares!
There's likely to be a few queries along the way, so let us know if there's any questions on this.
8)
Hi Leon
Thanks for the info. I, for one, don't have any problem at all with this. I appreciate the great service we get and paying a little extra to cover weird/unusual requests is hardly a great impost.
Incidentally the mountain guns for the Afghan artillery to replace the incorrect 9 pounders have just arrived. It could have waited until my next order but pleased nevertheless :).
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
I agree - no problem with this at all.
You've always been very good about providing the occasional odds & ends I've asked for and it seems a fairly small price to pay to keep the service available.
It may not always sound like it but I think we all realise you're running a business not a charity! :)
Sounds very reasonable to me :)
I always felt a bit guilty about my orders which were mainly part packs :-[ ;D
Still cheaper than at least one competitor's standard packs, don't tell Leon ;)
No problems with that, might teach me to count!
Seems fair.
Not a problem
I think this is very reasonable. Offering customers a bespoke service is still more than most other companies do!
What's "whatnot"?
On the upside, I can see that it's better for Pendraken Incorporated Inc to sensibly price these orders. On the downside, you may be "legitimising" the system, so those who wouldn't normally ask for bespoke may now do so.
No problem at all !
Agree with everything said so far
Absolutely agree. It is only fair to do this, and your willingness to accommodate customers' weird and wonderful requirements is legendary!
Mollinary
....And I agree with Chad and Mollinary !
I can't see anyone being able to genuinely complain that, "That's not fair."
Cheers - Phil.
Fine by me as I often order mixes of figures etc rather than full packs.
No issue with this at all.
Fair enough. Always been amazed by the ease with which you did this.
I think that this is perfectly reasonable and its good that you will still allow us to customise an order. There are a couple of manufacturers out there that will do this ( in other scales) and they charge a "custom pack" price.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 04 January 2017, 11:46:55 PM
No problems with that, might teach me to count!
This is a little worrying as I believe your a maths teacher. ( readers from across the pond please note the correct spelling of the numerical subject has an S on the end :) )
Leon, This is only right and fair. I must also say how absolutely great you are to be so accommodating.
Because of your quality and service I keep looking for ways to use your figures.
Terry
No worries from me on this one.
Its right and proper that fiddly orders are charged a bit extra to cover the extra costs involved.
Quote from: Duckman on 05 January 2017, 03:10:03 PM
This is a little worrying as I believe your a maths teacher. ( readers from across the pond please note the correct spelling of the numerical subject has an S on the end :) )
Shame you spelled 'your' wrong. :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry, 'Ducky' :-[...Couldn't resist that. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
=O =O
Primary (Lower) these days!
You're right, counting is a weak-point, the amount of units that end up short is incredible, mostly as I paint late at night when the brain isn't on!!!
Thanks for the replies, good to see everyone's OK with this.
Quote from: fsn on 05 January 2017, 07:50:25 AM
What's "whatnot"?
Whatnot would be leccy-tricity and gas to run the machines!
Quote from: fsn on 05 January 2017, 07:50:25 AM
On the upside, I can see that it's better for Pendraken Incorporated Inc to sensibly price these orders. On the downside, you may be "legitimising" the system, so those who wouldn't normally ask for bespoke may now do so.
There may be a few people who decide to try some custom orders, but for the sake of a few £'s here and there I think most folk prefer to buy full packs and have some spares laying around.
Will prices on 'bits' still be ad-hoc ("can I get an extra turret for a CHurchill IV please", etc)?
Quote from: Wulf on 05 January 2017, 04:40:30 PM
Will prices on 'bits' still be ad-hoc ("can I get an extra turret for a CHurchill IV please", etc)?
Yep, those would be covered by this bit:
Quote from: Leon on 04 January 2017, 10:25:48 PM
Other items/packs will be priced in a similar manner, basically around a 20% premium on top of the usual price.
So we can still supply them as normal, but there'd be a small price premium on it.
It seems perfectly reasonable - many companies won't or can't split packs. Either due to the effort or that they get full packs from their third party caster.
I bought a load of half packs at the start of the year, and thought it was a bit cheeky to ask. But Leon was absolutely fine. If it would have cost me 50p more a pack, I'd have been happy, and in some cases would have bought a full pack to have a few extras.
No problem! ;)
Very reasonable approach and thanks for informing people. I for one would always be prepared to pay extra for those times when I am looking for flexibility beyond standard packs.
Keep up the great work :)
To be fair the one time I did ask for a custom stuff, I didn't even know how much it cost until I picked it up at the show and paid for it. I just trusted that I wasn't going to get ripped off given who I was dealing with.
Quote from: Duckman on 05 January 2017, 03:10:03 PM
This is a little worrying as I believe your a maths teacher. ( readers from across the pond please note the correct spelling of the numerical subject has an S on the end :) )
Readers in the English-speaking world note that
your and
you're are two different animals, especially before kicking Americans while they're down (as in recent lessons in the built-in effects of democracy).
Quote from: Techno on 05 January 2017, 03:18:43 PM
Shame you spelled 'your' wrong. :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry, 'Ducky' :-[...Couldn't resist that. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
Damn. Preempted!
Grammar nazis make the internet sad!
(https://thequintessentialbibliophile.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/cares.jpg)
Yeah, salt, sugar, penicillin, arsenic...who cares? It's all white powder anyway....
The picture is of a fictitious Luftwaffe Colonel who was definitely not a Nazi...
Quote from: Leon on 04 January 2017, 10:25:48 PM
We've always been happy to put together custom orders for folks, be it a few figures from one code, a gun without crews from another code, etc. When pricing these orders, we would just work on a base price per figure calculated from the pack prices. At the moment that would be 16.5p per foot figure (£4.95 / 30 foot per pack) or 33p per cavalry figure, and then other items like guns or limbers were done in the same way.
Sadly, it's becoming less viable to continue doing things like this. Just to put a mould in the machine and spin it costs about 60p in labour and whatnot, and that's before we take into account the cost of any metal used. So putting together a custom order of only a few figures from a list of codes really reduces our output and can in some cases start to cost us money. We're still happy to do these orders, but we're going to have to start pricing them a little differently:
Foot = 20p per figure.
Cavalry = 40p per figure.
Artillery = £1.20 per gun / 20p per crewmen (based on a 3 gun pack, each with 4 crewmen)
Limbers = £3.00 per limber and horse team (based on a 2 limber pack)
Other items/packs will be priced in a similar manner, basically around a 20% premium on top of the usual price.
Obviously we won't be charging people more than a regular pack would cost, so if you wanted 25 foot figures this would be the regular pack price of £4.95, rather than £5.00 (25 x 20p). At this point though, you'd be better off just buying the regular 30-man pack anyway, and just having a few spares!
There's likely to be a few queries along the way, so let us know if there's any questions on this.
8)
I have used this service from PD a great deal in the past and have sometimes felt I was taking advantage. Let me register that I have no problems at all with paying more for this service and further I think it shows PD as a very professional company.
Cheers, Rob :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Yup, I too am very impressed that you are willing to be messed about by me asking for one of this and two of that when a whole packet is hardly breaking the bank.
Increase away, Leon! :D
Thanks for all the comments!
:-bd
It's a superb service. I've tried not to abuse it! And I'm quite happy to pay a little more for it.
In some instances it may be a decider in choosing 10mm.
Hello,
I have just seen your change in pricing. Everyone seems happy with paying basically 25% more for a custom order. In my first order I purchased figures from the league of Augsburg and a second order was for flags. In the miniature order I ordered a bag of 30 standard bearers.. Now would this fall as a custom order. I am asking because you offer one standard per command group. The flags you sell both have a Colonel and regimental standard each needing a standard bearer. Also I purchased two ready made arimes one allied and one french. In the ready made armies I have pikemen included with no pikes. So to me it is not a ready made army since I have to buy the pikes.
Best Regards,
Jean
Are we favoured with new female gamer in our midst? (Whatever happened to Marie, btw?)
Quote from: jean1951 on 28 January 2017, 08:35:10 PM
Hello,
I have just seen your change in pricing. Everyone seems happy with paying basically 25% more for a custom order. In my first order I purchased figures from the league of Augsburg and a second order was for flags. In the miniature order I ordered a bag of 30 standard bearers.. Now would this fall as a custom order. I am asking because you offer one standard per command group. The flags you sell both have a Colonel and regimental standard each needing a standard bearer. Also I purchased two ready made arimes one allied and one french. In the ready made armies I have pikemen included with no pikes. So to me it is not a ready made army since I have to buy the pikes.
Best Regards,
Jean
Hi Jean
Welcome to the Forum.
Leon may well be along later to explain and correct me., but I will attempt to explain.
The reason we are all happy with paying 25% more for a custom order is two fold.
Firstly many companies will not do custom orders at all, certainly not to the level that of Pendraken.
Secondly it is the additional time and cost taken to produce a custom order:-
A spin of a mould in the casting machine takes about 2 minutes and probably produces the contents of a single pack. In the case of the command pack LOA9 (Command Standing) the Standards are only 20% of the castings. To produce your pack of 30 standards therefore requires the mould to be spun 6 times. This obviously increases the cost of casting by 6 times ( Labour, Electric , wear on the mould etc). The other 80% of figures are useless and have to be thrown back into the melting pot.
So technically the cost of a custom order should be several times that of a standard pack, so at 25% extra we are still getting a very good deal. particularly as the ability to custom order saves us money in the end. If you had gone to another 10mm company that I know does not do custom orders, you would have had to buy 6 packs of command to get your 30 Standard bearers. You would then have had 150 excess figures.
Cheers
Orcs
Welcome, Jean.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: FierceKitty on 29 January 2017, 01:43:59 AM
Are we favoured with new female gamer in our midst? (Whatever happened to Marie, btw?)
Afraid not.
Jean
Moaning
Quote from: Orcs on 29 January 2017, 08:09:03 AM
Hi Jean
Welcome to the Forum.
Leon may well be along later to explain and correct me., but I will attempt to explain.
The reason we are all happy with paying 25% more for a custom order is two fold.
Firstly many companies will not do custom orders at all, certainly not to the level that of Pendraken.
Secondly it is the additional time and cost taken to produce a custom order:-
A spin of a mould in the casting machine takes about 2 minutes and probably produces the contents of a single pack. In the case of the command pack LOA9 (Command Standing) the Standards are only 20% of the castings. To produce your pack of 30 standards therefore requires the mould to be spun 6 times. This obviously increases the cost of casting by 6 times ( Labour, Electric , wear on the mould etc). The other 80% of figures are useless and have to be thrown back into the melting pot.
So technically the cost of a custom order should be several times that of a standard pack, so at 25% extra we are still getting a very good deal. particularly as the ability to custom order saves us money in the end. If you had gone to another 10mm company that I know does not do custom orders, you would have had to buy 6 packs of command to get your 30 Standard bearers. You would then have had 150 excess figures.
Cheers
Orcs
I do not think that Leon has to reply. It is a business decision for the better of the company. Everything that you put forward is true. Rare are the compagnies that do custom orders, the cost of producing etc. I am quite happy with the service received so far, can´r complain really. Which does not mean I have to agree with everything. I find if you voice your opinion for or against it is beniifical to all. I have always thought that the main problem was command packs. My feelings is to have three mould offiers. standard bearer and drummer. The rank and file one mould per different poses.
Mind you in you comment whre they do not do customs then you have to 6 packs to get thirty standard bearers the other option is not to do the project.
Best regards,
Jean
Quote from: jean1951 on 28 January 2017, 08:35:10 PM
I have just seen your change in pricing. Everyone seems happy with paying basically 25% more for a custom order. In my first order I purchased figures from the league of Augsburg and a second order was for flags. In the miniature order I ordered a bag of 30 standard bearers.. Now would this fall as a custom order. I am asking because you offer one standard per command group. The flags you sell both have a Colonel and regimental standard each needing a standard bearer.
Thanks for the message, your bag of standard bearers would now count as a custom order, so it would be £6.00 for the 30 figures, instead of £4.95 (or £5.00 instead of £4.13 as you are outside the EU). As Orcs says above, to get 30 standard bearers we have to spin the mould 5 times and throw away the other figures, so it is 400% extra spins/time for us, but only 20% extra to the customer. Still not a bad deal!
Quote from: jean1951 on 28 January 2017, 08:35:10 PM
Also I purchased two ready made arimes one allied and one french. In the ready made armies I have pikemen included with no pikes. So to me it is not a ready made army since I have to buy the pikes.
I've popped a reply through to your email as well, the army packs are more 'starter' packs so they've got a nice selection to get your army started. The pikes aren't included as lots of folk prefer to either use their own wire, or something different like brush bristles, etc.
Quote from: Orcs on 29 January 2017, 08:09:03 AM
A spin of a mould in the casting machine takes about 2 minutes and probably produces the contents of a single pack.
Yep, spot on with one spin producing a full pack, sometimes with a couple of spares which we can keep in the spares trays for future use. It's about 4 minutes per spin, so 15 spins per hour, producing roughly £75 worth of product. Sounds quite good until you consider that a 28mm company can put 15 figures in a mould, so 15 spins per hour = 225 figures per hour. At £1.20-£1.50 per figure these days, that's a pretty good output!
Quote from: jean1951 on 30 January 2017, 02:21:14 PM
My feelings is to have three mould offiers. standard bearer and drummer. The rank and file one mould per different poses.
The moulds are all setup to produce one pack, so a pack of LoA infantry has all the poses in the same mould. Splitting the moulds into individual poses would mean you'd have to spin 3 or 4 moulds to get enough of each pose to make a pack. You would of course have more than one complete pack, but if you've only sold 1 then you've got 3 more sitting in stock waiting for someone to buy them. We don't have the space for keeping stock unfortunately. Plus that would mean a lot of moulds! There's about 1500 of them already, so splitting the poses would mean 3000-4000 moulds!
8)
Leon,
Thanks you for the reply. Not really worried with the price increase for custom orders.
Best regards,
Jean
Fine with me - all makes sense and very logical.
I'm just happy I can get custom bits now and then.......... *cough* just sent you an email asking for a couple of bits for ECW to be added to my latest order :D
Quote from: Shutuphippie on 25 February 2017, 11:15:47 PM
*cough* just sent you an email asking for a couple of bits for ECW to be added to my latest order :D
:D
All received, I'll drop you an email reply when I'm back in the office tomorrow.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 06 January 2017, 12:02:29 PM
Yeah, salt, sugar, penicillin, arsenic...who cares? It's all white powder anyway....
Sorry, just noticed this. While the intent is proper and understood the chemist in me requires that I say that while sugar and penicillin can take a white powdery form, salt (NaCl) is crystalline and arsenic is a grey metal.
I appreciate the open book explanation of costs vs all the resources and time that goes into it, and its more than fair.
I hesitated on a custom order, but its not the huge hassle I had imagined!
Hopefully next month I'll get around to ordering more Dragonmen for my HQ unit and fairy bitz for my Gnomes
Quote from: ErHo on 25 October 2017, 08:27:07 PM
Hopefully next month I'll get around to ordering more Dragonmen for my HQ unit and fairy bitz for my Gnomes
8)