So i set up a quick game using the easy army builder for the forces (and stats), coloured cubes instead of the order dice, a rough version of the rules (after watching a few battle reports, i tink i can recall enough to try it out) , and my 10 mm skirmish forces with a few of my bkc based vehicles. This should give me a rough idea if i like the game!
And yes i am using my daughters' bonnet to hold the cubes, it was the first thing i could get my hands on ;D ;D ;D
The forces are all mounted in trucks, because i am playing this on the regular dining table wich is a little bit less wide than my usual gaming table. This way i can make them enter the table on turn 1 instead of deploying as usual. that should be more than enough the compensate the loss in table depth. :-bd
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03984_zps74jtcaat.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03984_zps74jtcaat.jpg.html)
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03985_zpsxmfpw77y.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03985_zpsxmfpw77y.jpg.html)
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03986_zpsflh8txuq.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03986_zpsflh8txuq.jpg.html)
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03988_zpsqdh9wo44.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03988_zpsqdh9wo44.jpg.html)
Be interested to see how it goes
Have you based the infantry individually or used bkc bases?
Quote from: Fenton on 10 December 2016, 11:19:54 PM
Be interested to see how it goes
Have you based the infantry individually or used bkc bases?
Individually. So far i have found out that units in a transport can get on very far even on turn 1, so my smaller table speeds up the game quite a bit.
end of turn 1:
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03989_zpsip6j2kp4.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03989_zpsip6j2kp4.jpg.html)
And the first draw goes to the germans, and they roll exceptionally well... :o :o :o :o :o :o
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03990_zpsb96unrai.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03990_zpsb96unrai.jpg.html)
End of turn 2, and the plan to panzerfaust an mmg carrier in the flank went horribly wrong ~X( ~X(
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03991_zpsv1wzgygz.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03991_zpsv1wzgygz.jpg.html)
Both sides down 1 unit. rifle section for the british, but more importantly, the germans have lost their panzershrek.
But with the germans getting first move, they fire their last panzerfaust and do massive daage to the carrier, while the lmg finishes off the piat.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03992_zpsqyfhhzlp.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03992_zpsqyfhhzlp.jpg.html)
Hmmmmmm Flamethrower teams feel pretty overpowered...
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03993_zps2ulu8qtq.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03993_zps2ulu8qtq.jpg.html)
End of turn 3, british barely holding on
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03994_zpsc8lmbcrt.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03994_zpsc8lmbcrt.jpg.html)
And the two armoured vehicles have been missing each other since turn 1....
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03996_zpsk7ea7h04.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03996_zpsk7ea7h04.jpg.html)
edit:
They get the jump with the first order though, and annihilate a squad of grenadiers
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03997_zpskrdoqfge.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03997_zpskrdoqfge.jpg.html)
Edit 2:
And they knock out the flamethrower team!
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03998_zpspa333e7y.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03998_zpspa333e7y.jpg.html)
After that the british mortar Destroyed the german MMG (wich was on the left of the photo), but the germans acted next, and the 251/10 moved up and blew up the halftrack, while the 251/1 mowed down the sniper. I had decided i would play on untill one force lost half of their units (both sides had 12 units), and so the germans won the game.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03999_zpsfdzvdnue.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03999_zpsfdzvdnue.jpg.html)
The british lost: a sniper team, piat team, halftrack, 2 rifle sections and an MMG carrier.
The germans lost: a panzershrek team, grenadier squad, MMG team and a flamethrower team and their schwimmwagen transport
So pretty close game, germans were equally beat up, but managed to clear the centre of everything except the mortar spotter, so i think they are in the better position anyway.
Was a pretty fun game, some things worked very good, some a bit strange. Will have to try some more before i pass judgement though! But first impressions are good, i had fun so that's what matters the most!
That looks good Peter, better than I thought for the 'little fellows'. I had always thought 15mm for single basing was as low as I might want to go, but I think for the cost of a few bags of figures to make up singles (I have the vehicles and multi based infantry), this would be an interesting project. I also have the rule set and some dice from Warlords 28mm starter set, so it would be a really small step for me to explore this.
Looking forward to your considered opinion after a couple of more plays. thanks.
Glad you enjoyed the game, which is what counts really :). I think 10mm works well for small skirmishes, as long as the table is not too big. On a 6' x 4' one with lots of terrain, it might be easy to 'lose' them in the heat of battle. A few years ago when playing CWC in 6mm, my opponent simply did not spot an infantry unit in a wood armed with a LAW (or something similar) and got a bit of a suprise when he advanced his armour towards said wood :D!
Quote from: Norm on 11 December 2016, 05:53:09 AM
That looks good Peter, better than I thought for the 'little fellows'. I had always thought 15mm for single basing was as low as I might want to go, but I think for the cost of a few bags of figures to make up singles (I have the vehicles and multi based infantry), this would be an interesting project. I also have the rule set and some dice from Warlords 28mm starter set, so it would be a really small step for me to explore this.
Looking forward to your considered opinion after a couple of more plays. thanks.
Thanks, i think the 10mm looks good for skirmish, but it might pay off to find some way of 'marking' the models. Being able to tell everything apart from a distance is a bit tricky. Thinking about painting the edge of the base a different colour for rifle, lmg, smg etc...
I can manage, but sometimes it's tricky. I think i will wait a bit for a second playtrough, and adapt the ist i used to have a force without transports. I have enough extra models to put in more infantry, and maybe try some bigger tanks.
Quote from: Steve J on 11 December 2016, 08:44:27 AM
Glad you enjoyed the game, which is what counts really :). I think 10mm works well for small skirmishes, as long as the table is not too big. On a 6' x 4' one with lots of terrain, it might be easy to 'lose' them in the heat of battle. A few years ago when playing CWC in 6mm, my opponent simply did not spot an infantry unit in a wood armed with a LAW (or something similar) and got a bit of a suprise when he advanced his armour towards said wood :D!
Thanks! to be honest, not being spotted before it's too late is actually pretty realistic, so i have no problem with mising something like that!
Years ago playing Battletech on the old hex maps a player didn't see a mech painted in a green and yellow camouflage scheme and got killed. So it's not just the smaller scales this happens in
We played a fair bit of Chain of Command with 10mm figures on a 6'x4' table - works well - looks realistic, really giving the empty battlefield look of modern warfare.
For basing I went with 2 normal infantry on a 30x15mm base, heavy weapon teams on 25mm square and NCOs and officers on 12mm washers. This helped with indentification and with moving lots of stuff around.
A couple of comments on your game Peter - it looks very flat and open. I tended to put in lots of little hills (not even really hills) just rises in the ground to break things up. Also I found lots of random bits of terrain where useful for this too. This may be less of a problem with BA where the weapon ranges are very short. Even if you are gaming Holland then there will be lots of ditches Though these are harder to model on the table. I found I was doing very different terrain for skirmish games than mass battle ones.
Also why are all your troops in big bunches in the open? Spread out and get in cover! ;)
Normally I put some towels underneath the fleece throw, but I decided to have it completely flat. After al I was learning the game so I kept it simple.
Regarding the cover, I misjudged that one. I figured it would have been enough but by turn 2 I realised that the single bases took more space than in my other skirmish games. In USE ME, you use single models instead of squads, so youget much more use out of your cover. Now I had big units with nowhere to go. Will fix this next game.
QuoteThanks! to be honest, not being spotted before it's too late is actually pretty realistic, so i have no problem with mising something like that!
Very true, but I'm more worried about forgetting where my own troops are :D
The towel sounds a good way of getting small undulations.
I do find it takes a game or two to understand what is appropriate terrain wise for different rules.
Quote from: Steve J on 11 December 2016, 12:45:04 PM
Very true, but I'm more worried about forgetting where my own troops are :D
;D ;D ;D
You could always mark them with tokens or little flags...
Quote from: fred. on 11 December 2016, 02:50:39 PM
The towel sounds a good way of getting small undulations.
I do find it takes a game or two to understand what is appropriate terrain wise for different rules.
i think i underestimated the firepower in the game, the cover i had makes the firing model hit on a -1, but when a squad fires 6 lmg+4 Smg + 6 rifle shots, some are bound to hit even at 6+ . i also forgot about the extra -1 for firing at small teams a few times, the piat team would have survived otherwise.
So i couldn't resist giving it another go while the table was still set up. I didn't want to reset so i didn't put any raised areas under the throw, but instead i treated the road as a raised road. You can only see the other side of the board when touching the road, and it counts as +2 cover.I also used a 3" 'dead ground' on the other side of the roadto account for the ditch that would be present. Worked pretty well, and the smaller forces could make more use of the cover available.
a few turns into the game.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC04000_zpskc1hiudh.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC04000_zpskc1hiudh.jpg.html)
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC04001_zpsdokdrabd.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC04001_zpsdokdrabd.jpg.html)
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC04002_zpskxcyfs3s.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC04002_zpskxcyfs3s.jpg.html)
The british dug in and waited patiently, forcing the german left flank to constantly redeploy by issuing fire orders from the FAO. When an artillery strike went of target and straight into the redeployed germans, half of them were killed. A recce jeep armed with MMG seized the moment, and crossed into their half of the table while they were still pinned, and mowed the survivors down!
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC04003_zpspeeopbwe.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC04003_zpspeeopbwe.jpg.html)
The hull down 250/9 was proving a nuisance, so the 6 pdr redeployed to take care of it.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC04004_zps70ukxss2.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC04004_zps70ukxss2.jpg.html)
But it was a lucky shot of a piat that took it out of the game.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC04006_zpskx9bnwjz.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC04006_zpskx9bnwjz.jpg.html)
After that the vickers section took out the german mg 42, and their force broke. This was all that was left (+ a panicked 250/1 on the other side of the table)
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC04007_zpsfoj35sfs.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC04007_zpsfoj35sfs.jpg.html)
The british didn't lose a single unit on their right flank!
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC04008_zpsmjrc9m6f.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC04008_zpsmjrc9m6f.jpg.html)
Love it Peter, thanks for posting! Though I'd like to lobby for some more trees ;)
I've always been a fan of Bolt Action's activation system. Simple and effective in terms of forcing decisions while throwing in some friction and drama.
V/R,
Jack
Quote from: bigjackmac on 12 December 2016, 10:16:10 PM
Love it Peter, thanks for posting! Though I'd like to lobby for some more trees ;)
I've always been a fan of Bolt Action's activation system. Simple and effective in terms of forcing decisions while throwing in some friction and drama.
V/R,
Jack
Thanks!
Well i have a lot of trees, but we are redecorating part of the house, and the boxes with trees are somewhere in a pile of boxes. so no trees at the moment. Only thing i can get my hands on quickly are +- 60 snow covered trees, so i don't bother about that ;D ;D
Stirring stuff!
BA is a fun skirmish game for sure (I can only speak about 1st Ed. as i've not played 2nd ed.).
I'll echo a couple of points you raised:
1. Flamethrowers
Yeah. Love 'em if you got 'em, hate if you face 'em.
They are incredibly brutal, even able to take out enemy tanks with relative ease. Their only downside is vulnerability to enemy fire and short range. this is why my Russians hide their ROKS2 teams within assault units...
Vehicle flamethrowers are just pure dirty...
2. Small team penalty
That -1 to hit is vital to remember as it keeps your special teams alive. It also means your opponent, as you found, can miss spotting a couple of models hidden away in a building or behind a tree...
3. Unit speed
Trucks are essential to get your troops forwards. Mechanised infantry rule BA battles in my view, and as long as you are able to keep the trucks away from enemy fire long enough (and you get the dice pulls in the right order to get the transported units out inb time) rapid advances to close range can be game winning. Roads make it even better (tip, never have a straight road run for more that about 18" - and for one of the scenarios, a stright road from base edge to base edge makes a win guaranteed for trucks/vehicle heavy forces).
In my basic "Russian Assault platoon" build i usually run three AT rifle teams (2 men each). The opponent almost always misses at least one of them hidden away on a flank.
I also have two truck-riding, full SMG teams with flamethrowers that can take objectives on turn one and hold them from counter assault.
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/bolt-action-russians.html (http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/bolt-action-russians.html)
No sweat, Peter, a great looking game, I'm just joking around!
And I'm jealous: I need to get me some snow-covered hills!
V/R,
Jack
Quote from: bigjackmac on 13 December 2016, 09:56:41 PM
No sweat, Peter, a great looking game, I'm just joking around!
And I'm jealous: I need to get me some snow-covered hills!
V/R,
Jack
I use a white throw, only ever need one set of hills :D
The trees look ok too: with a 1/72 flak truck
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC02894_zps17fe56c1.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC02894_zps17fe56c1.jpg.html)
I definitely need to get some.
Or make some. I've got some plastic green pine trees, been thinking of trying to just dust them a bit with white spraypaint.
V/R,
Jack
If you want to buy some, now is the time!
I got those from the christmass decorations of a poundland-type shop for 79 cents per pack of 2! Each pack contaned one big and one small tree see looks varied enough for me.
Hmmm... I hadn't even thought of that. I'm sure they've got smaller ones; I'm looking for stuff that will fit with 10mm and 15mm.
V/R,
Jack
I've jused these with 10mm and they look OK. ever seen how high they can get in real life?
Quote from: petercooman on 16 December 2016, 03:00:03 PM
I've jused these with 10mm and they look OK. ever seen how high they can get in real life?
Yeah, I bought some cheap railway layout trees and then figured the tree in my garden is bigger... and I planted that!
But if you want to be able to move the little men around there has to be some... adjustment...