First off, any and all advice, opinions or feedback is welcome and encouraged.
I'm attempting to make a portable set for Kings of War. The basic idea is to use 10mm figures and convert all measurements from inches to centimeters.
For armies I've decided to do Lord of the Rings inspired orcs vs dwarves using the nice Copplestone line and whatever else I think fits in.
First to arrive were some Eureka dwarves and this being my first go at painting non 28mm figures, I started some experiments. In general I use Reaper's paints so that's what the color names mostly refer to.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_2.jpg)
Primed (which will be washed after basecoating), Pure Black drybrushed with Misty Grey, Russet Brown drybrushed with Chestnut Gold and Yellowed Bone, Pure Black, Primed (will be brushed with "dipp" after basecoating)
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_3.jpg)
Added base coats.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_4.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_5.jpg)
Washed beards and the one face in Agrax Earthshade. The leftmost dwarf got a Nuln Oil wash, the rightmost was brushed with Tudor Polyshade. Anvils were painted with Vallejo Air Metallic black metal.
Very nice indeed, keep up the top work!
Great start and look forward to seeing more stuff.
8)
Cheers - Phil
:-bd =D> :-bd
Interesting to see the different looks you have got
A question that is dogging me is how to base these little guys. I don't want to have to push filler and paint in between them after they are glued down and I certainly can't paint them after they are based.
I noticed that lehcyfer was doing a similar project and used GW's textured paint. A little searching around and I found a youtube video where someone used textured gel or medium and some paint to get a similar effect. Hobby Lobby had some Liquitex coarse gel so I decided to give that a try.
I mixed the gel and some brown pain then spread that over a magnetic base of the type I'm planing to use (it's not the right size and I'm not 100% sure on what sized bases to use) then I pushed some dwarves down into the gel. Next to it is a round base for a 28mm WW2 weapon team made with sanded grout.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_1.jpg)
Next I experimented with both my very strong homemade wash and some GW Agrax.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_2.jpg)
I think the Agrax side looks pretty good. I'll give it another day or so before I test the bond.
I've found the following two methods effective for basing close order 10mm figures (i.e. ones where you can't really get in between the figures)
1) Brown wood filler - spread a decent layer on the base, then work the figure bases into it. Push a little filler over the cast base if you can, a cocktail stick helps here. (This is very similar to the technique you are using)
2) PVA then sand - coat the base in PVA, position the figures, then cover in sand. The why to get a darker base is to mix dark brown paint with the PVA, this colours the sand a medium to dark brown. A brown wash or a quick touch up with brown evens out the colour of the base
I use a similar approach Fred's option 1 but use a mix of filler (Spackle for those in the US), paint and PVA.
I also spread PVA onto the figure bases before pressing into the mixture.
The whole base is then covered with flock and left to try. I usually need to touch up some small areas with flock and PVA.
Those dwarfs were pretty well stuck on. I don't think they'd come off without using a knife.
Now it's down to waiting for stuff to come from the UK. In the mean time I'll do other projects or maybe experiment with using some cork sheets to make stony bases.
Looking good, all the methods!
Have fun with the basing - the advantage of "unit bases" is that you can really make them look like a coherent group in "sort of real looking" terrain :)
Quote from: lowlylowlycook on 15 November 2016, 02:35:53 PM
First off, any and all advice, opinions or feedback is welcome and encouraged.
I'm attempting to make a portable set for Kings of War. The basic idea is to use 10mm figures and convert all measurements from inches to centimeters.
For armies I've decided to do Lord of the Rings inspired orcs vs dwarves using the nice Copplestone line and whatever else I think fits in.
First to arrive were some Eureka dwarves and this being my first go at painting non 28mm figures, I started some experiments. In general I use Reaper's paints so that's what the color names mostly refer to.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_2.jpg)
Primed (which will be washed after basecoating), Pure Black drybrushed with Misty Grey, Russet Brown drybrushed with Chestnut Gold and Yellowed Bone, Pure Black, Primed (will be brushed with "dipp" after basecoating)
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_3.jpg)
Added base coats.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_4.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_5.jpg)
Washed beards and the one face in Agrax Earthshade. The leftmost dwarf got a Nuln Oil wash, the rightmost was brushed with Tudor Polyshade. Anvils were painted with Vallejo Air Metallic black metal.
A good start, looking forward to seeing the results.
If you fancy doing a Kingdom of Men army I have two lots of 10mm late medievals that I no longer require. Just let me know and I can fish then out
I got a package in the mail that was from Copplestone so I have a lot of minis and it's time to get going and an email from Pendraken saying even more stuff is on the way and OH GOD I NEED TO START PAINTING.
Before really getting stuck in, I did a final experiment with what I think should be the fast way to do these dwarves. Basically, paint them blackish drybrush them with metallics then go back and do any details then hit them with black "dip" then highlight weapons and armor again.
The left two were started with Midnight Blue which is a very dark blue. The one on the right is with Blue Liner an even darker blue.
After drybrushing
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_6.jpg)
After painting and highlighting
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_7.jpg)
(Don't mind the Italian that is clearly thinking about how much easier it would be to take on 10mm dwarves than it is to invade Ethiopia)
Seems like it works pretty well.
Here is a mix of dwarves that I'll try to make into a unit. Probably needs a third strip with about 6 or so dwarves to make up a horde.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_8.jpg)
Coming along very nicely !
Cheers - Phil
Liking those
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
I think I slightly prefer the extra contrast of the darker blue but using both will give interesting variety :-\
:- ??? For some reason the Undecided button now seems to need an extra \
And I needed two \ to get one to show ???
Quote from: paulr on 29 November 2016, 07:58:46 AM
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
:- ??? For some reason the Undecided button now seems to need an extra
And I needed two to get one to show ???
I found that happened yesterday when I tried to use it....If you preview, you only get :- coming up.
I'll try the extra \ then, Paul.....:-\...... (Interesting you have to put TWO \ in, just to get ONE to show.)
Huzzah....That works..well spotted, that man !!
Cheers - Phil
The dark base coat, dry brush of silver all over, then paint the other bits. Its a good technique for 10mm armoured troops. I used it extensively on my High Elves, the silver over the black gives a bit of highlighting when you come to paint those areas.
Almost done basecoating these. Cant decide what color their scabbards and shoes should be. Also, right after starting I decided that I can't quite work out what kind of "command" figs the units should have vs. what should be reserved for generals and standard bearers until the package from Pendraken arrives.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_9.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_11.jpg)
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_10.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_12.jpg)
They're looking sharp! I do like that standard bearer quite a bit.
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Excellent !!
Cheers - Phil
They do look very tasty - nice colour palette!
They look good. Boots, I'd just go with brown - at this scale they tend to get lost in the basing quite easily.
Scabbards either blue or the same as the shields. Too many small areas of different colours can end up a bit jarring.
Quote from: fred. on 02 December 2016, 11:22:53 AM
They look good. Boots, I'd just go with brown - at this scale they tend to get lost in the basing quite easily.
Scabbards either blue or the same as the shields. Too many small areas of different colours can end up a bit jarring.
This seemed like good advice, so I took it.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_13.jpg)
Originally I was thinking of adding some gold trim to the shields and helmets but I'm thinking I'll save that for the command models.
[edit] Forgot to mention that I can't take credit for the color scheme. It's basically stolen from something I saw on TMP.
Oh, and here are some orcish experiments.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs1.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs2.jpg)
Lovely work and I agree that boots tend to disappear into the base when flocked.
Yup, look great!
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Orcish experiments successful ;) :)
Right when the orcs were halfway through painting their Thanksgiving decorations on their shields, they were rudely interrupted by a band of Dwarves.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs3.jpg)
These guys turned out all right but I'll have to think a bit about how to best do them and since I'll be mixing in a lot of Pendraken goblins I'll wait until those arrive. Probably should have experimented on one stand at a time.
One thing that I'm noticing now that I'm working on these Copplestone sculpts is that I'm not convinced that, outside of some things like leather boots, they would be improved by a dip.
Maybe that means I need to paint with brighter colors.
Quote from: lowlylowlycook on 03 December 2016, 03:20:50 PM
Maybe that means I need to paint with brighter colors.
In 10mm paint two shades brighter than 28mm
Woooot! Got a Pendraken Package. Now the experiments to integrate them with what I already had can begin.
Mostly the goblins are a bit taller but quite a bit chunkier than the Copplestone orcs. I'm working on splitting them into guys that can join in as largish orcs (mostly the spear goblins for some reason) and those that I'm thinking might make good half trolls or something (everyone with a club).
Here are some prepped CS orcs (still on strips) and PD goblins (in between and on some ends) prepped:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs4.jpg)
I've decided to keep the actual standard bearers for command bases so I've converted a few spear goblins using just bits of paper clip that I'll have to hang something on later. I think I'll need 3 bases of these "regular orcs" and maybe 2 bases of the half trolls.
Then instead of painting the above I messed around with integrating the Copplestone half-orcs with the PD stuff. This time I did it on the unit bases that I was using to get an idea of the scale 10mm Kings of War. One oddity that comes from KoW attempting to stay compatible with Warhammer is that the orcs are on bigger bases than the dwarves or most other troops.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs5.jpg)
The standard bearer is a PD spear goblin with a bit of paperclip pinned into his hand. The guy pointing is from the PD ballista crew.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs6.jpg)
The champion in front is PD and the guy shoving the paperclip into the lens is the other PD spear goblin pose.
Also took a quick look at some dwarves. The bows on the crossbows didn't look so impressive. I'm thinking that if I can make some slightly bigger bows for them then I could those both on the crossbow dwarves and to convert the musket dwarves to crossbows which you be more Tolkienesqe.
Everything else looked good.
Meanwhile I was thinking that I could use one of the armored dwarves as the dwarven general but I think I better keep these guys in their own unit. They could easily be a specialist dragon fighting crew.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_14.jpg)
More mucking about
A few crossbow dwarves made from the musket dwarves:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_15.jpg)
A wedge of dwarf cavalry
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_16.jpg)
The PD wolves are quite tiny. It turns out that the PD riders fit on the wargs from Copplestone. Luckily I ordered a pack of extra wargs on a whim.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs7.jpg)
The four riders on the right are alternating PD,CS,PD,CS
Like your crossbow conversions - " The world is what you make of it, friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations."
Those crossbows look good. How have you made the bow part?
Quote from: fred. on 05 December 2016, 06:57:14 PM
Those crossbows look good. How have you made the bow part?
Long ago, I was trying to make some metal movement trays for WHFB and bought a large sheet of steel. Turns out it was far better to leave that to people with appropriate skills and tools, i.e. Shogun Miniatures. All I did is cut a the thinnest strip I thought I could (Like I said, I'm no metal worker) off with some metal sheers. I just cut that into pieces and then bent them a bit. I was originally going to try boiling some plasticard strips but I couldn't remember where I put my plasticard supply. ;D
Cunning. I wondered if they were brass rod, but they are the wrong colour, and looked fairly flat. I'll remember this if I ever get the thought to convert some figures.
Definitely a DAMN fine job on those crossbows.
Most impressive !! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
Hi
With conversions, might I recommend aluminium flashing similar to this:-
(https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9624bbdf022e3b5395236d5cf8.ssl.cf4.rackcdn.com/Product-800x800/49bba584-c4b2-44a2-9f32-062727ba1817.jpg)
I bought an 8 metre roll for about 4 quid to work on some ship conversions and I now have a lifetime supply :).
Importantly the aluminium cuts with normal scissors. :-bd
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
A test of some Half-Troll warriors, aka Pendraken Goblins of the larger sort. Also pictured is the GW LOTR Troll drummer that I used for inspiration as far as color scheme.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs8.jpg)
They still need a dip, I think.
Looking good, LLC. Like the color scheme and the bronze blades make a nice change.
Seconded, including the dip
I'm liking those colors!
Those are great
Quote from: DFlynSqrl on 06 December 2016, 04:37:21 AM
I'm liking those colors!
Misspelled, and Orceessss is Dk Green !!!!!!
Good stuff though
IanS
I really like those ! :-bd
I'm not sure they need a dip.....Oh.....maybe....But not too 'heavy' !
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: ianrs54 on 06 December 2016, 09:05:08 AM
Misspelled, and Orceessss is Dk Green !!!!!!
To do you a favour, just so you'll know - Orcies here in the New World are much more sultry. :)
Orcs or Orks (JRR's preferred spelling apparently) are variously described as swart, dark skinned, black skinned or looking like mongol tribesmen. No mention of green. Since he invented them I'll stick with those colours.
OTOH they're imaginary creatures so feel free to use your imaginations :)
Here are the dipped half-trolls. I hope to do up the full sized troll today.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs9.jpg)
I also spent some time looking at these crossbow dwarves and wondering what to do with them. I could try and give then new crossbows but that wouldn't be as easy as converting the gunners. This is what I came up with after filing down the crossbow.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_18.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_17.jpg)
Keep in min that this is a conceptual conversion. Is there a place to get weapons and shields for converting 10mm minis? Maybe some 10mm scutums and gladii (gladiuses?) would make for some interesting dwarves.
:-bd
Good stuff.
Cheers - Phil
Like the conversion work you are doing. I am not widely traveled in wargaming circles but have not run into sourcing for just weapons in 10mm as you can find in 28mm. Maybe someone else will know.
FWIW - besides swapping arms with attached weapons - I also make shields and halberd (or ax) heads out of card stock. Once they are stiffened with white glue and painted they look fairly decent. Obviously the card stock is very easy to cut to shape - hence the attraction.
Some orcs have been mostly painted. I probably need to apply some wash to the leather bits, especially boots.
Before I drybrushed some fur and painted shields:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs10.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs11.jpg)
Here are all the orcs now with painted shields:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs12.jpg)
It's probably not easy to see in the last foto but the front rank has had their weapons edged with steel while some of the others have had them edged with a gold highlight. I'm thinking that the gold looks better.
Looking really, really good, 'Cookie'. :-bd
From what I can make out....I think you're right about the gold edging working nicely.
Cheers - Phil
That's a cool looking mass of Orcs. From what I can see of the picture, I do think the gold matches the color of their weapons better.
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Gold highlighted thirded :)
Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement.
I forgot to post this pic of some converted crossbow dwarves. A couple in the back row were converted from crossbow dwarves.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_19.jpg)
8)
Cheers - Phil
Put some base coats on some "half-trolls." Not putting the dark coat on first led to some bright colors but it makes hunting down the nooks and cranies a bit of a pain. Not sure why I didn't throw on a wash first. I did put the liner on their skin once I finished the first stick.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs13.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs14.jpg)
Can't seem to find the edit button so here they are either highlighted or washed.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs15.jpg)
Nicely done
Super looking force ! 8)
Cheers - Phil
I really like these. The dark skin and lighter clothes gives them a very different look. Looking forward to seeing the finished unit.
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
:-bd =D> :-bd
Great thread and very nice looking figures! Inspires me to want to get back on some of my LotR armies, or at least do te Hero element I have planned for my Riders of Rohan - Eowyn, after she has taken off her helmet to slay the Nazgul - "I am no man.".
Terry
Always thought they missed a trick there:
"I am no man!" Said Eowyn, removing her helm.
"Oh sh*t!" The witchking rasped...
Got some base coats on some crossbow dwarves. I think I still need to do the leather bits.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_20.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_21.jpg)
Looking damn fine !
Cheers - Phil.
Nice start
Top work, can't wait to see some based up and ready to play.
:-bd =D> :-bd
Looking forward to seeing these finished :)
Applied some washes to faces, leather and hair.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_22.jpg)
Looking good, that man !
Cheers - Phil.
That's worked well
Started work on the warg riders. First some experiments on the very not large Pendraken wolves (pic isn't the best was just trying out some colors to drybrush and with mixing grey and brown):
I plan to add these to some of the command bases
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs16.jpg)
Then decided to keep things pretty simple with a dark basecoat, drybrush, wash then another drybrush for the wolves.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs17.jpg)
You can see a couple Pendraken goblins on these Copplestone wolves.
Looking good, but what have you done to that poor Smurf??!! :o
I smurfed it, naturally.
Finished up the warg riders. Totally failed to put some kind of fang emblem on their shields.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs18.jpg)
Put some base coats on some more dwarves.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_23.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_24.jpg)
VERY nice. :-bd
Cheers - Phil.
I particualry like the dwarves, very nice painting.
Looking resplendent
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Quote from: Bodvoc on 01 January 2017, 04:07:23 PM
Top work, can't wait to see some based up and ready to play.
So about this. I've been putting off buying bases because I'm not 100% decided on what to do.
In theory this is a stand alone project and thus my fist instinct is to just do all the official unit bases multiplied by .4.
The other way to go would be go with something standardized. From what I gather for 10mm fantasy that's Warmaster basing. From what I remember that ends up not being too different for the dwarves but in KOW the orcs are supposed to have larger units because way back when GW put orcs on 25mm bases and Mantic has carried that forward in KoW.
I plan to get magnetic bases from Shogun Miniatures and he does custom orders so there aren't really any limits to what I could do.
Any thoughts or advice?
Used some washes and a very fine pen on the dwarves
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_26.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_25.jpg)
Just remembered I need to do an edge on the axes. Also I think I missed most of the cheek guards.
Basecoated some orc archers
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs20.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs19.jpg)
As usual, I still need to do the fur and hair. I should really move to doing only non-mammal armies.
I DO like those ! :)
Cheers - Phil.
Top work
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
I do like the Dwarves - what did you do with the pen?
Regarding basing. Warmaster (40x20mm) was certainly the go to basing for 10mm, but I'm not so sure any more. The biggest downside to the 40x20 is that the bases are small so you just end-up cramming figures in, with bigger bases like Warband, KoW or Impetus then you get many more options for displaying your figures nicely, and can alter the density of troops to represent different types better.
Of the bigger based games (Warband, KoW or Impetus) only KoW has specific base sizes (for 28mm figures) the other two are base width driven so there is quite a bit of flexibility.
With KoW in 10mm we didn't bother with the slightly bigger base sizes for Orcs - mainly as we were using WM based figures and it need 2.5 WM bases to do the Orc frontage. For cavalry we did go a bit wider as they are on 20mm frontage. If you are doing bespoke bases then its probably worth going bigger, as certainly when playing 28mm KoW the bigger Orc bases make them very unwieldy as units. But if you don't it won't break the game.
I used the marker to blackline between the yellow and green on the shields and on at least some of the dwarves I did a line between their armor and sleeve.
Ordered some bases.
Put down some metal on some spear dwarves. Currently trying to decide if I should stick with the colors I've used so far or if I should try some red or maybe something else.
It depends on how many units you are planning to have and the look you want for the army :-\
Unless you are going to have lots of units or want an 'assembly of various drawfen tribes' look I would stick with the blue/yellow and green/yellow colours you have been using
Perhaps use different blues, greens or yellows to add variety
One of the advantages of historical armies, these decisions have already been made for you ;)
In my experience, those decisions are only made for you if you find the right book before you paint your army, not immediately after.
Anywho. Decided on some yellow for the spear dwarves.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_27.jpg)
Finished up those orc archers.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs21.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs22.jpg)
Really looking spiffy !
Cheers - Phil.
Very nice
Quote from: lowlylowlycook on 17 January 2017, 04:29:49 AM
In my experience, those decisions are only made for you if you find the right book before you paint your army, not immediately after.
Anywho. Decided on some yellow for the spear dwarves.
Too true ;D ;D ;D
Good choice ;)
Some orcs got a start to painting because I haven't decided what kind of decoration these blue shields need. Maybe some gold?
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_28.jpg)(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_29.jpg)
These uruk-type orcs don't have much cloth showing. I might go with one color for the whole units. And if I don't do something interesting for their shields they might end up a bit bland, in my opinion.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs23.jpg)
Look great.
Blue with white or yellow or gold?
Very nice !
Cheers - Phil
:-bd =D> :-bd
The orcs look great, nice progress. :)
My bases came in. Basically this will be what I'm going for.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_3.jpg)
Cork would be painted as stone. I don't think that the orcs have enough room for any scenery and anyway, the strip bases are pretty substantial so I think it would be hard to integrate into any scenery.
Also, I'm debating whether the banner orc should be moved to the front or if I should stick with compact units.
Anyway, this is my first go at 10mm and actually doing unit basing so any advice would be welcome.
The orcs look cramped to me. Perhaps a few less figures on the base, this would allow a more irregular look to the ranks :-\
I like to make sure banners are protected to some extent by the base so would be inclined to leave him where he is, the banner will make him more obvious when added.
Some people don't like troops bringing their own terrain, e.g. the blue guys on a large stone cliff, other people really love it ;)
I like the scenic bases, they always look good. Yes it's a bit odd that they have some terrain they also seem to be on, but its cinematic and looks good.
I think Paul is right about the Orcs, slightly fewer would probably work better.
Thanks for the advice guys. I don't know if I can bring myself to putting fewer orcs in there but I did let you talk me out of trying to put more orcs in. Also I cut a few of the strips so they might line up a bit less now.
But before I finalize any units there is the small problem of command/hero/wizard/ect. stands, because anything not needed for those might get added to units. I spent a bit (read way too much) time messing around with the 15mm and 20mm bases I have.
For the dwarves.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_4.jpg)
Trying to fit things onto the 15mm bases. Two minis works but 3 is pretty tight.
From Left to right Hero and sidekick, General with bodyguard, Wizard with guard, then two possible banner bearers.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_5.jpg)
20mm bases are needed for some things (like the IP agnostic wizard on a horse and the Riccola dwarf). It's pretty easy to fit 3 minis on the larger bases.
Orcs:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_6.jpg)
Front row is 15mm bases. From left to right Double standard bearer. Single standard bearer. Champion with body guard. General with pendant. Leader on a wolf. Two orc wizards.
Second Row is 20mm bases. Nazgul on horse. Hornblower and pendant on wargs. Drummers (In Kings of War orcs have a special drummer unit). Warlord with wolf and pendant. Badly photographed Nazgul on flying beast.
In the back, surplus command figs.
It's interesting, I think the orcs fit better on the 15s but it would be simpler to keep things . I have a vague idea of having combat leaders on 20s and wizards and banners on 15s. Also I like the idea of all stands that have "Inspiring" (basically banner bearers and generals) should have at least a pendant on a spear.
Just trying to think about what would look good and also be easy to "read" on the battlefield.
Any thoughts would be welcome.
Looking good, I like the idea of having a couple of figures on the hero stands, makes them look more fighty!
For the standard bearers I might go with just a single figure, they are very weak in combat. I like the idea of adding a flag to all heroes with inspiring.
Facing does matter so make sure it's obvious - I.e the wizard on horse who is quite diagonal on the base.
You will want quite a few standard bearers, but the number of heroes depends on your playing style. I always included a few cheap mounted ones in my Kingoom of men armies, mainly to hunt down war engines and enemy casters. For the Elves I just went with loads of wizards to zap stuff!!
Hmmmm. How does facing matter for individuals? Can't be flanked and can turn at the start of any phase. Maybe I'm forgetting something.
I mainly played KoW1, and it didn't matter too much. But in KoW2, a lot was made of having heroes on square bases, and knowing which way they were facing. But I can't actually recall the details, now. I think it was around tightening up some of the rules wording - probably common sense stuff to most of us, but needed to make the rules crystal clear.
It doesn't really matter since I doubt I'd go with any bases that don't have a clear front. In fact all these bases will have to have their front center marked anyway.
You should try Warband. Much clearer on these matters. :D
I agree with Luddite, but will only back him up when Chieftain does too...
Oh..
Okay...
Quote from: fred. on 22 January 2017, 03:04:51 PM
I mainly played KoW1, and it didn't matter too much. But in KoW2, a lot was made of having heroes on square bases, and knowing which way they were facing. But I can't actually recall the details, now. I think it was around tightening up some of the rules wording - probably common sense stuff to most of us, but needed to make the rules crystal clear.
Isn't it to show there line of sight?
Can't charge if they can't see it. Of course this would be a bit stupid as they can change facingin any phase. Maybe it just stops you from charging when you forget to turn the model around.
Some nice models in this thread!!
One thing I'm a bit concerned with is basing the orcs. Their strips are pretty high and steep so I don't think just the textured paint will blend them in.
Would I be better off using a mixture of paint and filler for them? Maybe mix some sand in with that? Basically I think I need more volume after drying than the paint will give.
I use a mix of paint, filler and PVA which does the job once you get the right consistency,
some examples here http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,14686.msg223647.html#msg223647 (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,14686.msg223647.html#msg223647)
and here http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8883.msg177732.html#msg177732 (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8883.msg177732.html#msg177732)
I went ahead with a paint filler sand mix before I saw your comment. The front might need touching up after it dries. We'll see.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs24.jpg)
On the other hand I'm kind of doubting my original conception of having totally different basing since I quite like how these dwarves turned out.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_30.jpg)
:-bd =D> :-bd
Suitably subdued cliffs for the dwarves :)
Looks great
Like those, lots ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
Those dwarves look brilliant :)
:-bd :-bd :-bd
The dwarves have come out very well - the black lining on the shields works well. As does mixing the various figures from the different packs.
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
I think this mock-up for basing the orcs in pretty promising.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_7.jpg)
I basically just cut a layer off the cork behind the facade that should hide the basing a bit and I still managed to get 4 ranks in.
I'm not sure how the orcs might have discovered the color or their sperm or why they insist on being called the red vipers.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs25.jpg)
Also working on some trolls. I think something different needs to be done with their shields.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs26.jpg)
Liking the red vipers.
Yes, I think you are right that the trolls need a little something to lift them a bit - it may be to change the colour of the hammers so they are not the same as the shields?
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Haven't had much time for hobby stuff besides trying to clean up the disaster area that I call a hobby room.
Did manage to try basing those orcs. Seem to have misplaced the standard bearers. Hmmmm.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs27.jpg)
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs28.jpg)
The spikes on the troll shields are quite wicked!
I think the basing works out well with the cork, but my favorite thing about all of them so far is the shield work you are doing. It's really adding some character to the troops.
:-bd =D> :-bd
Niiiiiiice
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Visited my brother. I had to demonstrate the reason why I wanted the scraps of insulation foam laying around his garage for Christmas. Also brought the based 10mm stuff to show off. My nephew insisted that the orcs get a 28mm version for reinforcements while the dwarves got a big, stompy robot.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mil%20is%20SMAAAAAAL2.jpg)
Also changed up the troll weapons a bit. I was considering putting something on their shields but it didn't seem in character for these guys so I guess they are done.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs29.jpg)
Put a base coat on a few dwarves. Once these are done, I think I have one unit of orcs and then character models and then everything will be painted.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_31.jpg)
I like the skin color you picked for your trolls.
Quote from: lowlylowlycook on 07 February 2017, 12:43:28 AM
My nephew insisted that the orcs get a 28mm version for reinforcements while the dwarves got a big, stompy robot.
Makes perfect sense!
They are some of the first models he's painted so I was flattered by the support.
:-bd =D> :-bd
Changing the weapons has really improved the overall look of the trolls :)
Your Nephew looks to have done a good job on his first models :)
Superb
Quote from: lowlylowlycook on 07 February 2017, 12:43:28 AM
My nephew insisted that the orcs get a 28mm version for reinforcements while the dwarves got a big, stompy robot.
I want "big, stompy robot" to be added to all OOBs! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Great stuff ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Things I can't seem to freehand onto shields:
Lidless eyes
Canine fangs
Spiders (damn their 4th pair of legs)
I guess this last unit of orcs could be the blue constrictors.
Lines removed from LotR as being too silly. "Orcsssssss we haaaateeees them. They squirt lemon juice in our eyes. Yeesss. My Preciousssss."
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs30.jpg)
But maybe I can do lidless eyes... This is just practice before I paint the shields to cover my messy drybrushing.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs31.jpg)
Opinions? Do people like the large or smaller "eyelashes"?
Smaller
I'm with Will, if it's possible to do smaller. :-\
Cheers - Phil
I ended up going with the short lashes except for the center down lash that I accidentally enlarged once and decided that it filled up the shields a bit.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmOrcs32.jpg)
I'm not sure I've ever done this much free hand on 28mm models. I like the way this scale forces you to simplify.
They have come out very nicely !!
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
:-bd =D> :-bd
Yeah, they turned out really well!
Thanks guys. You've really helped me stay focused on this. Which can be a problem.
Put some Polyshades onto the armored dwarves and the half trolls. Well, maybe they are armored half dwarf/half giants or something. With exceptional beards.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_32.jpg)
Earlier I had put a wash on the bow and mounted dwarves but I forgot to take a pic.
Space Invader shield designs? Or are they bedbugs?
8)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: FierceKitty on 10 February 2017, 06:53:18 AM
Space Invader shield designs? Or are they bedbugs?
You didn't recognize Shelob? You must be terrible at 10mm pictionary.
Varnished and matted the minis.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_9.jpg)
Also made and basecoated the bases.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_8.jpg)
Running out of time to avoid deciding on command basing, painting command figs and doing pendants, etc. Gah.
Very impressive force, LLC. 8)
Cheers - Phil
I await the nex bit with interest
I like thos dwarves in full metal plate !
Quote from: jchaos79 on 12 February 2017, 07:06:03 PM
I like thos dwarves in full metal plate !
I put them front and center for you.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_10.jpg)
Orcs
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_11.jpg)
I think the orcs need some kind of wash on the dirt and probably add some flock too. Not as much stuck to the filler compared to the textured paint on the dwarves. You might notice that the bases of the armored dwarves needed the filler.
After that, I'll add a couple turfs to each base.
Nicer
Looking good for both. I like that blend of yellow you put in the Dwarves' grass. I think it gives some life to the bases.
:-bd =D> :-bd
I particularly like the two level effect on the dwarf bow ;) :)
Very nice, indeed ! 8)
Cheers - Phil
Cracking stuff, but where are the elves?
Quote from: DFlynSqrl on 13 February 2017, 01:41:11 AM
Looking good for both. I like that blend of yellow you put in the Dwarves' grass. I think it gives some life to the bases.
Yeah, I like to mix things up a bit with the flock. You might like the basing I did on my 28mm Ethiopian troops:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/Eucalytus%20logs_1.jpg)
Quote from: paulr on 13 February 2017, 03:21:34 AM
:-bd =D> :-bd
I particularly like the two level effect on the dwarf bow ;) :)
I don't think you can really see it here but the crossbows are also on two levels.
Quote from: Bodvoc on 13 February 2017, 07:30:10 AM
Cracking stuff, but where are the elves?
The whole point of this was to be a very self contained project. I just wanted something that I could travel with and play with people that don't usually play wargames (basically my father and nephews and maybe a neice or two and my brother). Kings of War provides the very simple, easy to teach rules as well as unit basing. 10mm minis provides the portability and the ability to play on a small table.
Going further than this raises a bunch of questions. Certainly there is no need to add another army unless someone really takes to playing this with their crazy uncle...
As for the very real temptation to do more LotR inspired large battle stuff: What rules would I use? Since most games are pretty flexible these days, what kind of basing should I do? Why doesn't Copplestone sculpt me some elves? Why not 6mm?
Congratulation for the two armies completed! Well done. :-bd
Yep, that is some nice basing!
8)
Cheers - Phil.
Put a wash on the orc bases and then put on some tufts to try and hid any bases that were showing.
Then I took some closeups. Probably should have put a 28mm figure there for scale.
Half Trolls
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_33.jpg)
Uruks
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_21.jpg)
Wolf riders
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_20.jpg)
Archers
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDWarves_basing_18.jpg)
Armored and Mounted Dwarves
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_17.jpg)
Rangers
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_16.jpg)
Crossbows
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_15.jpg)
Spears
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_14.jpg)
Double handed axes
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_13.jpg)
Axes
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_12.jpg)
Quote from: jchaos79 on 14 February 2017, 12:58:50 AM
Congratulation for the two armies completed! Well done. :-bd
Stay on target. Stay on target....
Put some base coats on the command figs. Also need to work on flags and pendants which I've never done before. Any advice?
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mil%20is%20SMAAAAAAL3.jpg)
These look cracking!
As to flags - paper ones work really well for 10mm. Have a hunt around on google for images you like, if you are lucky you will even find some flags that someone else has made. Then you can shrink them down to the right size for your figures. Print them out, use a thin layer of pva to glue them together, around the flag pole. Put a bit of a curve to them using the handle of a paint brush so it looks like the wind blowing. Then when dry give the white edges a quick paint of the right thinned down colour
They look really good and I enjoy seeing all the units lined up like that.
Like Fred mentioned you can always go with paper. I've heard that the rice paper used for Chinese brush calligraphy is really good for drawing flags, shaping and painting. It supposedly takes the paint really well without bleeding/smearing. I just bought some off of Amazon, but I haven't had a chance to try it out yet.
Bronze highlights on pendants are you friend!
Sketch out your ideas for the standards and shields first, then you know what you are painting, using your finest brush.
Lovely looking armies. :)
Excellent work ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 14 February 2017, 08:18:13 PM
Bronze highlights on pendants are you friend!
This confused me until I worked out that I had confused pendant with pennant. ;D
Did some more work on the heroes/command figs:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mil%20is%20SMAAAAAAL4.jpg)
[edit]
Trolls got left out!
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mmDwarves_basing_19.jpg)
Excellent !
Cheers - Phil
Nice one
I've got to think about how to actually base the command units.
I guess I should put them on cork to make them match the height of the other units and make them easier to handle but I wonder if they'll start getting top heavy and there won't be room to do anything interesting with the cork.
Command units based. The orc mage almost was forgotten so is still drying.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mil%20is%20SMAAAAAAL6.jpg)
Still need to do pennants and flags but I'm leaving town for 3 weeks this Saturday. Don't think I'll get to it.
All but the command in one plano box
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/moonrang/10mil%20is%20SMAAAAAAL5.jpg)
I think we'll call that portable.
Corking!
Definitely ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil.
Looking good!
Brilliant, 2 armies in one box! :)
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Well done that man =D>
Thanks guys. You all were a real source of help and inspiration.
When I get back home I should really get back to finishing my 28mm Italians and Ethiopians but while I was cutting up my cloth terrain and listening to a D6Generation interview with Rick Priestly I started wondering if I should consider doing a pair of 10mm armies for Beyond the Gates of Antares. Locally we've been playing quite a bit of Bolt Action and BtGoA sounds a bit better as a game, it's just that none of the factions have really spoken to me.
Then again 10mm minis are pretty small for individual basing.
I guess I should look around here for what people have done with 10mm on a skirmish scale.
The two KoW armies in a box are great - they have really come together nicely.
Quote from: lowlylowlycook on 19 February 2017, 07:32:06 PM
I started wondering if I should consider doing a pair of 10mm armies for Beyond the Gates of Antares. Locally we've been playing quite a bit of Bolt Action and BtGoA sounds a bit better as a game, it's just that none of the factions have really spoken to me.
Then again 10mm minis are pretty small for individual basing.
I guess I should look around here for what people have done with 10mm on a skirmish scale.
We've played a bit of Chain of Command, WWII skirmish, with 10mm figures. I went with a mix of single based on washers and pairs on 30x15mm bases. Single based generally for NCOs and officers, pairs for most of the normal troops. Heavy weapons got 2 or 3 figures to a square base.
The advantage of the pairs is that there are less small things to move around - the disadvantage is that you can't spread out as much.
Probably the biggest downside is that it can be quite hard to tell stuff apart - this isn't too bad in WWII where you have fairly limited troop types. But in Sci Fi it could get complex.
Well, the portable KoW set made it's way to the Atlantic coast and my nephew and I played a couple games here at the beach.
More specifically on the coffee table in my room.
Orcs line up against the dwarves. The red "houses" are the objective markers.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4302/35397131993_56a3687b95_o_d.jpg)
Hiding behind a wall is a typical dwarven trick
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4312/36034922802_815a951b65_o_d.jpg)
The full lines have clashed. Note the lonely unit of half-trolls in the background...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4312/35365655954_e2acc0dbc5_o_d.jpg)
Most of my orcs are outflanked and about to be eliminated!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4325/35365653834_699e0d2090_o_d.jpg)
However the dwarves' stumpy legs betrayed them and they weren't able to reach any of the objectives in the last turn. My half-trolls therefore won the game by being camped out in safety next to an objective.
Bonus pic, my nephew teaching his sister how to apply a wash to the zombie she painted. He set up an improvised paint station in my room here.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4305/35809536910_5438cf7ed4_o_d.jpg)
Cool stuff - I'd forgotten how good these armies look.
And good work on getting the next generation gaming too.
Nice work fella(s)!
Great work all =D> =D> =D>
I particularly like the younger generation ignoring the big screen tv :)
Quote from: paulr on 28 July 2017, 02:39:21 AM
Great work all =D> =D> =D>
I particularly like the younger generation ignoring the big screen tv :)
That is a sight to warm the heart!
Excellent !
Cheers - Phil
Sister's expression seems to say "I just painted this figure and now he's going to splash gunk all over it?"
;D ;D ;D
:-bd :-bd :-bd
Quote from: paulr on 28 July 2017, 02:39:21 AM
Great work all =D> =D> =D>
I particularly like the younger generation ignoring the big screen tv :)
It's more amazing that they aren't looking at their phones 😄
Very cool. Great way to spend down time.
Quote from: fsn on 28 July 2017, 07:17:14 AM
Sister's expression seems to say "I just painted this figure and now he's going to splash gunk all over it?"
;D
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
I neglected to mention that in the second beach game my both forces got out their nerf swords and therefore were stuck in the middle of the battlefield. My nephew won because his one unit of dwarf rangers was the only one entirely on his opponents side of the board.
The results of the beach games was that my nephew decided that "his" dwarves needed some more firepower. Since almost immediately after the beach vacation I had to run out to my brothers house for a good 5 days of babysitting I took the opportunity to bring some gunner dwarves and slightly higher quality brushes so my nephew could paint them.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4421/36355939801_4a2de8d0da_o_d.jpg)
Not bad, in my unbiased opinion. He said that it was fun but that he thought painting 28's was better. To be fair that was pretty much my opinion after painting my first unit of 10mm dwarves. It grows on you.
Definitely a good start at this that age :)
He's pretty good you know!