Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => Firelocks to Maxims (1680 - 1900) => Topic started by: cameronian on 07 November 2016, 07:54:53 AM

Title: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 07 November 2016, 07:54:53 AM
If anyone asked me 'what book should I start with if I want to get an idea about the military side of the war of 1866' I would unhesitatingly answer, Gordon Craig's 'Koniggratz'. So you SYW buffs, what's the SYW equivalent ?
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Glorfindel on 07 November 2016, 09:09:08 AM
I would probably suggest "The Military Experience in the Age of Reason" by Christopher Duffy,
closely followed by "Armies of the Seven Years War" by Digby Smith.   The first is superb as
an overview of the era while the second gives information needed by a wargamer.


Phil
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: fsn on 07 November 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Wow!  :o

I'm not a big fan of the fluffy century, but I have two books on the subject - "The Military Experience in the Age of Reason" by Christopher Duffy, and "Armies of the Seven Years War" by Digby Smith.

Gosh! I may have done something right.   :o

They are good primers on the subject.

Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Steve J on 07 November 2016, 09:49:50 AM
The Duffy book is superb and a great place to start.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: FierceKitty on 07 November 2016, 09:52:30 AM
I add my voice whole-heartedly to the above chorus.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Sunray on 07 November 2016, 09:53:19 AM
Quote from: fsn on 07 November 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Wow!  :o

I'm not a big fan of the fluffy century, but I have two books on the subject - "The Military Experience in the Age of Reason" by Christopher Duffy, and "Armies of the Seven Years War" by Digby Smith.

Gosh! I may have done something right.   :o

They are good primers on the subject.



You do a lot of things right Stewart, I have just referred an undergraduate student to your post on T34V A4 Easy Eight (Korea) as a good example of how to make a point and buttress it with scholarly citation via footnotes.

Cheers

James
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 07 November 2016, 12:23:57 PM
I've got Duffy, ordered Digby Smith, any thoughts on the Caliver series - Armies and Uniforms of the Seven Years War Vols 1, 2, 3. Also any thoughts on Prof Szabo's new offering ?
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: FierceKitty on 07 November 2016, 12:29:16 PM
The "18th Century Press" books are dismally written; I rather regret wasting my cash, so avoid them.  Do you know this site?

http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Main_Page

You don't need much else for painting guides.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: mollinary on 07 November 2016, 12:50:47 PM
The excellent Dennis Showalter, who wrote a brilliant book on the Wars of German Unification, has also written a splendid volume on this period. -The Wars of Frederick the Great.   I would thoroughly recommend it as a start.  Duffy's Military Life of Frederick the Great is also very worthwhile, as you would expect from a man of Duffy's stature. I think it appears in a number of editions, including a slightly different title.

Mollinary
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Glorfindel on 07 November 2016, 07:31:31 PM
I've got the Caliver series - an excellent source with wide, detailed
coverage.   I would certainly recommend them.

However, I don't think you can beat the Kronoskaf site for sheer
wealth of information (particularly given that its free !).


Phil

Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Hwiccee on 07 November 2016, 10:32:16 PM
Quote from: cameronian on 07 November 2016, 12:23:57 PM
Also any thoughts on Prof Szabo's new offering ?

Szabo's book is good I think. He gives a history of the whole war and not just the typical 'What Frederick' did accounts which don't even tell you all about the war against Prussia, His book links the different theatres of war in Europe together and so gives a good overall view of the war. Szabo's work is also one of the few in English that argues the common view expressed in other languages that Frederick was not that good a general. The key to this is that the Prussians survived the SYW, rather than won it, despite Frederick rather than because of Frederick. This is a valid argument but I suspect Szabo pushes it too far.

A good book and interesting contrast to most English accounts, but a good argument spoilt by the obvious dislike of Frederick.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 08 November 2016, 07:49:34 AM
Thanks to all. I'll buy the Szabo as well, always thought the soubriquet 'the great' should have been awarded to Maria Theresa not furtive Freddie.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: FierceKitty on 08 November 2016, 08:15:12 AM
In all fairness, he was up against most of Europe in the war, wrote well enough to catch Voltaire's eye, wasn't shy of a musical evening with Bach, no less, passed some good laws, and enjoyed a joke at his own expense.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Hwiccee on 08 November 2016, 11:28:55 AM
Quote from: cameronian on 08 November 2016, 07:49:34 AM
Thanks to all. I'll buy the Szabo as well, always thought the soubriquet 'the great' should have been awarded to Maria Theresa not furtive Freddie.

and

Quote from: FierceKitty on 08 November 2016, 08:15:12 AM
In all fairness, he was up against most of Europe in the war,.

Szabo doesn't talk about this but arguably the odds facing Maria Theresa in the WAS were greater than those facing Frederick in the SYW. Both had it very easy compared to Charles XII of Sweden earlier.

Szabo and others have pointed out that the two sides were a lot more even than is commonly stated in English works. Also Frederick started the war and so if he was against the odds that was his fault. They also point out that Frederick 'lost the war' but got lucky and managed to get a draw out of it.

Worth a read I think if you are interested in the period.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: FierceKitty on 08 November 2016, 11:55:31 AM
Agree entirely that the war was Fred's fault, and that he was damned lucky to survive it. Likewise that Maria Theresa was a most impressive woman.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Westmarcher on 08 November 2016, 07:01:02 PM
When you've finished reading the above, Cam, His Britannic Majesty's Army in Germany by Savory is another one that springs to mind.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 09 November 2016, 05:58:18 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 09 December 2016, 08:11:08 AM
Showalter and Szabo ordered and Santa is on his way. Just received Fierce Kitty's 6mm SYW army all the way from Siam and very nice they are too. Looking forward to starting a new period and in a different scale (though my heart is forever 1866  :-* ). I was looking at some of Christopher Duffy's books on the period and was astounded at the prices, in excess of £300 for his most recent one on the Austrian Army, library loan for this one I think.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 09 December 2016, 08:15:35 AM
Don't forget ILL for it.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 09 December 2016, 10:03:14 AM
ILL ? Got me there.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Westmarcher on 09 December 2016, 10:05:43 AM
£300 would make anybody ill.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Ithoriel on 09 December 2016, 10:11:36 AM
ILL - Inter-Library Loans. The system whereby libraries can access each others lending stock (and reference stock too, sometimes). Usually done for a modest fee from the borrower. Fee often levied for the search for the item, not necessarily delivery of it.

It's a world-wide system - I once had a book that had been sourced from the library of the University of Hawaii and delivered to the City of Edinburgh public library.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Westmarcher on 09 December 2016, 10:22:50 AM
I got hold of Savory's His Britannic Majesty's Army in Germany that way.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 09 December 2016, 12:43:32 PM
Ah yes, should have known, my wife is a librarian.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Hwiccee on 09 December 2016, 12:54:49 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 09 December 2016, 10:11:36 AM
ILL - Inter-Library Loans. The system whereby libraries can access each others lending stock (and reference stock too, sometimes). Usually done for a modest fee from the borrower. Fee often levied for the search for the item, not necessarily delivery of it.

It's a world-wide system - I once had a book that had been sourced from the library of the University of Hawaii and delivered to the City of Edinburgh public library.


I used to use this a lot but at least in my area (UK west midlands) it seems to have been cut back/messed around. They won't get a lot of stuff for you and the costs are rising & not refundable. Universities are particularly reluctant to lend any more and I was basically told to 'go away' when I last tried :(
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 03 January 2017, 12:11:15 PM
Very disappointed with Showalter, the man can't write clear English. Szabo more promising.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: PERKY on 21 January 2017, 12:13:04 AM
May I suggest The Army of Maria Theresa and Fredrick the Great (A military life)both by Christopher Duffy  ;)
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: FierceKitty on 21 January 2017, 12:25:30 AM
Quote from: cameronian on 09 December 2016, 12:43:32 PM
My wife is a librarian.

There's no shame in that.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: fsn on 21 January 2017, 10:39:26 AM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 21 January 2017, 12:25:30 AM
There's no shame in that.
Indeed not! There's something about a librarian. The organised mind, the retention of odd but interesting information, the supressed sexiness. James Bond said that he would like to marry an air hostess. For me, the librarian is much more the ideal!
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/cos.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/14/25/53a0869226a8d_-_cos-anne-hathaway-glasses-0411-med.jpg)
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: FierceKitty on 21 January 2017, 11:25:10 AM
Mmm, I actually worry a bit that I find women with spectacles so cute. Do I have a mild disability fetish, or am I just a protective caveman type?
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Leman on 21 January 2017, 01:12:59 PM
Jeez, never thought of myself as disabled. Back on thread, why not try The Ladybird Book of the Seven Years War?l =l
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: cameronian on 22 January 2017, 05:14:08 PM
Perhaps its subconscious, as in, they are less likely to see me, warts and all, so I've got a better chance  ;)
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 22 January 2017, 05:42:17 PM
Quote from: Leman on 21 January 2017, 01:12:59 PM
Jeez, never thought of myself as disabled. Back on thread, why not try The Ladybird Book of the Seven Years War?l =l
Is there one?
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Leman on 23 January 2017, 08:24:17 AM
Not that I'm aware of. I tend to think of Ladybird books as a 1950s thing, and at that time I don't think they would have been too keen on a book dedicated to a German hero. They did do Alfred the Great and Alexander the Great though.
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 23 January 2017, 10:49:23 AM
Just it might be too advanced for my reading level, but I'm sure my Mum could read it too me at bedtime!  ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: FierceKitty on 23 January 2017, 11:32:24 AM
Quote from: cameronian on 22 January 2017, 05:14:08 PM
Perhaps it's subconscious, as in, they are less likely to see me, warts and all, so I've got a better chance  ;)

That must be it. :)
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Ithoriel on 23 January 2017, 02:34:08 PM
Quote from: Leman on 23 January 2017, 08:24:17 AM
Not that I'm aware of. I tend to think of Ladybird books as a 1950s thing, and at that time I don't think they would have been too keen on a book dedicated to a German hero. They did do Alfred the Great and Alexander the Great though.

Alas, no SYW that I can see .... but definitely not your 1950's image :)

https://www.penguin.co.uk/series/LBGU/ladybird-books-for-grown-ups/

(https://www.penguin.co.uk/content/dam/catalogue/pim/editions/181/9780718183530/cover.jpg.rendition.186.288.png)(https://www.penguin.co.uk/content/dam/catalogue/pim/editions/120/9780718183516/cover.jpg.rendition.186.288.png)(https://www.penguin.co.uk/content/dam/catalogue/pim/editions/102/9780718184438/cover.jpg.rendition.186.288.png)
Title: Re: First book to read on the SYW
Post by: Leman on 23 January 2017, 05:34:23 PM
I always wished there had been a Ladybird Book of Ladybirds.