Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Non-Wargaming Discussion => Chat & News => Topic started by: Ithoriel on 20 October 2016, 11:47:41 AM

Title: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: Ithoriel on 20 October 2016, 11:47:41 AM
Lets you spin the image to see the interior of a PzIV turret. An interesting oddity. Claustrophobia in a tin :)

http://storage.net-fs.com/hosting/3912593/2/index.htm
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: Steve J on 20 October 2016, 11:58:04 AM
That's pretty cool, but a tight squeeze to say the least.
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: paulr on 21 October 2016, 04:45:41 AM
Fascinating
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: Westmarcher on 21 October 2016, 09:08:34 AM
Fascinating, indeed. Full of sticky out hard things to bump your head on. You can also see where equipment like the canteen (feldflasche) is stowed. However, I wonder what "Erst Zurrungen losen, dann richten" means? Google translate is not very helpful* [e.g., leucht pistole (flare gun) is translated as 'luminous pistol.'].

*Google ~ "Only lashings loose, then set(?)"
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: Wulf on 21 October 2016, 09:57:22 AM
There are a load of videos of tank details - with interior shots, but no panoramic videos - linked to the World of Tanks game, but real tanks in various museums - mostly by a guy called 'The Chieftain' - his YouTube channel seems to be 'TheChieftainWoT', but I can't access YouTube from work to see if they're all there. They all looks cramped & hard to work in, some look like they need a crew of contorsionists...
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: toxicpixie on 21 October 2016, 10:12:31 AM
From TankNet, user Panzermann -

Quote"Erst Zurrungen lösen, dann richten"

first unlock travel lock of the cannon (and/or turret), then start aiming

it is to remind the gunner (Richtschütze -> literally "aim shooter") to check if travel lock is engaged before taking aim


As an aside my Uncle worked with a bloke who drove tanks at the back end of WW2, and said that he and his fellows had been in awe of the German VunderTanks thinking them amazingly crafted weapons of war, engines of terrible, precision engineered destruction. Then they got in a few intact captured ones, and were appalled - build quality, performance and design awful compared to the Shermans or Cromwells they'd driven, terrible ergonomics (not that he said ergonomics - "sharp edges and corners everywhere, no room to move or do anything and everything was in the wrong place").

Said it gave him a different respect for German tankers, going to war in such contraptions.

I don't know what marks he saw, but as it was NWE I'd guess PzrIV and Panther.

Random unsupported anecdote for the day, there. Does fit with the gunners seat view on the link though!
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: toxicpixie on 21 October 2016, 10:15:33 AM
Quote from: Wulf on 21 October 2016, 09:57:22 AM
There are a load of videos of tank details - with interior shots, but no panoramic videos - linked to the World of Tanks game, but real tanks in various museums - mostly by a guy called 'The Chieftain' - his YouTube channel seems to be 'TheChieftainWoT', but I can't access YouTube from work to see if they're all there. They all looks cramped & hard to work in, some look like they need a crew of contorsionists...

The Chieftain does some excellent videos and talks and discussions, very often from first hand experience.

Was it the A series Cruisers took nearly ten minutes for the driver to get in, and the rest of the crew couldn't start until he got out the way. And then he couldn't get out till the rest had squirmed and wriggled free... I can understand why early British tankers bailed often and early if that's the case. You can't wait till you KNOW your in trouble/been hit/are on fire, you have to start getting out at the very first suspicion or you're toast :(
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: Womble67 on 21 October 2016, 12:57:46 PM
Very interesting

Take care

Andy
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: Steeleye on 22 October 2016, 07:32:53 AM
I've watched a lot of 'The Chieftains Hatch' videos. As an ex-tankie (on Chieftains) I'm horrified at the conditions under which tankers had to work and fight. The Chieftain wasn't exactly 'spacious' but it was at least well laid out with only a few things to hit you in the temple!
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: toxicpixie on 22 October 2016, 09:32:35 AM
Yeah, thats one thing Western tank designers really took hold of - stems from Sherman and later British designs. If you want the crew to fight effectively you have to give them the space and safety to do so!

Postwar NATO designs designed & built under relative pressure free conditions are usually good examples; without th  need to go from spec to field "YESTERDAY TOO SLOW ARRRGH!" they tend to be much more workable for the crew.
Title: Re: Panzer IV Turret From Gunner's Position
Post by: Luddite on 22 October 2016, 10:48:30 AM
Roomy compared to the British Chieftain turret (inside begins at 6.50).