The table is being cleared. A lot of books being read, uniforms and kit checked. Korea is an interesting but neglected theatre for wargames. I would argue there are at least six good reasons for considering a Korea game:
1. A lot of WW2 kit can be recycled. Only a few items of new kit like the Centurion, the M20 bazooka etc
2. Several leading 10mm figure manufactures are planning/designing a new range of figures and "Rumour Control" speculates that it is Korea. One report from a "reliable source in S/w Wales" (an oxymoran if ever there one ?) is Techno already has produced the entire range, but has given them the cover name of "Very Late Aztecs" to thwart industrial espionage. ;D ;D.
3. Rules. I have looked at CWC. Not impressed. I will game with BKC with additional kit. ( There are errors in OOBs.(inclusion of Comet etc and correct appreciation of early KPA high morale factor) There is actually a good argument to include Korean war in the BKC and not CWC. Tactically if not politically it fits the WW2 era).
4. The early war period has some great game potential. Like the punitive Task Force Smith and other scenarios where UN forces are inferior in armour and AT weapons - and need that crucial dice ( -1 because of the terrain) to get air support. If it don't come they are toast.
5. Loads of 1950s era aircraft models in 1/144. I even sourced a micro model Bell helicopter in the right scale. Oz Models and Revell have all the rest.
6. The US still used rail to transport troops north (as in battle of Osan) - the N Gauge train rides again!
The early war is fluid and fast moving. The Inchon operation allows us to blow the dust off all those landing craft that have been gathering dust on the shelves since D Day. TimeCast have a range of Far East buildings (and some from Crimea range) that will do at a pinch. I might even complete that 1/144 Aircraft Carrier I have started last winter....
Quote from: Sunray on 13 October 2016, 09:46:41 AM
2. Several leading 10mm figure manufactures are planning/designing a new range of figures and "Rumour Control" speculates that it is Korea. One report from a "reliable source in S/w Wales" (an oxymoran if ever there one ?) is Techno already has produced the entire range, but has given them the cover name of "Very Late Aztecs" to thwart industrial espionage. ;D ;D.
Leave me out of this, James. ;D ;D ;D
It's too much fun, seeing Ian get
all cross.
Cheers - Phil
IIRC Korea was going to be dropped from the CWCII version as it was really much better suited to BKCII.
Quote from: Techno on 13 October 2016, 09:57:32 AM
Leave me out of this, James. ;D ;D ;D
It's too much fun, seeing Ian get all cross.
Cheers - Phil
Keep your eyes peeled Phil, If you see a fat woolly Texel with night vision goggles ....hide those Very Late Aztecs masters. ;) ;) Leon is like the President - he must have innocent deniability as to what's really going....
Quote from: Steve J on 13 October 2016, 10:20:28 AM
IIRC Korea was going to be dropped from the CWCII version as it was really much better suited to BKCII.
Thanks Steve. It does make so much better sense. It also proves how much military development slows up after a conflict ends, and armies downsize with a small defence budget. Old kit stays in service. I find it fascinating how the UN threw together very unsuitable forces, raw recruits and thus you end up with Chaffee tanks facing T-34s, and obsolete bazookas, and 105 howitzers with HE and no AP.
It was indeed fortunate that the Irish Hussars were in strategic reserve and trained up on the Mk III - Centurions were deployed by Nov 1950. But the Hussars also had a Reccie platoon of Cromwell as the Americans had advised that the roads were not suitable for heavy tanks. The Centurion was to prove them wrong.
Tactically using the Cromwell for recon makes perfect sense.
APCs. I know that Kangaroo APCs (converted Shermans) were used by the British Army as late as 1952. None seem to have been deployed to Korea. I have seen images of the Oxford Carrier (some with a tilt). Has any forum member any intel on APCs in Korea ?
Might have to dust off the Max Hastings Korean War tome.
If one might ask, are these late Aztecs in sumer or winter kit?
In all seriousness, the Korean war would be bonzer to launch Pendraken into the modern era. As Sunray says, most of the kit is WWII or already realeased, and the main thing we're missing is ... infantry.
From memory the main bits of kit were the T34/85, late Shermans, Pershings(?), Cents and Cromwells.
Only thing we're missing is the Oxford carrier.
DEfo Pershings - more M46 than M26 later on, gradually replacing the M4A3E8. The Marines used some M4/105 with a co-ax flame throwers. The SK's also used some M36.
IanS
Quote from: fsn on 13 October 2016, 12:41:26 PM
If one might ask, are these late Aztecs in summer or winter kit?
Go away ......You OIK !
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 13 October 2016, 01:26:30 PM
Go away ......You OIK !
Cheers - Phil
To be fair, it is the BIG question about these Very Late Aztecs (VLA) . We had a similar debate over the Falklands range. If you go winter then its Korean only in terms of use as everyone is in padded jackets cocooned like Michelin men. If you go "summer" (and it is southern hemisphere) - then you have a range of clothing that compliments late WW2 as far as early Americans are concerned. Later British (like the Ulsters and Glosters) have a nifty combat smock and trousers which would also do for late WW2 (apart from the 44 pattern). My favourite is 41 Independent Commando in US kit/weapons with only the Beret to show they are on a Pusser's holiday.
The best fun will be with the ROK and KPA whose light order and caps (summer dress) will have many applications in post war third world armies.
I am NOT doing a secondary batch of Aztecs in quilted jackets.
SO THERE.
Cheers - Phil
FWIW - ChiCom infantry in quilted jackets, if tightly bunched, MAY look like Aztecs with their feathers blown off! :D
Quote from: d_Guy on 13 October 2016, 02:01:24 PM
FWIW - ChiCom infantry in quilted jackets, if tightly bunched, MAY look like Aztecs with their feathers blown off! :D
+ 1 ;D Good cover story Techno - They are Very Late Aztecs who have had a bad feather day.
Leave me alone !
(I'm going back to listening to early AC/DC....It's more peaceful. :P ;))
Cheers - Phil
QuoteIf you go winter then its Korean only in terms of use as everyone is in padded jackets cocooned like Michelin men
I get your thinking Sunray but I'd love to see winter war covered as well. Would be worth doing because anyone doing them would have to buy bucket loads of Chinese/North Koreans. Also sculpting wise it's not a lot of extra work just adding padded jackets to the summer versions once cast, remould and away you go.
Plus I've already started on winter stuff :D
(http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/MattofMunslow/e4b7eb0a-40b4-4242-95ba-242165ac5b8b_zpsjcl2ak8f.png)
What a nice Centurion in terms of paint, detail and basing ! Yeah, you are good to go. The one thing I am learning about the Korean war, is its diversity. The winter/spring (and I must correct an earlier typo - 38th Parallel is in Northern Hemisphere) battles around Imjin (April 51) are another world from the retreat to Pusan. I know gamers who like early WW2 as opposed to the Desert war or Post D Day. Some game all three and ...the eastern front if you love T-34s.....
I just wonder how many wintered Centurions (their crews constantly changing the gears to keep them from freezing) are out there waiting for the Chinese to arrive......
The decision as to what period(s) of Korean war figures will be made is with the Pendraken Head Shed. But its good to know your views. It proves the viability of a Korean figure range.
I will let Phil comment on the sculpting. One comment I will venture. The first winter caught most of the UN unprepared. The Brits issued the WW2 vintage windproof Smock (I still have my 1970s pattern) and the leather jerkin. By the second winter they were issued with Parkas (there was both US and British versions). By late war the Flack Jacket was also in issue - From personal experience I can testify that they are warm when sealed up.
Quote from: Techno on 13 October 2016, 01:58:40 PM
I am NOT doing a secondary batch of Aztecs in quilted jackets.
SO THERE.
Cheers - Phil
Couldn't you just make the jackets? Then the infantry can put the jackets on when they get cold.
Probably have to make coat hangers to hang the jackets on.
But how would the figures know which is theirs?
You'd have to put little name tags in each jacket.
Well that all seems sensible enough.
Quote from: fsn on 13 October 2016, 07:18:56 PM
...
Well that all seems sensible enough.
It does seem sensible! Particularly is you make armoires to store them it. The armoires would make wonderful proxies for privies and would be suitable for any period after about 1500!
Quote from: Sunray on 13 October 2016, 04:19:29 PM
The decision as to what period(s) of Korean war figures will be made is with the Pendraken Head Shed. But its good to know your views. It proves the viability of a Korean figure range.
I will let Phil comment on the sculpting.
:-\
Well..... For yours truly, it wouldn't be a
massive job to change the chaps from summer to winter clothing.....Though a bit longer than might be apparent at first glance.
Then, how far do we take it ?....It's all extra time and cost for Leon and Dave for sculpting (me) and mouding.
Would everyone that went for the original range, go for (buy)
all the potential variants ?.....That
might make it viable in the long run.
Otherwise the sculpting and moulding costs get would higher and higher, because the range(s) would effectively be competing against each other.
("I'm going to wait until such and such comes out.....So I'll give this lot a miss.")
I like the idea of different versions, as a very long term project. ('Cos it keeps me busy) .....But, as I said above, I'm not sure whether it's a 'goer' from Leon and Dave's point of view, straight off.
As James says......It'll be up to the 'Chiefs'.
Guy.....Will you
stop encouraging Nobby ? ;)
He's bad enough, as it is. X_X
Cheers - Phil
Thanks Phil - a decent piece of market research frothing here.
My modest research would suggest four changes of uniform in the Korean war :
1. The initial KPA invasion. KPA in summer gear. Rok in summer gear and passable as US in light belt order - lots of caps. US as in 1945 kit, Brits in tropical.
2. The first winter of 1950. KPA go winter gear as do ROK. Brits dig out WW2 smocks and leather jerkins for 29th Brigade. October 1950 CPLA enter war winter gear.
3. Summer of 1951. CLPA in summer wear
4 Winter of 1952 - parkas and well designed gear arrives for UN contingent - the Commonwealth contingent gets the M52 trousers and jacket which will become the M58. In the summer the 'Hat Horrible' - a peaked field cap was issued, but the practical bush hat or status beret remained.
Apologies for not going into detail concerning Aussie, Canadian, French, Belgian, Columbian, Dutch, Turkish, Ethiopian, Indian and ...Thai (I kid you not, US fatigue overall and WW2 Adrian helmet) variations.
Quote from: Matt J on 13 October 2016, 03:37:28 PM
I get your thinking Sunray but I'd love to see winter war covered as well. Would be worth doing because anyone doing them would have to buy bucket loads of Chinese/North Koreans. Also sculpting wise it's not a lot of extra work just adding padded jackets to the summer versions once cast, remould and away you go.
Plus I've already started on winter stuff :D
(http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/MattofMunslow/e4b7eb0a-40b4-4242-95ba-242165ac5b8b_zpsjcl2ak8f.png)
Nicely painted and weathered
Take care
Andy
While I am this mainly for the privies - the Korean War is the ONE thing beyond 1871 that holds my interest. October 1950 to Spring 1951 would be the time period that I would concentrate on. (Although Summer - Fall 1950 would be a good 2nd choice and easier to model I'm thinking.)
Hi
I was just thinking (apart from the hope that the troops could be re-purposed as 1930s Chinese warlord troops :) ) that a Pony Wars/Science vs Pluck (I'm also looking at the original With Pyjamas through the Desert Gilder rules) treatment could be fun. With either a solo or cooperative game having hordes of enemy popping up against the UN troops. You could build communication difficulties, etc into the game. Something to think about once I've stopped blundering about in the Pike and Shot period.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Quote from: Sunray on 13 October 2016, 09:41:32 PM
Apologies for not going into detail concerning Aussie, Canadian, French, Belgian, Columbian, Dutch, Turkish, Ethiopian, Indian and ...Thai (I kid you not, US fatigue overall and WW2 Adrian helmet) variations.
You forgot the New Zealanders, Filipinos, Greeks, and probably others
Once we get back from the show this weekend I'll start putting together some lists for everyone to see. We can then finetune them with any feedback/suggestions.
8)
QuoteMy modest research would suggest four changes of uniform in the Korean war :
1. The initial KPA invasion. KPA in summer gear. Rok in summer gear and passable as US in light belt order - lots of caps. US as in 1945 kit, Brits in tropical.
2. The first winter of 1950. KPA go winter gear as do ROK. Brits dig out WW2 smocks and leather jerkins for 29th Brigade. October 1950 CPLA enter war winter gear.
3. Summer of 1951. CLPA in summer wear
4 Winter of 1952 - parkas and well designed gear arrives for UN contingent - the Commonwealth contingent gets the M52 trousers and jacket which will become the M58. In the summer the 'Hat Horrible' - a peaked field cap was issued, but the practical bush hat or status beret remained.
Apologies for not going into detail concerning Aussie, Canadian, French, Belgian, Columbian, Dutch, Turkish, Ethiopian, Indian and ...Thai (I kid you not, US fatigue overall and WW2 Adrian helmet) variations.
Sounds good. If the budget allowed, Belgians and Turks would be good as extras. The former for Imjin the latter because they were hard b**tards and did alot of fighting (although I confess I'm not fully clued up on their kit and equip)
Also the yanks need some additional poses
The infantry 'someone shot at us, quick desert the position' pose
And the US marine 'lets retake this position by insane frontal assault because that's what we do' pose
:D :D :D
Quote from: Matt J on 14 October 2016, 12:25:13 AM
Also the yanks need some additional poses
The infantry 'someone shot at us, quick desert the position' pose
And the US marine 'lets retake this position by insane frontal assault because that's what we do' pose
:D :D :D
This is the bonus of 1950 normal (summer) dress order. We get the WW2 American Infantry figures to beef up what is a weak range in terms of sculpts. The RoK mostly in caps - have a wide range of applications. From US Rear Echelon to Third World 60s-80s militias.
Just one vehicle missing - the Soviet Gaz 67- if sculpted with a hood if would have WW2 use. The KPA also had numerous motor cycle combos - some of these were German WW2 machines.
The Korean War will never command the interest of WW2 or even Vietnam. It has no popular blockbuster "Bridge too far" or "Full Metal Jacket" epic movies to inspire. How many Arnhem games did that movie inspire?
Yet some good movies have come out of South Korea.
Field of Honour or
In to the Fire. If you can tolerate sub titles have a look at
Taegukgi on youtube. A Korean epic in the All quiet on the Western Front genre. I discovered it whilst teaching Conflict Studies.
That said they will never be on Free View, stimulating wargamers, however I suggest they will give you a flavour of what the bloody civil war means to the Korean people.
On the film side, the two that stick in my mind are:
"A Hill in Korea" with a great British cast including a very young Michael Caine (who was also military adviser as he fought in Korea) and "Pork Chop Hill"starring Gregory Peck.
There's also "M*A*S*H" and "The Bridges at Toko-Ri" for air buffs.
There are also many, many more including some more recent South Korean ones that I can't remember and some absolutely dismal anti-commie 1950's budget efforts.
As to the range to be produced, might I attempt to educate the Dark Lord in the matter of ova osculation? Perhaps a definite stance on the whole summer/winter/1950/1951/1952 question, with a view to a phase 2 expansion, probably into the other season, should sales of the first range go well? IM not so HO, I think that the period selected should be after the Chinese intervention, and I think that a summer uniform would a) fit better with most gamers' existing scenary and b) be more suitable for other periods/ranges.
Quote from: d_Guy on 13 October 2016, 07:58:03 PM
It does seem sensible! Particularly is you make armoires to store them it. The armoires would make wonderful proxies for privies and would be suitable for any period after about 1500!
Quote from: Techno on 13 October 2016, 08:29:16 PM
Guy.....Will you stop encouraging Nobby ? ;)
He's bad enough, as it is. X_X
Can we get a high-5 smiley? :D
o/''\o :D
Thought o/''\o was Admiral Ackbar?
(https://static2.stuff.co.nz/1360362937/932/8282932.jpg)
Side thought - and I'm only asking a question here - would US cold weather Korean Was be suitable for Battle of the Bulge? (For all you King Tiger buffs.)
Suitability depends on the winter year. For 1950s winter, some of the Ardennes range might indeed pass muster, (do the trousers have the para cargo pocket ?), but as the M1951 issue of clothing gets around to being "issued" the differences are apparent even in 1/150 scale.
The inter war innovation is the Parka which replaces the WW2 great coat. The Korean habit of wearing the fibre pile hat UNDER the helmet also dates the figure to that conflict.
M46 nearly done will finish of today and M45 :D
Quote from: mart678 on 14 October 2016, 02:01:33 PM
M46 nearly done will finish of today and M45 :D
The poor wee tanks are doomed without infantry supported. Do you hear me Dark Lord..Doomed.
Cheque's in the post, James. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: mart678 on 14 October 2016, 02:01:33 PM
M46 nearly done will finish of today and M45 :D
You're not making tanks, your just driving Britain's motorway network,
Dam found out was about to do the M1 :D :D :D problem is there are no L roads or C roads or T roads
M75 and M59 also M108 possibly
M108, awesomely obscure road!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-108_(Michigan_highway)
Musn't forget the SU76 for the North Koreans.
South Koreans had some M8's the Chaffees and M36s from Spring '51.
US used M26 Pershings, M4A3, later the M46 Patton. Also the M39 Armoured Utility Vehicle (APC), M7, M41 SPG. DUKW, LVT3 and 5(?) used at Inchon. M3 half track and various armed variants.
Brits used Churchill VII (& Crocodile?), Centurions, Cromwells and Oxford Carriers. Dingo, Bren Carriers
Canada had the M4A3E8 and the M10.
I'm guessing most of the UN forces would be using US and/or British equipment.
Artillery was all WWII.
M39
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/M39-Armored-Utility-Vehicle-1.jpg)
Apart from the LVT, M39, M41 and Oxford carrier, everything in that list is in the Pendraken catalogue or darned near it. The M39 and LVTs would be nice, but there's a lot to go on with.
Looking at Korean War histories (like I need more stuff to be interested in - or - in which to be interested)
Read Blair's The Forgotten War some years ago and
seeing that Fehrenbach's is considered a classic (but dated).
Any recommendations for a good read on the subject?
Max Hastings "the Korean War' is my go-to book.
Pork Chop Hill is very good, being the memoirs of the chap on the ground
edge of the Sword by Farrah-Hockley is a gripping account of the stand of the Gloucester.
.
There were no flame trailers in Korea. The Hong Kong Squadron had Churchill Crocodiles without the trailer, and supplied the first British armour.
IanS
Agree with FSN Max Hastings really good read
Quote from: fsn on 15 October 2016, 04:13:03 AM
"Pork Chop Hill" is very good, being the memoirs of the chap on the ground
Or not ... being written by SLA Marshall.
I would also add "Triumph at Kapyong" by Dan Bjarnason. An account of the Canadian 2nd Battalion of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry having an equally bad time.
Thanks for the recommendation just got the Hastings book on Kindle. I always gave SLAM the benefit of the doubt (having read Men Under Fire before question were being publicly raised). David Hackworth convinced me otherwise.
Quote from: fsn on 15 October 2016, 09:00:14 AM
I would also add "Triumph at Kapyong" by Dan Bjarnason. An account of the Canadian 2nd Battalion of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry having an equally bad time.
They were Canadian, don't you know. From Canada.
Sorry for the deplorable standard of posting chaps. I know I may contribute rubbish, but I try and make it grammatically, and where necessary, factually accurate rubbish. My only excuse is I had a really bad week in work last week, doing hours that a Junior Doctor would recognise.
Rumour control update; unconfirmed reports that a man was seen in a Middlesbrough pub making out a list of figures under a heading "Very Late Aztecs ".
If you should encounter this individual, tell him I no longer need the Whirlwind helicopter- Grumpy Old Man found me one.
Quote from: d_Guy on 15 October 2016, 12:51:35 PM
(having read Men Under Fire...)
To continue the Auto de fe' begun by fsn, it is - of course -
Men Against Fire. Tricky thing, memory. While "under" more or less expresses the thesis In a subliminal way, it was not the word the author used, therefore I am well and truly sorry.
The Hasting's book is a great read!
Quote from: d_Guy on 17 October 2016, 01:09:34 PM
To continue the Auto de fe' begun by fsn, it is - of course - Men Against Fire. Tricky thing, memory. While "under" more or less expresses the thesis In a subliminal way, it was not the word the author used, therefore I am well and truly sorry.
The Hasting's book is a great read!
Any scenarios that would translate to table top ?
I am still at about August of 1950. At this point the scenarios would be variants of:
"You are the commander of a rifle company of American infantry comprised of three rifle platoons ( two BAR each) and one ad hoc weapons platoon provided by Battalion (two 81mm mortars, one .30 MG, and one Recoiless Rifle - Jeep mounted with HE rounds only). Your company first sargent has also scrounged a 2.5" bazooka with 8 AT rockets. You are in a rocky position (moderate slope) about 150' above a road junction with roads converging from the North and Northeast before passing South to your right. The last orders you recieved from Battalion HQ - before losing contact over two hours ago - are to 'Hold your position and deny road passage to the enemy' There has been heavy firing to your Northeast for the last hour and fifteen minutes ago your position was straffed (no casualties) by what was probably a North Korean plane (but may possibly have belonged to US Marines). You are aware that neither of your flanks are covered.
You now see a column of T-34 tanks (14) approaching from the North and a Battalion of enemy infantry advancing in line from the Northeast.
The artillery FO is unable to reach your assigned 105 battery for fire support.
Good Luck."
Lord help me - I am being sucked into this - and my FPW project gathers dust - oh for the discipline of PaulR! :)
Nice scenario. Captures the spirit of the early war.
(http://www.popcultsure.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Ackbar-620x330.jpg)
Here's an off the cuff one for a bit later on.
"You are a shavetail Lt commanding a platoon of Shermans. The front has broken and you're desperately trying to get back to what you hope will be your lines. You've lost a tank to a mine, and a second has had its running gear so badly damaged it can barely move above a fast walk. In your retreat south, you have picked up a number of hangers on. A veteran top sgt has organised a group of about 30 into something approaching a fighting force, but you're aware that there's about another 30-40 who are either wounded or shell shocked. You won't necessarrily be able to depend upon these men to fight. You convoy comprise 3 trucks, an ambulance and two jeeps. The jeeps mount MGs, The Sgt has equipped his men with 5 BARs and 2 .30 calibre MGs. Most of the rest carry carbines or rifles.
The road goes due South and is about to enter a defile, with slopes to either East and West. These slopes are boulder strewn and you know you wouldn't be able to get your tanks up them, but infantry could operate quite efficiently. The corporal in your No 2 tank just reported seeing movement on the crest to the east. You think you hear what sounds like bugles.
At the other side of the ravine you hope to meet friendly forces. You feel the eyes of the world upon you. It's up to you to save these men and restore some honor and pride to your unit, the USA Army, and the American flag.
Good luck."
Quote from: fsn on 18 October 2016, 07:15:51 AM
Nice scenario. Captures the spirit of the early war.
(http://www.popcultsure.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Ackbar-620x330.jpg)
"It's a trap!!"
Quote from: d_Guy on 18 October 2016, 03:07:33 AM
Lord help me - I am being sucked into this - and my FPW project gathers dust - oh for the discipline of PaulR! :)
Wait till I give Paul some 10mm Belgians to paint........(he has agreed to do them already ;) )
Quote from: d_Guy on 18 October 2016, 03:07:33 AM
I am still at about August of 1950.
Lord help me - I am being sucked into this - and my FPW project gathers dust - oh for the discipline of PaulR! :)
Guy, I think you have succinctly captured the mood of those desperate days of August 1950. Its like France 1940, but with the vital difference that (i) does not end in Dunkirk and (ii) the Allies quickly achieve air superiority. Now the UN troops thrown into the line did not know that it wouldn't end in Dunkirk . (In terms of morale the US Marines swaggered off the boats). Mind you its nice to play BEF 1940 and defeat history !
In my modest research into Korea, I have sourced declassified US military intel. It throws up interesting aspects for rule revision. The CAS (close air support) is up a gear from WW2. The intel shows that the majority of T-34s were victims of air strike. However the T.34's was tough enough to merit an upgrade from the 5" HVAR to a shaped charge 6.5.
So the UK can call airstrikes. But in the early days without FACs you run the risk of Blue on Blue. There were two major such incidents in 1950, so its got be a risk reflected in the dice.
The use of settlements and hamlets in a FIBUA style defence has also merit. It allows cover for the Bazooka crews to stalk the T.34. The "I got me a tank"
scenario - At Teojon on 20 July ,no less than ten T-34s were destroyed by 3.5 bazookas. Nothing in the rules to prevent an M20 team being airlifted in by chopper as an option?
It is also an error to paint the NKPA as a T-34 + infantry formation. Count in jeeps(GAZ -67B), the BA64 and motor cycle combos. Around Pusan parameter M4A3s suffered in encounters with 45mm anti tank units.
Korean has a lot going for it. For me its the balance in the early war of superior armour (T-34) versus the dice roll of superior air power (if it can be acquired). You need all your wargaming skill........+1.
Quote from: fsn on 18 October 2016, 07:15:51 AM
You think you hear what sounds like bugles.
Agree with Pierre, this is probably not the 24th Infantry Division band. :)
Like your top Sargent who I think was my PysEd instructor in high school.
I am particularly drawn to scenarios that are very asymmetric. Depending on your perspective, the Korean War seems to offer a large number.
Have you considered using the good admiral as your sig photo? :D
Quote from: d_Guy on 18 October 2016, 01:06:00 PM
Agree with Pierre, this is probably not the 24th Infantry Division band. :)
Like your top Sargent who I think was my PysEd instructor in high school.
I am particularly drawn to scenarios that are very asymmetric. Depending on your perspective, the Korean War seems to offer a large number.
Have you considered using the good admiral as your sig photo? :D
You hear bugles - Could be the Chinese ! Or it could be the irrepressible Bugle Major Martin, Durham Light Infantry . The DLI had to thaw their bugles before answering the Chinese.
Oops! Posted on top of you Sunday.
Hasting's account of Task Force Smith stuck in my head. The major impressions were the Americans suffering from the idea that their mere presence would cause the North Koreans to turn tail. (See this often in college football games). Also they suffered from being under equipped, under supplied, and vastly under informed. Their communication, at best, were faulty. To the plus side, they generally had excellent senior NCO's
For me to get into wargaming this period I would be on an almost insurmountable learning curve (at my age :))
Given my normal interests, the Chassepot rifle and the Mitrailleuse look like something out of Star Wars. :)
No worries Guy- My old friends on the forum call me James (Techno reverts to Dr Jamie when I make demands ) Less demanding on spellcheck.
I suppose I have played WW2 to death, and Korea offers that new perspective, weapons and challenges.
For example, to your scenario . A small chopper (Bell 47 - $7 dollars Micro Machine ebay) is sighted passing at height. Dice 3+ you attract it.
It lands. The passenger is a US Marine Colonel Special Advisor (Pendraken MC11). He says an RoK column with understrength company with one 105 mm and 5 rds AP is approaching from the North.
No 3+ dice, no liaison with Marine Colonel and a dice roll of 5/6 to prevent blue on blue (Believe me Americans are trigger happy).
RoK take a morale check. If they stand they are given a 3/30 . I give my KPA units a 3/30 and veterans (many served with Chinese in ww2) a 4/30.
Helicopter can be tasked to source more ammo.
KPA make entry onto table. (currently the dollies are on Techno's work bench as I type) and a pair of BA -64 (Pendraken SV53 -buy one get one free) comes down the road. Do you take them out with the 105? Or chance it with bazookas and keep you 105 as the ace in the hole?
God those new T-34s from Marty (SC9) look cool.......
Like the additions Sunray! - you are stretching my knowledge base.
Given the propensity for friendly fire and the aforementioned straffing run - the men of first platoon, unsure of what that buzzing thing is, rip up
the helicopter with their BAR's. :)
I am trying to resist this whole thing but the scope of Korea IS much more manageable then WW2.
I am no thinking of a new period, I am not, I am not, I am not
How are the Korea enthusiasts planning on depicting the often rugged Korean terrain :-\
From my limited knowledge a lot of the fighting seemed to involve major hills and steep slopes
Quote from: paulr on 18 October 2016, 07:06:44 PM
How are the Korea enthusiasts planning on depicting the often rugged Korean terrain :-\
From my limited knowledge a lot of the fighting seemed to involve major hills and steep slopes
Interesting point. I would have no problem using an enlarged contour map although much would depend on the organizational level you plan to play. I know nothing about rules for period and next to nothing about TO&E. First impulse is to use Chain of Command (and hopeful someone has already adapted it to Korea) so I could probably use my idosyncratic piles of terrycloth squares for steep hills.
Once you are finished with your DBA stuff maybe..... :)
Quote from: paulr on 18 October 2016, 07:06:44 PM
I am no thinking of a new period, I am not, I am not, I am not
How are the Korea enthusiasts planning on depicting the often rugged Korean terrain :-\
From my limited knowledge a lot of the fighting seemed to involve major hills and steep slopes
Good point. One reason why my preferred period is early war with the KPA blitzkrieg to Pusan perimeter and the Inchon landings . But for the later war, two options exist:
(1) I cracked this when I gamed Korean in 6mm., and updated it to 10mm when gaming SCW. You have a few impassable peaks (papier-mâché or Model Railway Mountain tunnels with the tunnels closed) . The other hills become more symbolic in contour - as indeed most elements on the table are symbolic (six houses = town etc or how Vietnam wargamers construct an impassable dense jungle with 30 odd trees ) and the actions - as in all wars tend to focus on bridges, commanding ridges and those vital cross roads.
(2) Talking of contours, one old trick is to build the mountain in contour-like layers (say 4mm thick in polystyrene sheets) and smooth the edges with Painters Chalk. This gives both height and "a level playing field". Nothing new here. Wargamers like Grant and Featherstone were using this method with balsa when I was a boy....It creates a terraced effect - not unlike what the Koreans keep Irishmen in to grow their rice .
The high mountains can also used to frame the game. To provide dead ground to mask movement. They can also limit the effectiveness of airstrikes. (A real break for the KPA when they lose air superiority).
Is anyone making accurate 10mm scale kimchi? Indispensable, wouldn't you say?
Quote from: d_Guy on 18 October 2016, 07:35:31 PM
Once you are finished with your DBA stuff maybe..... :)
And some 1914 Belgians apparently ;)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 19 October 2016, 01:49:00 AM
Is anyone making accurate 10mm scale kimchi? Indispensable, wouldn't you say?
Just came back from a holiday in Japan and I did spot cookery books about micro-cooking. The scale seemed to be about 1/6 or so. Then again, my korean colleagues were always proud of their nation being superior to all others in fiddly manual precision work. They said this is because their chopsticks (thin metal ones) require the most skill. So... just maybe the micro cooking scene in Korea has progressed to 10 mm scale.
Cheers,
Aksu
I HATE those metal Korean chopsticks! I sometimes take my own, far more user-friendly Japanese ones when we go to a Korean restaurant.
Japan's rather a good place for a holiday, isn't it?
Quote from: FierceKitty on 19 October 2016, 06:35:20 AM
I HATE those metal Korean chopsticks! I sometimes take my own, far more user-friendly Japanese ones when we go to a Korean restaurant.
Japan's rather a good place for a holiday, isn't it?
It's been five years since I last visited. I was surprised how many Chinese tourists there were in Tokyo high end shopping districts. But yes, it is a rather good place.
If one goes to Tokyo then the Shibuya branch of Tokyu Hands store is a place worth visiting without a doubt. They have everything tools wise one needs, and plenty more besides. They have fairly nice Japanese N scale buildings at reasonable prices in their models department worth checking out.
Cheers,
Aksu
Could also do RED Phoenix modern Korean war by Larry bond :D :D
Quote from: mart678 on 19 October 2016, 06:09:22 PM
Could also do RED Phoenix modern Korean war by Larry bond :D :D
Its a good read and great inspiration for a modern scenario. The Head Shed however have decided on 1950/53, so lets keep the thread focused and follow the tracer.
Pity the falling pound Stirling has impacted on potential Japanese N gauge kit. A lot would fit well with urban Korean.
Quote from: fsn on 15 October 2016, 09:00:14 AM
Or not ... being written by SLA Marshall.
I would also add "Triumph at Kapyong" by Dan Bjarnason. An account of the Canadian 2nd Battalion of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry having an equally bad time.
Princess Patricia's Cute Little Infants as they were affectionately known (though probably not voiced in their company).
The real learning curve for me is the South Korean Army. The CWC dismissed them as a 2/30 and "fragile". Primary source material tells a different story. The 1st ROK Infantry died in what amounted to suicide attacks on T34s with satchel charges and grenades. ( Paik, From Pusan to Panmunjob , p 8) and Blair tells forgotten story of the RoK 11th & 13th Regiments who held off two NK Divisions for two days before yomping in retreated in good order.
If you want a good piece of revision on TFS (Task Force Smith) - and MacArthur !! - try http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a381834.pdf Recommended, Major John Garrett pulls no punches. Took me two goes to get that link working!
Don't know much yet about ROK army in 1950-53 but they were considered badass righteous in Nam!
(And no, that is not from firsthand experience but from much anecdotal data.)
My understanding is that the US withheld heavy equipment from the South Koreans. At the start of the war they had 24 Chaffees (?).
Quote from: d_Guy on 20 October 2016, 07:51:32 PM
Don't know much yet about ROK army in 1950-53 but they were considered badass righteous in Nam!
Is that good?
Quote from: fsn on 20 October 2016, 07:52:44 PM
My understanding is that the US withheld heavy equipment from the South Koreans. At the start of the war they had 24 Chaffees (?).
Is that good?
Not even the humble M24. The RoK started the war with no tanks, heavy mortars, mines, medium artillery or RRs. Their only armour [sic] was 27 M8 Armoured Cars . In terms of anti tank guns they had only the 37mm. This is what Garrett's paper answered for me. With little or no kit the RoK defended with tenacity. My first CSM was a Korean Vet. (41 Independent RM Commando). He recalled the South Koreans in admiration that "they fought like bloody Gurkhas ". A description I have heard more than once from British Veteran sources. A lot of the RoK NCOs were Korean vets who had served in the Japanese Army.
The US were concerned that South Korea would act aggressively towards their northern neighbour, and provoke tensions even war, at a time when the real threat was seen as Western Europe. For that reason they deliberately restricted the equipment available to the South Korean Army.
From a personal gaming perspective, I am going to revise my CWC and give the RoK a +1 command bonus on assault and deduct one die when rolling for fall back.
Leon, please add RoK troops with satchel charges to the Phil's growing list.
Quote from: fsn on 20 October 2016, 07:52:44 PM
My understanding is that the US withheld heavy equipment from the South Koreans. At the start of the war they had 24 Chaffees (?).
Is that good?
Not if you are the OpFor!
Quote from: d_Guy link=topic=14968.msg2169 :-\79#msg216979 date=1477000873
Not if you are the OpFor!
Quite. :-\ :-\ The first US tanks rushed to Korean from Japan were Chaffees. They actually managed a few T-34 kills, but in general terms were no match for the superior Soviet tank.
Quote from: d_Guy on 20 October 2016, 10:01:13 PM
Not if you are the OpFor!
Or a civilian, especially women.
They took "to save the village, we had the burn the village" as a direct instruction, it seems.
No one tends to come out of war smelling of roses, but they seemed to relish it. There's plenty of sites and books detailing it their activities if you want to read up, but for the sake of my breakfast and sleep I'll not delve any deeper into it here.
Especially as it's a Korean War thread!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 21 October 2016, 10:37:43 AM
Or a civilian, especially women.
They took "to save the village, we had the burn the village" as a direct instruction, it seems.
No one tends to come out of war smelling of roses, but they seemed to relish it. There's plenty of sites and books detailing it their activities if you want to read up, but for the sake of my breakfast and sleep I'll not delve any deeper into it here.
Especially as it's a Korean War thread!
Nobody comes out of total war smelling of roses. Never mind civil war. They tend to be especially dirty and brutal. But as discussed in another thread, we can either get depressed over human depravity, or we can escape in to a chess inspired hobby that fascinates because of the tension between strict rules and the throw of the dice (+1).
in the the end its a game, not re-enactment or glorification of genocide.
Indeed.
I don't want to play "Atrocity Commander", but I do think we should be aware of the background "warts and all", and be willing to acknowledge it. I've not got any periods I'd not play, I think, but I do know many gamers who won't play various forces/eras/conflicts for various ethical reasons.
Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled "please can we have some more toys please" service!
I can't really add to this (but...)
I tend not to be interested in wars that occurred within my lifetime because they are too immediate and we are often surrounded by the hideous aftermath among family, friends and nation. As strange as it may seem the ACW is included in this category (for me at least).
Warfare on the fringe of the ECW was particularly brutal but at least has a near 400 year separation. As a wargaming period it offers the problems that interest me the most: an often improvised army, usually very asymmetric battles, and a very interesting (and often clever) use of combined arms. Additionally it is set in one of the great transition periods in the history and development of warfare.
Korea seems to offer many of the same problems as above and this is why I was considering it. Likely I'll stay in the seventeenth century. I barely have a handle on it without starting at zero with a new period.
Plus I need to be able to pay Pixie for an upcoming painting job :)
I can dig that, y'all.
Quote from: d_Guy on 21 October 2016, 01:27:59 PM
I tend not to be interested in wars that occurred within my lifetime because they are too immediate and we are often surrounded by the hideous aftermath among family, friends and nation. As strange as it may seem the ACW is included in this category (for me at least).
You must be a geen-yu-eyn Sutth'n gennelm'n, right? It'll never be over for real Dixies.
Quote from: d_Guy on 21 October 2016, 01:27:59 PM
I can't really add to this (but...)
I tend not to be interested in wars that occurred within my lifetime because they are too immediate and we are often surrounded by the hideous aftermath among family, friends and nation. As strange as it may seem the ACW is included in this category (for me at least).
Warfare on the fringe of the ECW was particularly brutal but at least has a near 400 year separation. As a wargaming period it offers the problems that interest me the most: an often improvised army, usually very asymmetric battles, and a very interesting (and often clever) use of combined arms. Additionally it is set in one of the great transition periods in the history and development of warfare.
Korea seems to offer many of the same problems as above and this is why I was considering it. Likely I'll stay in the seventeenth century. I barely have a handle on it without starting at zero with a new period. :)
I get that. I will never game Bosnia 1990s or N Ireland for much the same reasons. The legendry solo war gamer Lionel Tarr, would not game with British figures, so spent this games on the Eastern Front. (Red Flags and Iron Crosses). Most of my gaming is about fictional countries, which is why I really loved Peter Pig AK47 as a concept (not the rules).
When the long awaited Korean figures finally arrive, I may well run a few fictional scenarios- like pitching a Comet against a T34.
:)
Actually not a "Forget, Hell!" guy - rather the opposite. Much of my antipathy comes from where I grew up and now live - surrounded by battlefields, monuments, cemeteries, and other lingering remnants. Mainly it comes from my two loving Grandmothers (one Virginian, one Pennsylvanian) having a yelling match when I was about four precipitated by an older cousin putting a confederate kepi on my head.
It is strange the things we remember.
Thanks Sunray,
Posted over you again!
Congrats, BTW, you are now a full bird :)
No worries. Some years ago I was Scholar in Residence at a Tennessee university. The east of the state was pro Union and the west was Bedford Forrest country. The scars of the bellum run deep.
Quote from: d_Guy on 21 October 2016, 02:07:14 PM
:)
Actually not a "Forget, Hell!" guy - rather the opposite. Much of my antipathy comes from where I grew up and now live - surrounded by battlefields, monuments, cemeteries, and other lingering remnants. Mainly it comes from my two loving Grandmothers (one Virginian, one Pennsylvanian) having a yelling match when I was about four precipitated by an older cousin putting a confederate kepi on my head.
It is strange the things we remember.
Sounds like a scene with cinematic potential.
;D
Thurber would need to write the screenplay.
Quote from: d_Guy on 21 October 2016, 04:24:33 PM
;D
Thurber would need to write the screenplay.
Sounds like a lost work by Harper Lee...
Quote from: d_Guy on 21 October 2016, 02:11:35 PM
Congrats, BTW, you are now a full bird :)
Congrats from me too, James ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
And me
Quote from: Techno on 21 October 2016, 05:43:48 PM
Congrats from me too, James ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
Thanks gentlemen. The sad news in the Pendragen universe is that I lose my battalion and my 'Sunray' callsign, get a boring desk job, and just before the Korean hostilities. (Which are due to kick off as soon as the figures arrive).
:o I never thought of that! :)
I trying for a brigade by year's end ;)
Quote from: d_Guy on 21 October 2016, 09:27:38 PM
:o I never thought of that! :)
I trying for a brigade by year's end ;)
Ah, another convert for the Korean game. The Commonwealth Brigade perhaps ? It will be Techno's best work.
They'll be a bit rushed if I make them that quickly. :o ;)
Cheers - Phil
Phil - after your last post it had to be said :-
WORK FASTERRRRRRRRR
IanS
Right, all those wanting Korean war figures. Fall in, form an orderly queue. You want me to go first ? Ok, where's that list from Leon......
KO1 (KPA advancing with SMG) x 5
KO2 (KPA advancing with rifle) x 5
KO3 (KPA with LMG advancing) x 2
KO4 (KPA officers) x1
KO 5 (HMG teams x3) x2
KO 6 (Mortar team x3) x2
Right, now for South Koreans, the 41 Commandos and the Americans.....WTF ! Canada Goose ??? The Pendraken Site has been hacked again!!
Some people will go to great lengths to find Leon's Korean War list. Pendraken need that counter espionage range Leon.
Ah! But ...
(http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/25/106025-004-E8218A4D.jpg)
or
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c0/61/b3/c061b38c4217c565a6f029e33b8fa8b0.jpg)?
Quote from: fsn on 22 October 2016, 11:44:40 AM
Ah! But ...
(http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/25/106025-004-E8218A4D.jpg)
or
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c0/61/b3/c061b38c4217c565a6f029e33b8fa8b0.jpg)?
Ah yes, from memory the top figures are the winter range K26 onwards - the bottom figure is K01- summer dress.
Excellent!
Will there be a Chinese command group or separate officers and buglers?
There needs also to be running dogs.
Oh yes. North Koreans will have distinctive metal chop sticks, Chinese troops will have wooden ones. Techno will exaggerate the features of the sticks to make them recognisable in 1/150. Pendraken Korean range will be authentic right down to the chopsticks. its all on the Canada Goose ? website.
Fifteen United Nations countries sent combat troops to Korea: Australia, Belgium, Canada, Columbia, Ethiopia, France, Great Britain, Greece, Holland, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Philippines, South Africa, Thailand, and Turkey. Four countries sent medical assistance: India, Italy, Norway, and Sweden.
http://facts.randomhistory.com/korean-war-facts.html (http://facts.randomhistory.com/korean-war-facts.html)
Quote from: fsn on 23 October 2016, 02:32:11 PM
Fifteen United Nations countries sent combat troops to Korea: Australia, Belgium, Canada, Columbia, Ethiopia, France, Great Britain, Greece, Holland, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Philippines, South Africa, Thailand, and Turkey. Four countries sent medical assistance: India, Italy, Norway, and Sweden.
http://facts.randomhistory.com/korean-war-facts.html (http://facts.randomhistory.com/korean-war-facts.html)
Slims down a lot when you identify them by uniform type. American style predominated, as obvious in the Turks, Dutch, Greek, Columbian etc. The British style was reflected in Canadian and Aussie (apart from the iconic campaign hat). The Belgians wore their own pattern of the Denison (so WW2 Brit airborne in beret would work in a pinch if you carve the Mk4 .303 into an FN M49).
I think the South African support was limited to a squadron equipped with Mustang fighter bombers.
Indeed so. The operations of the USA, Commonwealth and the Turks are fairly well known.
Someone though, may get interested by the activities of the Columbia bttn, or the Ethopian Kangew soldiers.
Quote from: fsn on 23 October 2016, 07:51:09 PM
Indeed so. The operations of the USA, Commonwealth and the Turks are fairly well known.
Someone though, may get interested by the activities of the Columbia bttn, or the Ethopian Kangew soldiers.
I am all for interest and campaign discussion on these lesser known batts., Need to do a bit deeper research on troop rankings (although I suspect 3/30 would cover most. However having had to revise my perceptions of the RoK I am assuming nothing. The Columbians had a reputation for solid steady soldering only surpassed by the Turks!
I was just reassuring Techno that he won't have to sculpt 15 subtypes for the UN alone, that's over 30 when you add winter gear versions.
I'm saying nothing.
Cheers - Phil
No Ethiopian soldier surrendered during the Korean War.
There's a local rule, if ever I saw one.
Admittedly, eqpt was basically US, so no modelling problems.
Having said that, if we let Techno off making 15 variants in uniform, could he at least do a Warband and we could have 15 different US attired riflemen advancing? :d
No surrender by the Lions of Judah ! Not surprising. I worked in Addis in the last century and was impressed by the Ethiopian soldier.
Yes, all this makes a good rule revision essential.
Quote from: fsn on 24 October 2016, 06:54:26 AM
No Ethiopian soldier surrendered during the Korean War.
There's a local rule, if ever I saw one.
My first though is was that by circumstance or design? :-\
As in were they never in an operational situation that might have had a potential surrender or did they just fight to the bitter end?
Episodes of MASH and a few articles in popular military history books being the sum total of my knowledge of the Korean War! :-[
Cheers,
Meirion
They were very much involved
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagnew_Battalion
Although US kit will do for them!
Quote from: mad lemmey on 24 October 2016, 09:27:47 AM
They were very much involved
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagnew_Battalion
Although US kit will do for them!
Indeed, the 3rd Kagnew Batt "drove off a Chinese attack at bayonet point (20 May 53 at Tokan-ni Hill, quoted in Osprey). When I get time I will check US Intel reports on the action.
Now a question. Were Ram /Kangroo APCs deployed in Korea ? Or did the nature of the fighting render them redundant? If there was opportunity for APCs it would have been on the October 1952 offensive. I know the British Army had Kangaroos in this era, as there are images of the Glosters using them when deployed at Warminster as Demo Battalion after returning from their "glory" on Hill Point 235.
No mention of Kangaroos in the comic* I read.
The thing that's mentioned most is carriers of some description.
*And the Victor was usually quite up on these things.
Quote from: fsn on 24 October 2016, 11:12:15 AM
No mention of Kangaroos in the comic* I read.
The thing that's mentioned most is carriers of some description.
*And the Victor was usually quite up on these things.
Ahhh the blessed Victor. I was a Hotspur boy myself....but I remember Tough of the Track and the VC story on the cover. Good old patriotic gush fro DC Thompson.
But yes, the humble Carrier (with or without Bren Gun) seems to have a renaissance in Korea.
It was long gone before my time, but remembered with affection - unless it was raining.
Right, done marking for the day. Under grads write a lot of drivel. Korea - found a good image site, fayobserver.com Fascinated the extent that railways are used by both sides, and how target rich they make the war zone.
Obviously rails need level gradient, so where a railway runs - be it valley floor or plain - a wargame can follow. Del Prado locos are dirt cheap - even found a few Russian and Japanese locos ! Carriages are a different story. nbrasslocos.com make whitemetal Bogie Cars at £4.50 . Is there any images of Pendraken rolling stock online ? I need something not armoured that can be built into a AA wagon.
Lots of very interesting games possible in 1950/51 before the war goes static.
I was quite gripped by the Commando raids ashore to destroy railway lines running close to the sea.
Have you looked in ASDA? I got a whole load of trains from there - engine and 3/4 carrages for £5 (I think). There's a number of different sets on offer and I know less about trains than I do about which rejunevanting lotion the Dark Lord uses, so I don't really mind. You can pop the top off and use as a flatbed.
Quote from: fsn on 24 October 2016, 04:59:53 PM
I was quite gripped by the Commando raids ashore to destroy railway lines running close to the sea.
Yeah - need to dust off covert ops rules. 41 Independent Commando will be a very popular run of figures. I saw one of Carlos whatsit and I thought, what a good game to blow that line and fight a retreat to the LC.
Asda? I am open to any offers. Was this long ago? The supermarket choice of toys range is time bound. They are on the shelves, they sell, you never see the again.....
Few months ago when I got my last set.
I've just flicked through the Osprey "Armour of the Korean War". I forgot how gaudy some of the Shermans got for a while.
(http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-78-0-06190200-1394328267.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/99eb19a5982af9f38c44356b5b496d4b/tumblr_nw51dasTqV1r94kvzo1_500.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/93/fd/f7/93fdf74a1270529d1983fd1adf60116c.jpg)
When's the Pendraken painting competition start?
Ah but compared to an FV4017 they are only boy racers with go fast stripes
Quote from: fsn on 24 October 2016, 04:59:53 PM
I was quite gripped by the Commando raids ashore to destroy railway lines running close to the sea.
Have you looked in ASDA? I got a whole load of trains from there - engine and 3/4 carrages for £5 (I think). There's a number of different sets on offer and I know less about trains than I do about which rejunevanting lotion the Dark Lord uses, so I don't really mind. You can pop the top off and use as a flatbed.
The Asda train set is called Adventure Wheels. The engine has 'go fast wheels' but with n gauge boggies would pass for a small shunting loco. The rolling stock is not Graham Farish but with prices starting from as little as £3, a good paint job and you have a few Korea style trains - or indeed Third World.
Hello
I realise the pound has taken a pounding but you might have a look at the Tomix stuff from Japan, apart from rolling stock they also have buildings that would step right into Korean War scenarios (I've also often dealt with PlazaJapan and they are good dealers - maybe look at combining postage):-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Carriages/69814/m.html?_sop=15&_ssn=plazajapan&_from=R40&_nkw= (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Carriages/69814/m.html?_sop=15&_ssn=plazajapan&_from=R40&_nkw=)
(http://sunny-life.net/picture/tomix/2719_c.jpg)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomix-4006-Japanese-Farm-House-N-scale-/361463953639?hash=item5428ee38e7:g:54MAAOxyVLNSuj~k (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomix-4006-Japanese-Farm-House-N-scale-/361463953639?hash=item5428ee38e7:g:54MAAOxyVLNSuj~k)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/54MAAOxyVLNSuj~k/s-l500.jpg)
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Quote from: Sunray on 24 October 2016, 08:23:08 PM
Ah but compared to an FV4017 they are only boy racers with go fast stripes
Absolutely! I think a nicely refined, understated Centurion is far more dignified than these hot-rodders.
There are a few a painting types out there who may like to have a go?
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 24 October 2016, 09:54:18 PM
Hello
I realise the pound has taken a pounding but you might have a look at the Tomix stuff from Japan, apart from rolling stock they also have buildings that would step right into Korean War scenarios (I've also often dealt with PlazaJapan and they are good dealers - maybe look at combining postage):-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Carriages/69814/m.html?_sop=15&_ssn=plazajapan&_from=R40&_nkw= (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Carriages/69814/m.html?_sop=15&_ssn=plazajapan&_from=R40&_nkw=)
(http://sunny-life.net/picture/tomix/2719_c.jpg)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomix-4006-Japanese-Farm-House-N-scale-/361463953639?hash=item5428ee38e7:g:54MAAOxyVLNSuj~k (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomix-4006-Japanese-Farm-House-N-scale-/361463953639?hash=item5428ee38e7:g:54MAAOxyVLNSuj~k)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/54MAAOxyVLNSuj~k/s-l500.jpg)
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Many thanks Vic, really neat buildings - I will check out this link, Cheers James
Well fellow members, very shortly (he has already done it ! )we can predict that Leon will formally commission an opinion poll on this very Forum to discern what you want by way of post war Korean figures.
So, don't be shy. What basic figures do you need to game Korea ? What existing figures can be found in current Pendraken ranges ? How versatile are the figures you are requesting ?
Can I thank you all for your interest, knowledge and boundless enthusiasm. The primary research into this little known war has been a learning curve for me, and I look forward to seeing Techno's sculpts appear on the Forum, get moulded into figures, pick them, paint them and hope they get a +1 on the table.
This thread is officially closed.
Not from where I am either!
(https://accountingprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/fatlady.jpg)
Yep, all discussion can be continued in the new Korean War thread here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,15019.0.html
Oh my God.....I have created a monster....it has a life of its own.....Its name is Legion for they are many.
I think I can end this. It is what I do.
You lot! Yes you in the corner with bugle! Put it down! Nothing to see here! Ga'wann, Git!
No, shan't!
NA
Toot! 🎺
Begone, thou impetuous and behorned thread spirits!
👻
악마 나팔 소리! :d
Quote from: fsn on 22 October 2016, 11:44:40 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c0/61/b3/c061b38c4217c565a6f029e33b8fa8b0.jpg)?
CLASSIFIED - FOR TECHNO'S EYES ONLY
Message received.
Out !
Explanatory email in your tray !
Got it already, James ! ;)
Cheers - Phil