Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: Matt J on 09 October 2016, 10:55:08 PM

Title: none metallics metal
Post by: Matt J on 09 October 2016, 10:55:08 PM
Hi all

Seen this done but I'm not 100% convinced, looks good on the odd weapon.
However on a whim got hold of some Perry mounted men at arms (nice models by the way) and thought I d give this a try on these.
Anyone tried this method, any pit falls, worth the effort?

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: FierceKitty on 10 October 2016, 12:25:15 AM
?
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Ithoriel on 10 October 2016, 01:03:02 AM
FK, it's a technique that seems to have gained ground among competition painters whereby metallic effects are achieved using non-metallic paints. So, for example, rather than using gunmetal highlighted silver for steel armour you'd use greys and white to achieve the same effect.

Unless it's done perfectly, with exactly the right shading and highlighting it looks weird to my eyes. Even when done perfectly it often works better from some angles than others IMHO.

I have every confidence you could do it Matt, just not sure why you'd bother.

Frankly it's in my "solutions looking for a problem" basket.

I'm not a competition painter so I'm going to stick to metallics thanks. :)

If you go ahead .... pics or it didn't happen :D
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: FierceKitty on 10 October 2016, 01:18:52 AM
Ta. But it sounds like one for the latter-day Titians and Chardins among us, not the Jackson Pollocks like me.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Orcs on 10 October 2016, 06:48:05 AM
I have some Orcs and Goblins (what else?) done like this, by a painter friend who is way out of my league.  He is Constable  to my 3 year old toddle.  They look very nice, and fit in with my metallic metal figures.

They obviously take far more time than using metallic. Time I could use better to paint other figures.  If you painting them for gaming why bother.

I would go with Ithoriel with the "solutions looking for a problem" basket.

Unless your just looking for a challenge that is
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Leman on 10 October 2016, 07:10:29 AM
Never even going to think about this, let alone try it. After all I'm not Jackson Pollock, more like Jackedoff Bollock.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Nirnman on 10 October 2016, 08:45:31 AM
I have to admit that for WW2 infantry I use a mix of Vallejo basalt grey and German grey for guns rather than gunmetal and it IMHO looks fine.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Matt J on 10 October 2016, 11:55:54 AM
I use metallics on smaller scales and I paint mostly 10mm but now and again I like to paint larger 28mm models. Lately it has been Bloodbowl teams but I have the urge to paint some historical stuff, which I've never done before, so I chose to do WotR using the Perrys range and slowly build up an army over time.
There is a lot of armour on these models and I've always found metallic paints look a bit tinny, even with good shading, over large areas.

QuoteUnless it's done perfectly, with exactly the right shading and highlighting it looks weird to my eyes. Even when done perfectly it often works better from some angles than others IMHO

I have the same reservations but I suppose the only way to find out is give it a go.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Subedai on 10 October 2016, 01:59:01 PM
There are quite a few tutorials on the web for those who want to try it. It's okay for competition figures or the clever bu**ers but for me...not at all.

MickS
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: petercooman on 10 October 2016, 06:52:14 PM
I must say i don't really like the look of NMM

I find that you are better off with metallic paint, and if it shines too much, just apply a good layer of matt varnish.

Life is too short  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: FierceKitty on 11 October 2016, 01:46:03 AM
Words of wisdom. If you want an army without metals, well, there's Mexico for that.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Luddite on 11 October 2016, 08:07:47 AM
Done well it can look good:

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/WHEquad/Tut06.jpg)

(https://2plusinvulnerable.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/the-shieldmaiden-5.jpg?w=500)

But the time and effort required means its not really viable as a technique to get an army on the table.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Techno on 11 October 2016, 10:54:49 AM
That is rather splendid, but as already been said, looks more suitable for painting comps, rather than the table ?

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Matt J on 11 October 2016, 11:14:37 AM
The top one is the kind've idea I'm looking at but I guess the general consensus is 'not worth the effort' so I'll definitely have to have a go  :D 
I'll post some pics (good or bad).
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: FierceKitty on 11 October 2016, 11:59:12 AM
Good luck.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Ithoriel on 11 October 2016, 02:29:06 PM
For me the bottom shield looks like a shield with a picture painted on the front, not a shield polished to mirror finish with a reflection.

The top one looks like it's been painted gunmetal and highlighted silver ... in which case the painter might as well have used gunmetal and silver IMHO.

For me making a thing more complicated isn't an improvement but, hey ho, whatever floats your boat ...
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Leman on 11 October 2016, 02:35:40 PM
Must be a popular method in the US then, where the dictum seems to be 'why use one word when two or three will do.' My latest beef is 'Luke Cage' where they insist on calling one of the characters madame council woman, where in this country she would simply be referred to as councillor.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Ithoriel on 11 October 2016, 02:42:19 PM
... and just to prove how fickle I am, I do think the technique can work on figures like this where the fact that the paint job doesn't quite look like metal is a bonus because the material being modelled is supposed to be adamantium, plasteel, ceramite or whatever fictional material the fluff specifies.

(http://www.madfly-art.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/IMG_4154h.jpg)
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Leman on 11 October 2016, 06:45:33 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: petercooman on 11 October 2016, 09:37:02 PM
Quote from: Luddite on 11 October 2016, 08:07:47 AM
Done well it can look good:

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/WHEquad/Tut06.jpg)


I feel inclined to show the finished work bacause that  model loks great!
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/WHEquad/Tut07.jpg)
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: d_Guy on 11 October 2016, 10:59:32 PM
Is it possible to do non-metallic painting with metallics? Prehapes micro dots of bronze, copper, and gold to do the madder-red coat of English foot in the later Eighteenth century?  :-\
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 October 2016, 01:00:10 AM
Quote from: Leman on 11 October 2016, 02:35:40 PM
Must be a popular method in the US then, where the dictum seems to be 'why use one word when two or three will do.' My latest beef is 'Luke Cage' where they insist on calling one of the characters madame council woman, where in this country she would simply be referred to as councillor.

Elevator instead of lift was itself a compromise; the original plan was to call it a vertical personnel distribution device.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Ithoriel on 12 October 2016, 01:09:11 AM
I'm a great believer in clarity over brevity, Guy, like calling a spade a Single Person Activated Dirt Excavator. :)
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 12 October 2016, 06:26:21 AM
Sorry but a spade is a "fu**ing  shovel"

IanS
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: d_Guy on 12 October 2016, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 12 October 2016, 06:26:21 AM
a "fu**ing  shovel"

IanS

Interesting application.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 October 2016, 01:20:18 PM
Suggestion of necrophilia, you mean?
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Orcs on 12 October 2016, 04:09:22 PM
A spade and a shovel are two distinct tools.  One id uses for digging and cutting the other is used  for moving material.

They have similar but distinct differences in construction and use.

Unlike an Orc and a Goblin. One is a member of an imaginary race of human-like creatures, characterized as, warlike, and malevolent. they other is what you hope to get in the bedroom  :d...... (think about it)

Spade
a tool with a sharp-edged, typically rectangular, metal blade and a long handle, used for digging or cutting earth, sand, turf, etc

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtVBHlW-I22o75CHtp1fJlni8PtxM8_UGJlywlR4XeawynLSDJ)

Shovel
a tool resembling a spade with a broad blade and typically upturned sides, used for moving coal, earth, snow, or other material.
(http://s7g3.scene7.com/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/79599_P&$prodImageMedium$)

PS. Both of the above pictures are in proper metallics
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Techno on 12 October 2016, 07:33:51 PM
My rabbit shovel doesn't look like those, at all, Mark.

(Best 'digging' implement I've got.....By far !)

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Orcs on 12 October 2016, 10:16:41 PM
A Rabbit shovel is more like a trowel with a broomstick handle
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Techno on 13 October 2016, 05:52:28 AM
True, but I find it so much easier to use than a bigger, conventional spade, Mark.
Takes longer.....But it feels like far less effort is involved.

Cheers - Phil

Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: d_Guy on 28 October 2016, 12:43:49 PM
This seems to belong here:

(http://www.9news.com/img/resize/content.9news.com/photo/2016/10/26/shiny%20legs_1477533657238_6644863_ver1.0.jpg?preset=534-401)

You may have seen this recently since it is, apparently, all the rage on twitter (I don't twit). White paint creates a shiny illusion.
It is said that some folks never see the shine or that once you realize it is white paint you can never see the shine again.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 28 October 2016, 01:41:53 PM
I see both...
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Matt J on 28 October 2016, 02:05:52 PM
What's the white stuff, or shan't we go there.....

Back on thread. Had a go at NMM and the results were pretty underwhelming, mainly down to the fact I'm lacking the right type of grey at the moment. I will have another go but initial thoughts are it won't look better than using metallics for mucho more effort.
However I do think it'll work well in a fantasy setting as mentioned by Ithoriel. I'm going to try on some chaos warrior bloodbowl players with a fetching blue metallic armour.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Leman on 28 October 2016, 03:47:45 PM
 :-&
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Matt J on 19 December 2017, 08:42:46 PM
Been a while (hey hum) but finally had a proper go at nmm. I like it...

(https://i.imgur.com/CjP4qg4.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/uqhDb9G.jpg?1)
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: d_Guy on 19 December 2017, 09:38:12 PM
Not too bad, not too bad at all!  =D>
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: fred. on 19 December 2017, 10:10:52 PM
That has come out well!
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: paulr on 20 December 2017, 03:20:27 AM
Quote from: Matt J on 28 October 2016, 02:05:52 PM
... with a fetching blue metallic armour.
:-/

Impressive effect but I hate to think how much effort is involved  X_X
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: lowlylowlycook on 20 December 2017, 04:31:13 AM
Looks great.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: sunjester on 20 December 2017, 08:10:34 AM
Looks fantastic, but probably way too much effort for me.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 20 December 2017, 09:06:20 AM
Very cool
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: ErHo on 20 December 2017, 03:32:57 PM
Well done!!
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Steve J on 20 December 2017, 04:25:34 PM
Wonderful painting! As others have said, way too much effort for me these days, talk less of the skills required.
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Matt J on 20 December 2017, 06:31:29 PM
I'll be honest it is time consuming and I had quite a few  ~X( moments because you have to think about painting in a different way and I'm so totally ocd. But on comparison it is definitely better than using metallics.
I wouldn't use on 10mm but the few 28mms fig I paint will, in the most part, be done using this technique. I have the start of a Perry plastic WotR army which will look great in this technique (in about 20 years time...... 8->)
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Techno on 20 December 2017, 09:20:30 PM
I AM impressed Matt !!  :-bd :-bd

That is rather spiffy !!

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: none metallics metal
Post by: Womble67 on 21 December 2017, 09:14:18 AM
It does look rather good but like some of the others have said it's way too much effort for me

Take care

Andy