Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Rules! => Blitzkrieg Commander IV => BKC-III => Topic started by: Leon on 26 July 2016, 07:44:55 PM

Title: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Leon on 26 July 2016, 07:44:55 PM
Just a quick one, do people prefer a single column layout or double columns?  The original BKC was single, but a lot of the more recent rulesets have gone with more (Battlegroup: 3, Saga: 2, Hail Caesar: 2)

I prefer double myself, but thought I'd check whether it was an issue for anyone?
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: petercooman on 26 July 2016, 07:47:39 PM
I preferred the single one actually, especially when there are tables/examples involved.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Ithoriel on 26 July 2016, 07:50:05 PM
Yeah, single for me too for preference.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Subedai on 26 July 2016, 07:59:26 PM
I oncer read that people are turned off psychologically when confronted by pages of text which is why double columns were invented, purely to make it easier to read. Personally, I have no preference.

MickS
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: fsn on 26 July 2016, 08:00:44 PM
Single. Double only for pamphlets or handouts.







Thought this was going to be a line vs column thread.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: d_Guy on 26 July 2016, 08:33:16 PM
I prefer double column.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Ithoriel on 26 July 2016, 08:39:25 PM
Quote from: Subedai on 26 July 2016, 07:59:26 PM
I oncer read that people are turned off psychologically when confronted by pages of text which is why double columns were invented, purely to make it easier to read. Personally, I have no preference.

MickS

Seriously? Never heard that before.

Can't imagine that double column is easier for anyone to read. Cuts my reading speed by 25-30%.

One lives and learns I guess.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: jimduncanuk on 26 July 2016, 08:53:28 PM
Quote from: Subedai on 26 July 2016, 07:59:26 PM

I oncer read that people are turned off psychologically when confronted by pages of text which is why double columns were invented, purely to make it easier to read. Personally, I have no preference.


In the early days of computing, before it was called IT there was an allied discipline called Desk Top Publishing.

I used to teach DTP using a number of programs but the most popular one was called Pagemaker. One of its selling points was the ability to turn a string of text into a variety of formats, single column, double column, triple column (I kid you not), single spaced, space and a half, double spaced, justified, justified and filled. It lead to a number of incredibly bad documents being produced.

I would be happy with single column, justified and filled.


Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Fenton on 26 July 2016, 09:01:50 PM
Would having it as a double column make the production of the rules any cheaper by having less pages?
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Steve J on 26 July 2016, 09:06:13 PM
Single for me.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Ithoriel on 26 July 2016, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 26 July 2016, 09:01:50 PM
Would having it as a double column make the production of the rules any cheaper by having less pages?

Only if the font size were smaller, surely.

On which topic, the bigger the better for my ageing eyes!
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Genom on 26 July 2016, 09:59:21 PM
I'm perfectly happy with either, BKC 2 was better in single because most of the diagrams, pics and tables were all big as well. But I can understand double could be better depending on how you're doing your diagrams etc.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Leon on 27 July 2016, 01:14:57 AM
I'll finish off the pics/diagrams/tables and then decide what looks better then.  A lot of the images and larger diagrams can still cover both columns, that's not a problem.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: sunjester on 27 July 2016, 06:06:37 AM
I hate double columns in rule >:(s, I'm effectively reading a technical manual, not a consumer magazine. But I reluctantly put up with it if the rules are really worth it.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Sandinista on 27 July 2016, 06:08:34 AM
I'm a double column fan  :)

Cheers
Ian
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: FierceKitty on 27 July 2016, 06:22:55 AM
I initially thought you meant marching formations.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Orcs on 27 July 2016, 07:29:20 AM
Single columns for me please.  Makes it much easier to read.

Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: slugbalancer on 27 July 2016, 02:42:55 PM
Single for me.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Orcs on 28 July 2016, 10:35:36 AM
Quote from: jimduncanuk on 26 July 2016, 08:53:28 PM
In the early days of computing, before it was called IT there was an allied discipline called Desk Top Publishing.

I used to teach DTP using a number of programs but the most popular one was called Pagemaker. One of its selling points was the ability to turn a string of text into a variety of formats, single column, double column, triple column (I kid you not), single spaced, space and a half, double spaced, justified, justified and filled. It lead to a number of incredibly bad documents being produced.

I would be happy with single column, justified and filled.


You will be telling us it was on a 386SX next
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Ithoriel on 28 July 2016, 11:16:42 AM
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 28 July 2016, 10:35:36 AM
You will be telling us it was on a 386SX next

THREE eight six! Ooh! look at you with your fancy-smancy cutting edge processors!

286 processor was good enough for my first PC. Came with Windows 3.0 pre-installed.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Wulf on 28 July 2016, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 28 July 2016, 11:16:42 AM
THREE eight six! Ooh! look at you with your fancy-smancy cutting edge processors!

286 processor was good enough for my first PC. Came with Windows 3.0 pre-installed.
Windows?

Oh, another newbie...  =)

I prefer double so long as the columns are wide enough - depends on the font.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 28 July 2016, 12:25:17 PM
Double saves some space. You do need to put table heading at the top of each page as well. Makes the tables easier to read. 

IanS
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Ithoriel on 28 July 2016, 12:58:59 PM
Quote from: Wulf on 28 July 2016, 12:23:06 PM
Windows?

Oh, another newbie...  =)

I prefer double so long as the columns are wide enough - depends on the font.

"... first PC ..."

First computer I used was an IBM 360 :-)

Data prep sheets, punch cards, acoustic couplers .... ahh, the good old days! :D
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: fsn on 28 July 2016, 02:08:04 PM
DEC PDP 11/44 then a VAX

First desktop I used had no hard drive, but two 5" floppy drives. You swapped disks like mad when doing simple things like spell checking.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: jimduncanuk on 28 July 2016, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 28 July 2016, 12:58:59 PM

"... first PC ..."

First computer I used was an IBM 360 :-)

Data prep sheets, punch cards, acoustic couplers .... ahh, the good old days! :D


Can beat you both there:

First computer I worked on was an English Electric Leo Marconi KDF9, 16k of core memory, no operating system, four 1" magnetic tape drives, line printer, 80 column card reader, two paper tape readers, paper tape punch, a graph plotter and a electro-mechanical typewriter for a console. Circa 1968.

The system filled a pretty big air conditioned room and the air conditioning plant next door was even bigger.

Staff communications inside the machine room was largely by hand signals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_KDF9

Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: jimduncanuk on 28 July 2016, 04:02:37 PM
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 28 July 2016, 10:35:36 AM

You will be telling us it was on a 386SX next


Nope it wasn't. I predate these machines by at least 10 years.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: OldenBUA on 28 July 2016, 06:30:57 PM
I think I would prefer single column.

Quote from: ianrs54 on 28 July 2016, 12:25:17 PM
You do need to put table heading at the top of each page as well. Makes the tables easier to read. 

This is a good idea. The tables with all the unit data would benefit from having the table header repeated on each page.

Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Leon on 28 July 2016, 07:43:34 PM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 28 July 2016, 12:25:17 PM
Double saves some space. You do need to put table heading at the top of each page as well. Makes the tables easier to read. 

Quote from: OldenBUA on 28 July 2016, 06:30:57 PM
This is a good idea. The tables with all the unit data would benefit from having the table header repeated on each page.

Just to be clear, what do you mean exactly by table header?  Just the title for that particular table, or something else?
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Itinerant Hobbyist on 29 July 2016, 03:54:26 AM
Single is winning, but I vote double.

Doesn't matter I'm buying them either way.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 29 July 2016, 05:57:16 AM
At the monment the columns in the "army lists" only have the header - ie what that column is - at the start of the list. They can cover 2-3 pages in some armies. BKC isn't too bad, but CWC is. This needs to be repeated at the head of each page at least.

IanS
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: fsn on 29 July 2016, 07:14:52 AM
Quote from: Itinerant Hobbyist on 29 July 2016, 03:54:26 AM
Single is winning, but I vote double.

Doesn't matter I'm buying them either way.
Is that your first post Mr Hobbyist? If so, welcome to the Forum.

Might I congratulate you on your intelligent decision to join this collection of the errudite, the talented, the knowledgeable and me.

It's a forum that repays constant attention. There's always someone who will post "a picture of my first efforts" that will have you snapping yoiur brushes in frustration. Then there are those who will pique your interest by unearthing some long forgotten campaign, and the good souls who post battle reports with supporting ilustrations that get the gaming juices flowing. Then there's me.

There's a friendly atmosphere, with what could be described as sone good natured joshing, and there's always someone who will support and encourage and offer positive criticism. Then there's me.

Welcome. Enjoy.

Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: OldenBUA on 29 July 2016, 07:59:27 AM
Quote from: Leon on 28 July 2016, 07:43:34 PM
Just to be clear, what do you mean exactly by table header?  Just the title for that particular table, or something else?

What Ian said. The header info for the unit data 'Army lists', so Troops, Arm, Move, AT, AP etc should be on top of each page. Really helpful when a list covers more than one page.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Leon on 29 July 2016, 05:20:44 PM
Ah right, I'm with you now.  That'll definitely get done, I hate it myself when you've got keep flicking back and forth to check which column you need.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: nikharwood on 31 July 2016, 09:39:55 PM
Quote from: Leon on 29 July 2016, 05:20:44 PM
Ah right, I'm with you now.  That'll definitely get done, I hate it myself when you've got keep flicking back and forth to check which column you need.

Yep, coolio 8)
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: barbarian on 01 August 2016, 06:27:37 PM
Don't you have a graphic designer helping you ? (for money, I mean ?)
Wouldn't it be more efficient to use his pro experience ?

Did I mention I am a graphic designer ?  :D
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Leon on 01 August 2016, 07:19:32 PM
Quote from: barbarian on 01 August 2016, 06:27:37 PM
Don't you have a graphic designer helping you ? (for money, I mean ?)
Wouldn't it be more efficient to use his pro experience ?

Did I mention I am a graphic designer ?  :D

Graphic designers are expensive...! 

I usually do all the graphic design myself, normally just flyers and magazine adverts, so this is a bit of a bigger project!  I normally work with Photoshop but I've just started using InDesign and I'm slowly getting used to how it works.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: barbarian on 01 August 2016, 08:38:52 PM
Be sure to check your marging and some other technical stuff before sending it to print.

Heck, I can have a look at it for free if you wish.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: jimduncanuk on 01 August 2016, 09:49:33 PM
Quote from: Leon on 01 August 2016, 07:19:32 PM
Graphic designers are expensive...! 

I usually do all the graphic design myself, normally just flyers and magazine adverts, so this is a bit of a bigger project!  I normally work with Photoshop but I've just started using InDesign and I'm slowly getting used to how it works.

Remember to include some white space.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: nikharwood on 01 August 2016, 10:52:59 PM
Quote from: barbarian on 01 August 2016, 08:38:52 PM

Heck, I can have a look at it for free if you wish.

He's superbly civilised, that barbarian ;)
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Leon on 01 August 2016, 11:03:14 PM
Quote from: barbarian on 01 August 2016, 08:38:52 PM
Heck, I can have a look at it for free if you wish.

Thanks for the offer, I'll have a look once it's complete.  I'm fine with the margins for print and stuff, no worries there.  Warband came out fine, so I hope we'll be OK!

Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Dave Fielder on 30 October 2016, 10:53:29 PM
Attack columns for me ;-)
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: FierceKitty on 31 October 2016, 04:29:44 AM
Quote from: nikharwood on 01 August 2016, 10:52:59 PM
He's superbly civilised, that barbarian ;) ...

...OR his tribe hasn't moved on to the idea of cash. He may be hoping for special discounts in the near future. ;) There is, after all, an unspoken understanding that I'll be getting 50% off my first ten packs of Mexicans.
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 31 October 2016, 07:06:37 AM
Something weird here, got this thread as a new post, last one shows post as 01/08/16 ????

And no Kitty, you wont get that discount, should be paying at premium rates for those....

IanS
Title: Re: Single or Double columns?
Post by: FierceKitty on 31 October 2016, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 31 October 2016, 07:06:37 AM
Something weird here, got this thread as a new post, last one shows post as 01/08/16 ????

And no Kitty, you won't get that discount, should be paying at premium rates for those....

IanS

If you'd spent less time cocking a snook at the Cambrians, your voice might have been heeded in this debate.