Has anybody else had a go at this? Takes about 10 minutes online. I think it's at:
www.greatwargamingsurvey.com
EDIT: Website link fixed.
I haven't bothered this time round.
I seem to remember from the last time that some of the questions seem to be a bit stupid and also that great swathes of the hobby were ignored.
Hi Jim
We attempt to lower the stupidity-quotient every edition ;), but that's much easier if people tell us exactly what's wrong. Happy to get feedback via PM or at j.oorthuys@karwansaraypublishers.com
Yep I filled it in.
Yes, took it (or filled it out if you prefer) yesterday. Some of the questions allow you to make expanded comments.
Quote from: Praefectusclassis on 22 July 2016, 05:51:59 PM
We attempt to lower the stupidity-quotient every edition ;), but that's much easier if people tell us exactly what's wrong. Happy to get feedback via PM or at j.oorthuys@karwansaraypublishers.com
I'll see if I can work up some enthusiasm to give it a go.
I have to finish a gallows and a trebuchet first.
Tried but it said website cannot be found.
MickS
It's because the domain is www.greatwargamingsurvey.com
Done.
Done
Did it yesterday.
Done
done !
Done, the only particularly odd answer choice was grouping naval with mid-size skirmish (based on number of models)
Argh, I've moved up an age bracket :'(
Cheers
Ian
Quote from: Praefectusclassis on 22 July 2016, 05:51:59 PM
We attempt to lower the stupidity-quotient every edition ;), but that's much easier if people tell us exactly what's wrong. Happy to get feedback via PM or at j.oorthuys@karwansaraypublishers.com
OK, have filled in the questionnaire to the best of my ability.
I added comments in section 2 about being a 'twilight years wargamer' and that I tailor things in the presumption that my collections will go to someone else soon rather than later.
In section 5 I commented that I played both Solo games and Small Group games although the questionnaire only allowed me to be one or the other.
Section 6 covered how much do I spend on the hobby. I took the top level because I included travel costs including car fuel, air fare, hotel costs as well as figures, paint and rules.
Section 7 covered magazines and will I tick those that I buy. There was no zero option other than 'other' and a comment. I don't buy magazines any more as they are very hard to move on after reading, take up tons of space. I really don't need them as I get all my information from other sources.
How did the rest of you get on?
Jim
Quote from: Sandinista on 22 July 2016, 09:22:08 PM
Argh, I've moved up an age bracket :'(
Cheers
Ian
Similar to me, I'm right at the end of the penultimate age group.
Done.
MickS
Done :)
Done!
Done.
Could've done with a few more "none of the above" options.
Example? (I keep track for next year)
Quote from: Sandinista on 22 July 2016, 09:22:08 PM
Argh, I've moved up an age bracket :'(
Cheers
Ian
I discovered I've got nowhere left to go.
I moved up an age bracket too, went from 21-30 to the 31-40 bracket last weekend .....
Still lower than a lot of you guys i reckon ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Quote from: Praefectusclassis on 23 July 2016, 05:51:00 AM
Example? (I keep track for next year)
Example - how big is your gaming group - which one?
a) Random evening bouts with a guy who lives locally - 2
b) & c) Tuesday night and Friday night groups (two different groups) - 4-7
d) Sunday afternoon group - 2-12
e)The once every 3 - 6 month Saturday megagame - 12-30
f) I play a solo game pretty much every week - 1
Apart from me (obviously) there's a one person overlap between groups b and c, otherwise it's different people. THe questionnaire insisted on an answer before moving on. Would have been better as an "Other" I reckon with all that info in the text box.
Quote from: petercooman on 23 July 2016, 07:23:48 AM
I moved up an age bracket too, went from 21-30 to the 31-40 bracket last weekend .....
Still lower than a lot of you guys i reckon ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
A little respect, whippersnapper!
Quote from: FierceKitty on 23 July 2016, 10:25:15 AM
A little respect, whippersnapper!
Youz knows thi young unz has no more rspct!
:d
Did
Thanks Ithoriel!
And a quick early result: when will you turn to historical wargaming? http://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/pw/wss/blog/the-answer-is-42/
I must be an exception then, I was interested in historic gaming at 12, dabbled in Sc Fi (encouraged by my son) at 42, have never wargamed fantasy
It's a majority - minority switch. WW2 is always the number 3 era/setting, even in the younger age groups.
Quote from: paulr on 05 August 2016, 06:32:43 AM
...I...dabbled in Sc Fi (encouraged by my son) at 42, have never wargamed fantasy.
Some day somebody must explain a meaningful difference to me between fantasy and sci-fi gaming. Damned if I can see any beside the different spelling.
Wizards vs spaceships? ;)
So Obiwan differs from Gandalf in that...?
He flies around in a spaceship and Gandalf rides a horse?
I think you're reinforcing my point. ;D
I like a lot of Sci Fi films. I like a lot of fantasy films. Still can't see the point of gaming them.
I agree the difference is at least somewhat artificial. I suppose it's a difference of degree in emphasis. For Sci-Fi, it's 'future tech' possibly combined with space travel, for fantasy it's magic and anthropomorphic / -ised races on a single planet, usually medieval-esque in some way. Sort of?
I don't see the difference between fantasy, Sf and historical except that with historical there's usually some more consistent backgorund information.
What's the difference between Gandalf casting a firebolt spell, a German stormtrooper helfting a man-portable flame thrower and a Dark Chaper Death-Hawk with a blazer gauntlet? How do you differentiate between an elm with a mighty greenwood bow and a doughty English Yeoman archer at Crecy? Between an Apache attack helicopter and a light grav assault craft? The model.
I don't play fantasy. But take away the magic and an elves vs man is a bit similar to a medieval scrap. A struggle for possession of a star-destroyer is very similar to street fighting in Stalingrad.
Ah! But what about the dwarves and the Klingons! +1 strength -1 attractiveness.
When I game ancient Greek warfare, I sometimes add in a rule that certain heroes can call upon certain gods. Have I transgressed into fantasy? If someone plays 1946 with E25 tanks, is that SF?
I think sometimes we can get a little purist about our hobby, and find reasons to look ascance at other facets of it, for no good reason.
As one of out more illustrious members says "give me another pint for the love of the Dark Lord's calloused thumbs! I'm starting to see reality."
Quote from: Leman on 05 August 2016, 07:01:06 AM
I like a lot of Sci Fi films. I like a lot of fantasy films. Still can't see the point of gaming them.
Fun.
None of what we do is realistic.
Some of our models mimic things in the Real World (tm) a little more closely than others.
The difference between sci-fi and fantasy. Often seems to me it's aspiration vs nostalgia.
I'd possibly take some sci-fi more seriously if its afficionadi took science more seriously. Ever heard a real physicist's reaction to a description of a wargames rail gun?
I wish the minutes to show, however, that I wasn't sneering at the non-realistic part of the hobby, merely questioning a difference that I think exists only in nomenclature.
Quote from: fsn on 05 August 2016, 07:28:47 AM
How do you differentiate between an elm with a mighty greenwood bow and a doughty English Yeoman archer at Crecy?
Oh! Oh! That ones easy!
One's a 50' tall tree...
... and the other's a typo. :-[
That should, of course, have been an elf with a mighty greenwood bow.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 05 August 2016, 07:47:03 AM
I'd possibly take some sci-fi more seriously if its afficionadi took science more seriously. Ever heard a real physicist's reaction to a description of a wargames rail gun?
I wish the minutes to show, however, that I wasn't sneering at the non-realistic part of the hobby, merely questioning a difference that I think exists only in nomenclature.
Sci-fi isn't about science, it's about things in the real world that the author would like to promote or change dealt with by way of futuristic analogies to make the thing more palatable to a general audience.
Whereas, IMHO, fantasy is about things in the real world that the author thinks were so much better in the past. That mythical time when people were nicer, when you could tell the "baddies" by the way they looked, when virtue was rewarded and wickedness punished.
Forum threads, by way of contrast, are about sweeping generalisations made on very little evidence :D
If "Game of Thrones" is about a better time, we're REALLY in trouble (apart from the naked lassies).
Quote from: FierceKitty on 05 August 2016, 10:33:00 AM
If "Game of Thrones" is about a better time, we're REALLY in trouble (apart from the naked lassies).
The men are handsome, the women are beautiful, heroes are noble (and stupid), baddies get their come uppance, being smart trumps being strong and women get their kit off ... surely it's every nerds dream!
Good SF, they say, is about people. Good fantasy, I would offer, is also about people.
We love Firefly because Mal is a preening pillock, but cunning and resourceful. We love the Lord of the Rings because Gandalf is wise and Frodo is determined and Sam is loyal.
Quote from: fsn on 05 August 2016, 03:20:18 PM
Good SF, they say, is about people. Good fantasy, I would offer, is also about people.
Agree! I thing everything is about telling stories about people - even if they look like a tree, a bug, or an orc.
Seems like Sci-fi sets the stage with reality extrapolated to the future and fantasy with an alternate reality entirely,
But as long as it is an engaging human story, it don't* matter a wit about the stage.
Of course, I could easily be wrong.
* I like talking like Flashman, etc
Quote from: fsn on 05 August 2016, 07:28:47 AM
I don't see the difference between fantasy, Sf and historical except that with historical there's usually some more consistent backgorund information.
What's the difference between Gandalf casting a firebolt spell, a German stormtrooper helfting a man-portable flame thrower and a Dark Chaper Death-Hawk with a blazer gauntlet? How do you differentiate between an elm with a mighty greenwood bow and a doughty English Yeoman archer at Crecy? Between an Apache attack helicopter and a light grav assault craft? The model.
I don't play fantasy. But take away the magic and an elves vs man is a bit similar to a medieval scrap. A struggle for possession of a star-destroyer is very similar to street fighting in Stalingrad.
Ah! But what about the dwarves and the Klingons! +1 strength -1 attractiveness.
When I game ancient Greek warfare, I sometimes add in a rule that certain heroes can call upon certain gods. Have I transgressed into fantasy? If someone plays 1946 with E25 tanks, is that SF?
I think sometimes we can get a little purist about our hobby, and find reasons to look ascance at other facets of it, for no good reason.
As one of out more illustrious members says "give me another pint for the love of the Dark Lord's calloused thumbs! I'm starting to see reality."
Clearly Alexander mounted his Dragon and blasted the Persians with his mk4 Blasorgian cannon. Jeez, I give up. Goodnight scifi/fantasy.
Mais non, mon Brave!
Alexander should stay atop Bucephalus. My point is that fantasy and sf are equally valid genres of the hobby, and that the boundary between historical and sf/fantasy is thin. If you game the "Soviet Invasion of West Germany in 1984" then that is not history. It is not historical. So what is it? We're currently enjoying the battle reports of Hakuna-Matata. My atlas admits to no such places, so we're indulging in a ??? I plan a Bavarian 1814 division and a British 1814 division. If they confront each other on the table I have, in a way, tossed historical accuracy out the window.
So I'm all for historical gaming, but realise that there is an element of playing with history, however accurately it is presented.
Arguably, all wargaming is fantasy. My idea of Fantasy is of a world that involves magic spells and creatures and races that do not all exist in our present world. Sci-Fi is also a form of fantasy but substitutes magic with a level of technology that does not currently exist in our present day world and creatures and races that exist on other worlds. If I was to attempt to define Historical, then I would say it involves the human race only and civilisations, societies and technology that currently exist or are known to have existed in mankind's past. :-B
I say that if it's fun it's a wargame.
That's good enough for me :D
Was that really blue touch paper :o I thought it was just some scrap paper that needed burning :-[
For the record I did not intend to disparage any form of wargaming
While I agree with the spirit of Peter's comment
Quote from: petercooman on 05 August 2016, 07:57:47 PM
I say that if it's fun it's a wargame.
and strongly believe that all forms of wargaming can and should be fun :)
I can think of a few things that are fun that are not wargaming ;)
Quote from: paulr on 05 August 2016, 09:49:06 PM
I can think of a few things that are fun that are not wargaming ;)
You mean boardgaming don't you?
Or modelling?
:-B :-B :-B :-B :-B
Quote from: paulr on 05 August 2016, 09:49:06 PM
I can think of a few things that are fun that are not wargaming ;)
Curling?
Quote from: petercooman on 06 August 2016, 06:23:02 PM
He said fun,not sleep inducing :P
Depends on whom you are curling up with ;)
To Kitty: I couldn't figure out how to say the above without ending on a preposition or, in one case, letting my participle dangle! :)
Quote from: d_Guy on 06 August 2016, 07:03:38 PM
Depends on whom you are curling up with ;)
To Kitty: I couldn't figure out how to say the above without ending on a preposition or, in one case, letting my participle dangle! :)
Depends with whom you are curling up?
Quote from: Ithoriel on 06 August 2016, 07:06:09 PM
Depends with whom you are curling up?
True, but I couldn't decide if "up" was a preposition or a particle.
Quote from: d_Guy on 06 August 2016, 08:27:54 PM
True, but I couldn't decide if "up" was a preposition or a particle.
I thought "curl up" was an intransitive verb but, as FK will attest, I know nothing about English grammar :D
Quote from: d_Guy on 06 August 2016, 07:03:38 PM
Depends on whom you are curling up with ;)
To Kitty: I couldn't figure out how to say the above without ending on a preposition or, in one case, letting my participle dangle! :)
Only pedantic teachers who are looking for mindless rules to give students as a meretricious short cut always object to ending on a preposition. With phrasal verbs in particular the alternative is often unthinkably silly ("something up with which I will not put").
Thanks for the pass , ya'll - English is, after all, my second language :D
Incidently, "pendantic" and "dangling" seem to go together somehow. :-\
Quote from: d_Guy on 07 August 2016, 02:26:08 AM
Incidently, "pendantic" and "dangling" seem to go together somehow. :-\
:D ;D
You should give 'Pendants Corner' a listen to: Sean Keavney on BBC 6 Music.
Quote from: petercooman on 23 July 2016, 07:23:48 AM
I moved up an age bracket too, went from 21-30 to the 31-40 bracket last weekend .....
Still lower than a lot of you guys i reckon ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
You can go off someone quite quickly you know. >:(
Quote from: d_Guy on 06 August 2016, 07:03:38 PM
Depends on whom you are curling up with ;)
How about curling up with one of these? Afterwards you at least could talk about something interesting :d :d
Bettanny Hues
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c3/b0/d0/c3b0d06c15a8415e4bced77aacf940e3.jpg)
Suzzanah Lipscombe
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/01/article-2334387-1A191834000005DC-102_306x599.jpg)
Kate Williams
(http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/multimedia/dynamic/01170/STL23_38_1_1170652k.jpg)
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 07 August 2016, 09:58:26 AM
You can go off someone quite quickly you know. >:(
Hear, Hear.
Why do we allow kiddies on this sensible forum !.....PAH !! >:(
Cheers - Phil
'ow did you get in Phil ?
'Cos I'm old venerable. =O =O =O =O =O
Cheers - Phil
First version is more accurate :d
It may be a futile attempt to get this thread back on track, but here's another intermediate update: http://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/pw/wss/blog/wargaming-worries/
For me, the competition is not just Real Life (tm) and the competing pulls on finance and attention required nor the problems of finding suitable opponents or, indeed, opponents at all but the competing forms of gaming the same subject. If you're interested in WWW2, why spend time collecting figures, vehicles, paint and terrain when you can get Heroes of Normandie* and have full colour forces and detailed terrain ready in half an hour? Or you can get Company of Heroes* and have forces that actually move and which provides opponents from across the planet.
I love the tabletop game and fully expect it to outlast me but I do wonder if we are going the way of men preceding motor cars with red flags and the makers of horse brasses.
*Other games are available :)
That reason for decreasing interest was mentioned, but only once or twice.
To me tabletop wargaming is about one's interior life which makes it difficult to find a suitable vocabulary or set of metaphors that can be used to casually explain it to someone else. It is much easier to explain if the competitive nature is emphasized. Everyone grasps the concept of winning and losing and the lengths taken to win. Everything is competitive (and can even be made into a team sport), jig saw puzzles for example:
For any pursuit to satisfy and remain satisfying, in my mind at least, it must address the interior life. Essentially I think a tabletop wargame is, at its best, a piece of performance art. Something that even the uninitiated can look at and see the depth and be engaged. It doesn't even have to be stunningly beautiful or amazingly detailed - it simple has to provide more questions then answers.
Once everything falls into rituals and formulas the fun goes away and people leave.
My view anyway (and hardly unique).
Quote from: ianrs54 on 07 August 2016, 12:39:27 PM
'ow did you get in Phil ?
Took a wrong turn when heading to casualty i think...