Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => Ancients to Renaissance (3000BC - 1680) => Topic started by: paulr on 28 June 2016, 07:23:52 AM

Title: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: paulr on 28 June 2016, 07:23:52 AM
I'm considering building 6 DBA 3.0 armies covering the Early Crusades :-\

The DBA yahoo group has suggested the following armies:

3/66 FATAMID EGYPTIAN 696-1171AD
3/74b RUM 1063-1276AD (Seljuq Turkish)
4/1 KOMNENAN BYZANTINE  1071-1142AD
4/2 CILICIAN ARMENIAN 1071-1375AD
4/6 SYRIAN 1092-1286AD
4/7 CRUSADER 1096-1228AD

The plan is to use the armies for both DBA and BBDBA in various combinations covering a wide range of troop types.

I'm interested in feed back from the forum on the list of armies and what Pendraken figures they would suggest for each army.

The alternative appears to involve the number 15 rather than 10 :o
Essex 15mm DBA army packs
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 28 June 2016, 07:33:23 AM
Several of the gentleman have successful built similar armies, Nik, Forbes, Ronan et al.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 28 June 2016, 08:12:23 AM
Start off by getting Ian Heath's book so you know what you're looking for. Then trawl the Pendraken, Irregular Miniatures, Magister Militum, Kallistra, Copplestone, and TB sites. It's all there.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: SV52 on 28 June 2016, 09:01:07 AM
No help but plenty of encouragement, I did the same thing with six dark age armies in 1/72 / 20mm.  After a while they all start to look the same, soldier on!
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: nikharwood on 28 June 2016, 09:01:37 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 June 2016, 07:33:23 AM
Several of the gentleman have successful built similar armies, Nik, Forbes, Ronan et al.

Here's mine (for WMA)

Crusaders:
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4706.0.html

Salah Ah-Din:
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3086.0.html

I'll try and dig out the figure-order list...
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: fred. on 28 June 2016, 11:18:40 AM
Pendraken certainly does the core figures for this era.

For the Saracens
Dark Ages Arabs http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Dark-Ages-c10/Arab-sc33/
And slightly strangely the Colonial Sudan range can help too http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Colonial-c16/SudanEgypt-1882-85-sc98/


For the crusaders:
Dark Ages Normans http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Dark-Ages-c10/Norman-sc34/
European Mid-Medival http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Medieval-c11/European-Mid-Medieval-sc38/
And to a lesser extent
Late Medieval http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Medieval-c11/European-Late-Medieval-sc37/

And as FK says there are plenty of options from other manufacturers that scale with Pendraken.

As to precisely what you need for the DBA lists, I can't help with that.


Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 28 June 2016, 11:43:41 AM
You realise that your chosen era doesn't let you use Saladin, Richard, Baibars, St Louis, the Mongols, or as far as I know the Assassins or the Knights Templar and Hospitaller?
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Leman on 28 June 2016, 12:08:14 PM
But despite that I see that 6 armies have been recommended for the 1099 Crusade - always my favourite crusading period.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Ithoriel on 28 June 2016, 12:31:55 PM
1st Crusade always seemed more interesting than the 3rd to me.

I have fond memories of a First Crusade campaign played using SPI's Crusades board game but with battles fought using WRG rules. Back in the days when no-one batted an eyelid at Byzantine armies composed of Norman figures and Muslim armies mainly composed of Ottoman and Mahdist figures!
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Leman on 28 June 2016, 02:48:37 PM
I have fond memories of Duncan's book, 'A Knight in Armour.' Riproaring  read and the "hero" is a total dimwit.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: paulr on 28 June 2016, 06:40:43 PM
Thanks all for the advice and support :)

FK
I will definitely be consulting Ian Heath's book
I need to do some reading on the history before I finalise which of the Crusades. I'm not focused on any particular individuals and I suspect that the painting will be less challenging for the earlier crusades.

Nik
The figure-order list would be very useful

Fred
Thanks for some useful suggestions
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: nikharwood on 29 June 2016, 07:03:11 PM
Quote from: paulr on 28 June 2016, 06:40:43 PM
Nik
The figure-order list would be very useful

Found it...so Warmaster Medieval lists & Pendraken codes:

Kingdom of Jerusalem (995):
Lord (125)
2 Nobles (160)
2 Crusader Knights (220)
2 Sergeants (140)
2 Crossbowmen (110)
4 Infantry (240)

2 x EMM1 Mtd Men at Arms
2 x EMM2 Mtd Sergeants
1 x EMM3 Foot command
4 x EMM4 Spearmen
1 x EMM5 Billmen
1 x EMM7 Crossbowmen
1 x ELM10 Crossbowmen
1 x ELM38 Mtd Generals


Army of Salah Ah-Din (1010):
General (Salah Ah-Din) (150)
2 Leaders (160)
2 Faris (230)
2 Turkish Horse Archers (120)
2 Archers (80)
6 Spearmen (270)

1 x AB1 Command
6 x AB2 Spearmen
2 x AB3 Archers
2 x AB7 Horse Archers
1 x AB8 Medium Cavalry
1 x AB9 Heavy Cavalry

(oh and 4 x ELM 41 Siege Tower & 1 x PS15 Arab Tents)
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: paulr on 29 June 2016, 07:47:07 PM
Thanks Nik, very handy to see the figures on mass and to know codes :)

I'm tempted by the First Crusade at the moment for the less uniform look but am thinking about the Third due to the better known personalities  :-\
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: nikharwood on 29 June 2016, 08:00:44 PM
You're welcome :)
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 29 June 2016, 09:57:05 PM
Go first, you can have a divinely inspired goose as a general!
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: paulr on 30 June 2016, 04:26:40 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 29 June 2016, 09:57:05 PM
Go first, you can have a divinely inspired goose as a general!

:o :-/ :-\

And apparently a goat as we'll  ;)
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 30 June 2016, 06:20:11 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 30 June 2016, 06:22:02 AM
You found this source then Paul? ;)
http://themedievalworld.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/goose-who-led-crusade-well-sort-of.html
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 30 June 2016, 06:54:22 AM
Economy measure: pretend to believe that the children's crusades really happened, and raise them in 6mm!
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 30 June 2016, 11:31:08 AM
The first picture: IM extra-heavy horse, MM militia. Picture 2, Maronite archers and Hospitaller crossbowmen by Pendraken, Quaraghulams by MM.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 30 June 2016, 11:36:44 AM
Tents: Leven 6mm (also the little "kiosk" types). Fatima's coffee shop; Pendraken civilians, table, apples, and waggon cover as top of the tent; rest scratchbuilt. Trees part of "Dinozowie set II".
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 30 June 2016, 11:41:34 AM
Tafur or armed pilgrims - MM and Pendraken; German spearmen - Copplestone; Crusaders - IM.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 30 June 2016, 11:42:27 AM
Ignore this one.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 30 June 2016, 12:01:01 PM
No, shan't!
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 30 June 2016, 12:03:48 PM
You silly, and your mummy dresses you funny!
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Leman on 30 June 2016, 12:34:00 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 30 June 2016, 12:41:38 PM
At least I own me own clothes, not me big sisters hand-me-downs!
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 30 June 2016, 12:43:21 PM
Nudist, remember? One size fits all.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 30 June 2016, 12:44:10 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Leman on 30 June 2016, 02:46:21 PM
I am definitely not going to Thailand any time soon.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: paulr on 30 June 2016, 07:58:03 PM
Thanks for the pics FK :)

but not the reminder X_X
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: paulr on 09 July 2016, 04:33:58 AM
I have decided to go ahead with this project :)

Unfortunately using figures from another manufacturer :o :-[

I will be using figures from 13 different ranges while Pendraken only has 3-4 applicable ranges as yet

I will be using the one true scale :)

Thanks again for your assistance FK
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: FierceKitty on 09 July 2016, 05:09:20 AM
You are a model of courtesy! I'll be delighted if I can help in any other way. Hep! Deus vult!
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: DanJ on 04 August 2016, 04:10:29 PM
Have you considered other rules to DBA?

I can recommend SAGA Crescent and Cross for a really good game with Crusaders and Saracens using completely different tactical doctrines because of the very different battle boards.

I use a combination of Pendraken and Old Glory figures.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/IMG_1919a.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/danandsan/media/IMG_1919a.jpg.html)


(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/IMG_0024a.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/danandsan/media/IMG_0024a.jpg.html)

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/IMG_3893a.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/danandsan/media/IMG_3893a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Techno on 04 August 2016, 04:14:56 PM
Thank goodness for that.

For a moment I thought you meant those were 6mm figures.

Those are belting !  :-bd

Cheers - Phil

Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: Steve J on 04 August 2016, 07:53:42 PM
I too thought 6mm initially! But what a cracking looking army/warband you've painted 8)
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: paulr on 04 August 2016, 09:05:11 PM
Very impressive DanJ, where did you get the flags for the Saracens? I'm also interested in any colour references you may have

My group already play DBMM so are familiar with the DBx rule sets so it will make slotting in occasional games easier

I have started a new thread to follow the progress of this project here, http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,14686.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,14686.0.html)
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: DanJ on 05 August 2016, 03:33:37 PM
Hi Paul,

All the flags are from Little Bigmen Studio.  I use 15mm flags and 25mm Lance pennons from the Norman, Crusader Islamic and Byzantine ranges.

It doesn't seem to matter that the flags are for 15mm figures, they look fine on the table which is the main thing, and as we know flags come in all shapes and sizes.

As for painting guides I make up most of them, based on inspiration from as many sources as I can find, Ospreys are a good starting point for most combatants.  Apart from the military orders I genraly try and keep away from uniforms for this period, although I do tend to do batches of figures in the general colour scheme so a couple of stands of knights, one or two of men at arms and a few bases of infantry will be painted in the same type of colours and patterns to indicate feudal alegence.

The film 'Kingdom of Heaven' is a visual delight and a great source of ideas, just ignore the history.
Title: Re: 6 Army DBA Crusades project
Post by: paulr on 05 August 2016, 09:52:18 PM
Thanks Dan