Who is your favorite 19th century military commander (of land forces)? Exclude the ACW, and keep it in the 1816-1914 period.
For me I have to say it is General Chanzy in the Republican Phase of the FPW. His ability to keep armies going, even after they were defeated is truly admirable.
KTravlos
Miguel Miramon or General Frossard
Lakshmibai of Jhansi.
Moltke
Crown Prince Fredrich Wilhelm
Saigō Takamori
Faidherbe - did as well as he could with relatively poor material whilst suffering from poor health.
Nah, my one's neck and shoulder ahead of any of yours, gentlemen.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 24 May 2016, 04:33:50 PM
Nah, my one's neck and shoulder ahead of any of yours, gentlemen.
Shouldn't a commander actually command something? Seems to me she was pretty much a figurehead rather than commander of her forces, reacting to circumstance and ultimately getting herself and numbers of her compatriots killed by consistently reading the shifts of power wrongly.
I was voting for my favourite, not the most talented. Just as I'd have voted for Cicciolina a few decades ago if I'd been Italian.
I didn't even realise it was a woman. Whoever, never heard of. Probably not European, so certainly didn't count in the C19th. And I'm too bloody old and too bloody cussy to give a stuff about being politically correct to Johnny foreigner women.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 24 May 2016, 05:05:44 PM
I was voting for my favourite, not the most talented. Just as I'd have voted for Cicciolina a few decades ago if I'd been Italian.
If I may derail this thread for 4:37, FK, you will enjoy this!
https://youtu.be/LNWu7Ejm_TM
:)
And since we are now including women: Juliette Dodu
Shaka.
(I love his 1978 version of "I'm every woman".)
Oh! And Sir Garnet Wolseley.
(Loved it when he called Tony Blair's father in law a "scouse git".)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdBE4hOtEQ - Cicciolina victorious. NSFW, though pretty tame by her standards.
Well, even though he was the main actor of France defeat in 1870, I have to agree with Mollinary on this one. Moltke was the smartest military mind of the period in my opinion, at least in Europe. For their panache and courage, I am very attached to Canrobert and Mac-Mahon as well.
Ferdinand Poschacher von Poschach
Pancho villa :)
Chief Joseph.
Lieutenant Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill.
W.T. Sherman - no messing about when it came to hurting the enemy.
Isn't Willy Sherman ACW ?
ianS
Sir Percy McHogg (alter ego I use in colonial Victorian games).
Oops! forgot you couldn't have ACW. Never mind, still a ruthless, focused bugger.
Kitchener, if only for the moustache.
And the wonky eye.
Brigadier-General Sir Harry Paget Flashman VC KCB KCIE (5th May 1822-1915)
My sensible answer is Collingwood. Much more of a safe pair of hands than that prat Nelson.
Quote from: iain1704 on 03 June 2016, 06:39:37 PM
Brigadier-General Sir Harry Paget Flashman VC KCB KCIE (5th May 1822-1915)
Excellent choice! :)
(Sorry we will now never learn of all of his ACW exploits)
Henri Dufour - won the Swiss Civil War with no fuss and kept both his own and his opponents' casualties to a very bare minimum.
Nobody's mentioned poor old Gablenz yet. A not bad general in an army populated by some very meagre generals.
I did but it was in a parallel thread on TMP
Gablenz is good but I give the point to Chanzy simply because of the worse material he had to deal with.
I'm kicking myself.... I forgot Raglan! One retirement project I have is to have a serious look at some of his decision making in the Crimea. My guess is that it is high time for some revisionism there.
Quote from: profjohn on 21 June 2016, 11:14:38 PM
I'm kicking myself.... I forgot Raglan! One retirement project I have is to have a serious look at some of his decision making in the Crimea. My guess is that it is high time for some revisionism there.
Reclassify from "inept" to "idiotic"?
But ladies do like prettily embroidered handkerchiefs - oh dear, too much Hollywood I fear.
Ouch that's harsh. But in the late stages of the Alma with the Russians in full retreat Raglan urged Arnaud to press on after them down the now undefended road to Sebastopol. Had the combined allied forces conducted that pursuit then Sebastopol would have fallen and the war - as far as the declared local objective was concerned - would have been won after one battle. Raglan the national hero and remembered as THE great Victorian general!
Every history of that war I've read makes it clear that he was the greatest enemy the British part of that army had. Only Tango over at TMP would treat this as an ongoing debate.
All I can say about Raglan is that he was somewhat armless.
Don't look for the coat, I'm not wearing one. :D
IanS
I like that 'armless' and he already had a trick up his sleeve. Anyway - he never lost a battle where he was c-in-c on the field. He wasn't responsible for the catastrophic logistics and it was convenient that he died so that those who had failed could blame him. He's also the only general I've heard of who watched his own army advance from behind enemy lines. That if nothing else recommends him.