I have a battle group of Pendraken Japanese. I have also been taking an interest in the Fight for the Philippines 1941-42. In terms of the actions, the 'battle of the points" and the "battle of the pockets" reveal that it was not a Japanese walkover and USAFFE put us a spirited 105 day resistance.
Would there be any demand for a small range of early war Americans ? (British style helmet, the Montana hat, tropical uniform, Springfield rifle, BAR, and Browning HMG).
The Stuart tank and the 37mm ATG are already on the shelf and I am sure some period expert on the forum can brief us on what vehicles the USAFF would have had. Too early for the jeep?
The wide range in troop quality means this scenario will game well with BKC rules.
They weren't IN the early war...
(interesting period though)
Ask anyone in Hollywood; it doesn't count until there are Americans involved.
How do the WWI American stack up?
No BAR but a Chauchat.
Quote... ...
Depends on when you think WW2 started, and who by. Normally it is considered the Germans on 1st Sept. '39, but conflict had been waging in Asia before that date and would continue until the end of the hostilities in '45.
If with the Second Sino-Japanese War, in 1937, then you could, probably, argue for the inclusion of US 'advisers' to the Chinese in the Early Period of WW2. Obviously this isn't what this topic is addressing, however.
I would like some if only for some 'what if?' conflicts.
Quote from: Wulf on 28 April 2016, 10:16:43 AM
They weren't IN the early war...
Its a relative question. I often chucked it to undergraduates in a tutorial. The 1941 campaigns
were early war actions for the Americans. Any figures sculpted will be known as early war Americans.
Now if you compare the British, Polish and French war experiences with say , the Chinese, you can rightly say that none of those three nations were involved in the "Early war".
The Second World War started at different dates for different nations. Now sod the pedantic history - whose interested in the figures.
Actually Roy makes a good point. Advisors from 1937. I am sure Grumpy would love to see some Chinese troops sometime?
:-\
I think I have the solution. How about calling it the "sorry we're late" range?
No.
Try what if Thailand had fought the Japanese the Thia's also fought the Vichy French also Russians for your Japanese to fight
Hello
Not wanting to get caught in a historical and semantic quagmire I'd like to endorse the request for these Americans. Apart from China and the Philippines there are lots of small actions and/or what ifs.
Quote from: Sunray on 28 April 2016, 01:57:55 PM
Actually Roy makes a good point. Advisors from 1937. I am sure Grumpy would love to see some Chinese troops sometime?
Chinese would be OK too but I'm quite happy with my ww1 British and Austrian proxies. Infantry in lemon squeezers or helmeted landing parties would be handier though.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
I've actually a hankering to collect the IJA, but haven't considered who I'd also collect as their opponents. So 1942 US forces could be of interest to me.
Would they be useful for the Allied invasion of Iceland? Only one combat action but that punch was a good solid whack!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 28 April 2016, 08:45:23 PM
Would they be useful for the Allied invasion of Iceland? Only one combat action but that punch was a good solid whack!
My favourite story is the British Consul Shepherd, who arrived at the quay and found a large crowd of Icelanders. He sounds a right Sergeant Wilson Public School type as he turned to the Icelandic police and said "I say, you wouldn't mind getting these crowds back a bit, so we can [invade] get the troops ashore?"
There was a threat of a German airlift. Now if you run the scenario of a German airborne operation you could have a Crete of the North Atlantic .....(Operation Ikarus)
Hello
Surely there's lots of scope for historical and what ifs with the Banana Wars:-
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/U.S._Marines_holding_Sandino%27s_Flag_-_Nicaragua_1932.jpg/732px-U.S._Marines_holding_Sandino%27s_Flag_-_Nicaragua_1932.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/USS_Denver_Nicaragua_Landing_Force_1912.jpg)
And serendipitously the rules Yanks on the Yangtze have been having a revival of interest:-
http://www.blazeaway.com.au/Rules.html (http://www.blazeaway.com.au/Rules.html)
They are skirmish but you modify them for base style games.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
We'd have lasted about half an hour against the Japanese if we'd tried it.
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 28 April 2016, 06:38:22 PM
Not wanting to get caught in a historical and semantic quagmire I'd like to endorse the request for these Americans. Apart from China and the Philippines there are lots of small actions and/or what ifs.
...
Seconded
Quote from: fsn on 28 April 2016, 11:21:16 AM
How do the WWI American stack up?
No BAR but a Chauchat.
They need M1 Garand rifles as well as BAR, certainly for the Philipines
You know, I could get interested. (There's a surprise.)
Springfield rather than Garand, water cooled Browning MG.
Yup. Sounds like it could be a nice counterpoint to the late war marines.
Water cooled Browning lasted until Korea. And last night a club member declared you couldn'a tell the difference between a Springfield and an SMLE in 15mm. Any truth in the rumor that Phil designed the Battlefront WWI stuff ?
IanS
Nope !
Not me, Guv. (Unless someone's sold them an old range I made years ago......If you're talking 15mm.....Definitely not me.)
Cheers - Phil
My grandpa was on Iceland with the RAF.
Said he never wanted to see it again!
Quote from: fsn on 29 April 2016, 06:59:30 AM
You know, I could get interested. (There's a surprise.)
Springfield rather than Garand, water cooled Browning MG.
Yup. Sounds like it could be a nice counterpoint to the late war marines.
It was a little reading of the campaign that got my attention. The Yanks and local troops did very well to hold out for so long.
There is also Wake Island - I remember a wargames club (was it Grimsby?) that had a very attractive 25mm demo game that they took around the shows about 20 years ago. The islands were condensed to table top, and looked shrunk- but it would work so well in 10mm. Does any other veteran wargamer remember seeing the Wake island game ?
Quote from: Westmarcher on 28 April 2016, 02:13:00 PM
:-\
I think I have the solution. How about calling it the "sorry we're late" range?
NO! lets get things correct they should be the "Sorry we are late AGAIN range" :D :D
Not the "Is this a private war or can anyone join in" range then JafO? :)
It was Raventhorpe Minatures who did the 20mm range called "US Marines Early War Wake Island or Battan".
17 figures including a sailor - they are still listed and illustrated on the Raventhorpe website.
Yes- Wake Island would be a hell of a game in 10mm.
Hello
Eureka make them in 15mm as well. Listed as 1941 marines which neatly avoids the quagmire. Very nice figures too.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 29 April 2016, 08:19:28 PM
Hello
Eureka make them in 15mm as well. Listed as 1941 marines which neatly avoids the quagmire. Very nice figures too.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Hmmmm. :-\ Very nice sculpts. As you say - 1941 avoids any pedantic quagmire.
I see the U S Marines are sculpted with the Boys ATR and the Savage version of the .30-06 Lewis.
Yes - if Pendraken produced these in 10mm, I would buy a battle group.
Quote from: Sunray on 29 April 2016, 10:55:25 AM
It was a little reading of the campaign that got my attention. The Yanks and local troops did very well to hold out for so long.
There is also Wake Island - I remember a wargames club (was it Grimsby?) that had a very attractive 25mm demo game that they took around the shows about 20 years ago. The islands were condensed to table top, and looked shrunk- but it would work so well in 10mm. Does any other veteran wargamer remember seeing the Wake island game ?
I'm a member of the Grimsby Wargamess Society and will ask for you on Monday
Take care
Andy
I remember he game (it was stunning!) but not who put it on.
Quote from: Sunray on 29 April 2016, 07:21:45 PM
It was Raventhorpe Minatures who did the 20mm range called "US Marines Early War Wake Island or Battan".
17 figures including a sailor - they are still listed and illustrated on the Raventhorpe website.
Yes- Wake Island would be a hell of a game in 10mm.
East Riding Miniatures do a set of them in the old Platoon 20 range too.
Quote from: Womble67 on 29 April 2016, 11:27:41 PM
I'm a member of the Grimsby Wargamess Society and will ask for you on Monday
Take care
Andy
Thanks Andy. I have just unearthed issue 35 of
Wargames Illustrated (August 1990) and it confirms that the Wake Island demo game was indeed a Grimsby Wargames Club effort masterminded by Colin Rumford (most wargamers will know him from his
Rapid Fire rules). What a ambassador for our hobby the Grimsby crew were back then.
Colin actually got Tony Chadburne of Raventhorpe Minatures to cast up some Japanese landing craft especially for the game !
Now that's service for you.
A few cabin style huts, 1/144 hellcats, a table with the archipelago of flat islands (dead easy terrain) , the Japanese,
All we need are a few 1941 US Marines .
So at least 26 years ago since I saw the game. I'd assumed it was about half that! I feel old now ... OK, I feel even older :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 30 April 2016, 09:14:03 AM
So at least 26 years ago since I saw the game. I'd assumed it was about half that! I feel old now ... OK, I feel even older :)
Yes, it is scary how the years fly, yet the memories of things 20+ years ago remain sharp- apart from names etc. Grimsby and Deal were the two clubs whose demo game I always sought out at a show when I lived in England.
I still have a few 1/200 Wild Geese Miniatures (Vietnam and SCW) I bought at Armageddon 89 (was that the year it changed to Colours?)
They are quite tall for 1/200 and a few make it into current 10mm games.
I will see if I can get an image of the Wake Island game up on the forum- worth 1,000 words in the campaign for 1941 Marines.