Hi Guys,
My orders from Pendraken arrived and I have to say......oh, they are small.
Of course that is the attraction to this scale but I now realise how easy some have you have been making this look! The WW1 Russians are based and ready to recieve some attention but I worry that they will be a jot more difficult than anticipated. 3 figures on a 30mm square base seemed to look like real open order to me, no bunching up with automatic weapons trained on you.
Any hints or tips would be appreciated, I have read a few how to's but they all seem to refer to more colourful periods.
Cheers
It all depends on your painting style and method in other scales, you may try to adapt your usual method but it doesn't always work. I -like some others- nearly always use a black undercoat and blocked on bright colours -usually a shade lighter than in real life so they stand out a bit and always use light rather than dark coloured bases as this will also enhance your figures. In relation to their larger cousins, 10mm are a hell of a sight easier and quicker to paint, but that only means you will get more of them quicker!
Always happy to help. With my first batches of Russians I used Vallejo Greenstone with a wash of Army Painter soft tone ink. Like most figures start at the inside and work your way out. I usually start with faces - base coat of brown, e.g. Vallejo Beige Brown, then high points with Vallejo Sunny Tone Flesh. Some painters swear by white undercoat and some by black. It's a matter of taste, but what a lot don't do, which I think is essential, is to PRIME, which is different from undercoating. I use Vallejo White Primer, then undercoat using ordinary white or black paint. Use good quality brushes as well, such as Windsor and Newton series seven.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20RCW/IMG_0876_zpse75ea9f1.jpg)
Not my greatest photo but you get the idea.
Unlike Leman, I never prime figures and I start with the main colours and add things like hands and faces as almost the last things painted. I use a black undercoat, paint things lighter than they will end up and use ink washes to get most of the shading done, picking up highlights again afterwards.
I trash brushes regularly so use cheaper ones rather than the likes of Windsor & Newton.
Main thing I would say is try a few variations and see what works for you. Black, White and Grey are all used as undercoats by people and good results are possible with all of them, for example.
Lighter shades than you'd use on bigger figures and the effectiveness of lighter bases I would agree with though.
After many years of using black and then grey undercoat I have now moved onto brown.lI use the AP brown then block in colours quick wash in AP strong tone ink then a very quick highlight in the original block colour and I'm done
I find using brown really speeds up the painting horses and leather items
Hey thanks for this!
The lighter base and base coat is a great tip, the picture helped as well. I usually use a black base so I will stick with that and crack on with your tips in mind. I will see how these first batch turn out and then maybe order some (I have this big list already) more.
Can I ask what do you use for buildings? I read previously that 6mm was used and now this seems to make sense! I do hope they turn out OK because I purchased "Triumph of the Will" which looks like it would be perfect for this scale.
Thanks again, this forum is really helpful.
I will fess up now to being the resident grouch who cannot abide 6mm terrain with 10mm figures. I do not like to have my troops fighting for possession of wendy houses :)
Reduced footprint 10mm is my preferred option for those who can imagine that 24 figures are a battalion of 600 men but can't get their heads around the idea that therefore a house represents a hamlet.
Personally i use 10mm scale terrain with 10mm figures.
As ever, whatever you're happy with is fine, it's your game after all.
Quote from: CarlLeyland on 17 April 2016, 09:34:48 PM
Thanks again, this forum is really helpful.
I would say that as a group the forum members are well read, well informed, well intentioned and well crazy :)
Haha love it Mr Grouch. Yes I probably agree that when I see a 15mm house being used with 20mm figures I feel sick....I know what you mean. Any good resin 10mm scenery that I may have missed?
Timecast
Never looked for buildings as I always scratch built them for 28mm.....looking at Timecast now thanks
Pendraken do a range of buildings, though it's being revamped so several items are out of stock.
Hovels (http://www.hovelsltd.co.uk/) and Total Battle Miniatures (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Total-Battle-Miniatures-c33/ or http://www.totalbattleminiatures.com/index.html) have some good 10mm items too.
Try these:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/Figurephotos2011/FPWphotos10mm/IMG_1412_zpsflud3th0.jpg)
10mm buildings.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/Figurephotos2011/FPWphotos10mm/IMG_0274.jpg)
6mm buildings
Very useful comparison piccy's , 'Bob'.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Ithoriel on 17 April 2016, 09:44:55 PM
Personally i use 10mm scale terrain with 10mm figures.
As ever, whatever you're happy with is fine, it's your game after all.
Totally agree with those comments
Take care
Andy
Another personal vote for 'in scale' buildings here. I just can't get my head around using smaller buildings, it just doesn't look right.
Like you I make all my own although I did succumb and but some 20th Century type 6mm resin ruins on fleabay the other week.
AND to launch the reaction for the twenty-seventh time, there are those of us who like a town to contain several buildings without covering six times as much ground to scale as the reality, and who therefore opt for 6mm.
Shouldn't there be a sub-board for this shouting match? It arises every fortnight.
Without actually disagreeing with you, I know the topic may well come up periodically, but people who have not long joined probably don't know that. It doesn't bother me how many times it gets repeated, if it gets people talking then it's fine by me. I usually find that it doesn't go on for too long anyway, usually because someone will make a comment that sends the whole thread whizzing off at a tangent.
True enough. Funny you should mention tangents; I remember trigonometry was the branch of maths that convinced me I'd never master the art.
I hope it is never seen as a shouting match. Some of us like 10mm buildings with 10mm figures some prefer 6mm, entirely personal preference but I wouldn't want those with a preference for 10mm to feel they are doing it wrong because someone else recommends 6mm buildings. Some people like Marmite, some don't.
Frankly, if people are happy to have their 10mm Imperial Romans fighting over a 3mm scale nuclear power station or a 28mm skyscraper then more power to their elbows ... though I reserve the right to to pass comment if it's a game I'm playing in :)
As to thread derailments ... no idea what you mean Subedai.
BTW does anyone know if the old fantasy mammoth without a howdah is basically naked or does it have a blanket or other trappings? ;)
In Australia they often call a blanket a blankie, a habit my wife picked up there as an exchange student twenty years ago (though fortunately not the accent).
Quote from: FierceKitty on 18 April 2016, 01:22:07 PM
True enough. Funny you should mention tangents; I remember trigonometry was the branch of maths that convinced me I'd never master the art.
They made us learn Algebra. Waste of time. I've still never been there.
Quote from: Tawa on 18 April 2016, 02:31:41 PM
They made us learn Algebra. Waste of time. I've still never been there.
I've been to Algebra but felt I was there just making up the numbers.
COATS!
Quote from: FierceKitty on 18 April 2016, 01:22:07 PM
True enough. Funny you should mention tangents; I remember trigonometry was the branch of maths that convinced me I'd never master the art.
Same here. Pythagoras is about the only theorem I can remember and even that one doesn't get much of an outing these days. Algebra in its basic form is fine, I can cope with that and even managed to assist the smalls with their homework up until second year at least. :) After that forget it, in normal life it's about as much use as a handbrake on a canoe.
Without being pedantic, I always thought maths was a science not an art. ;)
Strangely enough you can get BAs or BScs in Maths.
Maths is beautiful. The way that a Fibonacci series describes the structure of a snail's shell; the encryption on your mobile phone is based of prime numbers; the appreciation of a picture expressing the Golden Ratio. Vitruvian man.
Danny Kaye singing "Inchworm".
I rest my case.
Quote from: fsn on 18 April 2016, 03:28:57 PM
Strangely enough you can get BAs or BScs in Maths.
Maths is beautiful. The way that a Fibonacci series describes the structure of a snail's shell; the encryption on your mobile phone is based of prime numbers; the appreciation of a picture expressing the Golden Ratio. Vitruvian man.
Danny Kaye singing "Inchworm".
I rest my case.
If it's too heavy you can rest your case anywhere you like, but beautiful is not the word I would have chosen to describe maths. I think you either get it or you don't; for most of the time I'm in the latter category. Luckily for us a lot of people do.
Quote from: jimduncanuk on 18 April 2016, 02:36:21 PM
I've been to Algebra but felt I was there just making up the numbers.
Could you not find a Solution to that?
1 part olive oil, 1 part Fairy Liquid, two parts gin.
Your lot's numbers are much more stylish - slashes through zeros, little dashes or tildes through sevens - nice!
Isn't Algebra like a news service or something?
A?
Quote from: d_Guy on 18 April 2016, 04:49:18 PM
Isn't Algebra like a news service or something?
You must be thinking of that newsreader. You know, Mr and Mrs Jazeera's boy, Al. :)
=D>
That's what it is, Mike (and here was me thinking it was Biggles' pal, Algy).
p.s. Not so sure about the slashes and dashes, Bill (sounds more European Continental than British to me).
Quote from: fsn on 18 April 2016, 04:25:00 PM
1 part olive oil, 1 part Fairy Liquid, two parts gin.
Sum cocktail! :-[
Isn't that the recipe for a Bloody Nobby?
Sounds horrific. X_X
This is bloody pointless - if you prefer underscale buildings use them, if not use the others ( but remember to have about 650 figures in your battalion).
Here, here! :)
... er ... I mean .... hear, hear! :-[
Hello Carl
Quote from: CarlLeyland on 17 April 2016, 09:55:01 PM
Haha love it Mr Grouch. Yes I probably agree that when I see a 15mm house being used with 20mm figures I feel sick....I know what you mean. Any good resin 10mm scenery that I may have missed?
Not resin but Tomytec makes plastic kit Japanese N scale (1/150) building that can be used with suitable modifications. Japanese thatched farms are close in appearance to Russian if you squint :)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzM4WDYwMA==/z/54MAAOxyVLNSuj~k/$_12.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDYwWDYwMA==/z/GVgAAOSw7aBVE4qm/$_12.JPG)
They're particularly handy for 20th century industrial
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzkzWDYwMA==/z/9kQAAMXQVT9SrTWU/$_12.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDM4WDYwMA==/z/jxQAAOxyuR5TYbnZ/$_12.JPG)
I get them from Plaza Japan eBay
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Plaza-Japan/_i.html?_nkw=building&submit=Search&_sid=169030440 (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Plaza-Japan/_i.html?_nkw=building&submit=Search&_sid=169030440)
Otherwise there are Kestrel (British style buildings, plastic kit) and Metcalfe (British style, die cut card)
http://www.gaugemaster.com/search_results.asp?searchstring=industrials%20brand~~667~~brand%20%20scale~~%ACn%AC~~scale%20category~~1229~~category (http://www.gaugemaster.com/search_results.asp?searchstring=industrials%20brand~~667~~brand%20%20scale~~%ACn%AC~~scale%20category~~1229~~category)
http://www.gaugemaster.com/search_results.asp?searchstring=industrials%20brand~~631~~brand%20%20scale~~%ACn%AC~~scale%20category~~1229~~category (http://www.gaugemaster.com/search_results.asp?searchstring=industrials%20brand~~631~~brand%20%20scale~~%ACn%AC~~scale%20category~~1229~~category)
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
The buildings all look amazing! I painted the first couple of bases (I will attempt to post some pics later) and it has been a strange experience!
Firstly there is far more detail than I thought....lots more.
Also now that I have started I realise that I need more figures than I had planned for.
I have not developed a method for faces yet...I am starting to understand some of the comments about some of the painters on here now!!!
The jury is out but 10mm is certainly quick to paint but recognisable on the tabletop. This is such a change of pace from 28mm that it is a bit of a shock, I am actually going to be able to get gaming again-I kept glancing at the bookcase with Black Powder and DBM sat on the shelves....
Quote from: CarlLeyland on 19 April 2016, 09:38:54 AM
Also now that I have started I realise that I need more figures than I had planned for.
Now, that sounds familiar ! ;)
Look forward to seeing some piccies, Carl.
Just take your time and enjoy.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: CarlLeyland on 19 April 2016, 09:38:54 AM
I have not developed a method for faces yet...
Please post a video when you do :)
Hi,
A quick update! The infantry are done, 3 companies of 3 stands of 3 figures.
Two HMG's and two artillery pieces....for me it is a very strange scale. Please go easy these are my first 10mm. Whoever said use a lighter palette was very very right. Highlights have to be a lot lighter or they do not show up.
I have no idea how to post a picture on here....and getting a picture at all was fun! If anyone has a "how to" link I will put a coule of snaps on here, thanks
That was quick!
Quote from: CarlLeyland on 19 April 2016, 04:10:20 PM
I have no idea how to post a picture on here....and getting a picture at all was fun! If anyone has a "how to" link I will put a coule of snaps on here, thanks
This thread should help http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11919.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11919.0.html)
Looking forward to seeing your pictures :)
Strange, she never says that to me...
Hi
these are a couple of pics but it was a challenge . 10mm is hard to photograph
(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx181/fosters11/rus%203_zpshjhgrcv9.jpg)
(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx181/fosters11/rus%201_zps5m9zez8b.jpg)
Thanks to the chap who supplied the "how to" link
Quote from: CarlLeyland on 20 April 2016, 05:41:04 PM
Hi
these are a couple of pics but it was a challenge . 10mm is hard to photograph
(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx181/fosters11/rus%203_zpshjhgrcv9.jpg)
(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx181/fosters11/rus%201_zps5m9zez8b.jpg)
Thanks to the chap who supplied the "how to" link
I fixed your photo links.
Though having seen the standard of painting, I wish I hadn't.
Thanks for fixing the links ....
Good work there chap!
Nice :D
Nothing wrong with them at all. Nicely done that man.
Very nice to see those as I don't have any marching figures yet. Must get some of them for my PoW Russian division.
Excellent.....More so, if that's genuinely your first go at 10mm ! 8)
Cheers - Phil
Seconded :)
Thanks for the positive vibe Chaps. WW1 is pretty dull to paint. I have learnt that I need smaller brushes, a lighter palette and some figures for Black Powder. Brighter uniforms maybe easier to paint....?
Don't know if I'd necessarily say 'easier' to paint Carl, but to my old eyes, brighter colours give the wee men more 'punch' when looking at the photo's.
Need a comment from someone who paints both 'types'.
Cheers - Phil
They look pretty damn good to me, the bases really set them off. WW1/11 are very dull and difficult to make stand out, i would paint the base uniform ( it looks like you have but carn't tell with the sun in the pics) as it should be then using the same base colour try mixing it with 25% white to highlight the creases, cuffs etc. The more colourful periods are far easier to paint, i wish i could base as good as you. :)
kev
Thanks for the comments and tips Chaps. I bought a few packs thinking that it was a lot. In 28mm 30 figures is a bit of an undertaking but infact it was nowhere near enough!
On my table they look a bit lost-which is great because I now have flanks to protect or march from!
I will order more and keep practising....this could get addictive!
Quote from: CarlLeyland on 21 April 2016, 09:04:48 AM
.this could get addictive!
I think that the others would say "It WILL get addictive !" ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Definitely stick with that basing style. Lighter bases show off all figures whether C20th types or colourful earlier periods. Bit of a problem in our club where the guy who bought the carpet to cover the tables is colour blind, consequently the tables are dark green.