Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Rules => Topic started by: TSmitter on 29 March 2016, 12:33:49 AM

Title: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: TSmitter on 29 March 2016, 12:33:49 AM
Hi,

Has anyone played Bloody Big Battles and also an old set called Fire and Furia France, they were modifiers of Fire and Fury?

Bloody Big Battles looks to be similar but with a bigger scale. What other differences are there?

Thanks
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Ithoriel on 29 March 2016, 01:01:02 AM
Not a period I'm interested in so on that front I'm not much use.

However several forum members play BBB and there has been mention of Fire And Furia Francese so I'm sure someone will have some info for you.

Since this is your first post let me say hi and welcome to what I've found to be a friendly, helpful and informative forum.

If you've been lurking here you may already realise that the forum is often as weird as it is wonderful with a liberal dash of in-jokes and insanity and a tendency to derail threads. If that last should happen to this or other threads a gentle nudge will usually get things back on track.
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Leon on 29 March 2016, 01:20:42 AM
First off, welcome to the Forum!

Quote from: TSmitter on 29 March 2016, 12:33:49 AM
Bloody Big Battles looks to be similar but with a bigger scale. What other differences are there?

The author of BBB does browse the forum from time to time, so he might be along to give some help here.

8)
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Chris Pringle on 29 March 2016, 06:45:30 AM
Thanks for your interest in BBB. I don't know F&FF well enough to make a direct comparison, and besides, I prefer not to comment on other folks' rules. But I'm happy to mention a few things I think are distinctive or significant about BBB.

The game has been ruthlessly simplified to make it fast and fun and get the job done.
It is geared to a 6'x4' table, 4 players, 3 to 4 hours (though there are a number of scenarios for smaller 2-person, 2-hour games).
Movement, firing and assault are all resolved using 2D6.
Movement rolls integrate command and control elements such as difficult terrain and poor doctrine.
Execution of movement is very simple to avoid fiddly calculations and minimize argument.
All movement and firing distances are in 3" increments so everything is clear and simple and easy to memorise.
Minimal modifiers throughout - enough for realism, few enough to avoid brain pain.
Firing rolls integrate morale results so charges can be stopped by fire.
The scale of the game allows playing huge battles.
There are something like 55 historical scenarios now, mostly freely available via the Yahoo group.

But I also suggest you read some reviews of BBB (of which there are now quite a few about). E.g., Miniature Wargames # 383; or The Foreign Correspondent #105; or online reviews such as this one: http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.fr/2015/03/deep-fried-happy-mice-another-review-of.html ; or plenty more that you can find via my BBBBlog, labeled "Review of BBB": http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.fr/.

You'd be welcome to join the BBB Yahoo group and find out what players have to say.

Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info

Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Leman on 29 March 2016, 07:37:29 AM
I have played  both games and was rather disappointed with Furia Francese and it's offspring, Blud and Eisen. I agree with Chris' comments above about brain pain - far too complex with regards to morale, and too much emphasis on formations requiring a huge number of figures and an equally large table. I much prefer the BBB system of fighting a major battle on a 6'x4' or smaller table, with an affordable number of figures, clear victory conditions and a set time to complete the battle. I also appreciate the support given on the Yahoo group site and the ready supply of scenarios there (it got me into the Pacific War 1878-84). In fifty years of wargaming this is one of only half a dozen rule sets that I have really enjoyed. To finish here's a shot of the BBB Spicheren scenario which I put on at the Liverpool club.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/BBB%206mm%20armies/IMG_1567_zpsszu1uqal.jpg)
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Westmarcher on 29 March 2016, 07:46:36 AM
Very nice layout!  :-bd
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 29 March 2016, 08:09:37 AM
Hello and welcome
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Aksu on 29 March 2016, 08:23:43 AM
Hullo,
apologies for a noob question: what would be a good playable army size for BBB (in bases) for a "normal" scenario, if one was inclined to start yet another mid 19th Century project?
Crimean or 1866 could be interesting, and BBB does sound like a good set of rules.
Cheers,
Aksu
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Techno on 29 March 2016, 09:13:03 AM
Welcome again, TS.
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Leman on 29 March 2016, 09:31:54 AM
Balaclava is a good starter for the Crimea requiring in bases:

Infantry: Russian 42, British 19, French 20, Turkish 4

Cavalry: Russian 6, British 4, French 2

Artillery: Russian 4, British 7, French 2
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Chris Pringle on 29 March 2016, 10:06:29 AM
Quote from: Leman on 29 March 2016, 07:37:29 AM
In fifty years of wargaming this is one of only half a dozen rule sets that I have really enjoyed.

Andy, many thanks for your endorsement, and also for giving Aksu the Balaclava numbers.

Hi Aksu, thanks for the question. There's a document in the Yahoo group files, "Bloody Big European Battles scenario size and bases required", which lists how many bases you need to play the scenarios in the BBEB scenario book, including the 4-scenario Crimean War mini-campaign. You really don't need many bases to have a good game. The smallest Franco-Prussian War scenarios we've done use as few as 32 German bases vs 39 French.

Hope this helps, and if you have more questions, please fire away.
Chris
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Shedman on 29 March 2016, 11:50:40 AM
Welcome to the forum

Quote from: Leman on 29 March 2016, 07:37:29 AM
this is one of only half a dozen rule sets that I have really enjoyed

I have to second Leman's comment - your layout looks superb btw

I use it for 1859 Franco-Austrian war and the Russo-Japanese war  - two totally different wars but they work really well with the single ruleset - sans peaufinage
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Leman on 29 March 2016, 01:38:20 PM
Back in the 80s I invested heavily in 15mm ACW and Johnny Reb II, which I played happily for many years (although rarely completing a game owing to the complexity of the rules). More recently I bought Regimental F&F, and have never completed a game (the last time I played, about 6 months ago, I was playing a segment of Gettysburg - after four sessions totalling 12 hours we packed up having reached turn 9 of 18 turns). My last four games with those figures have all been BBB, and all fought to a conclusion in one or two evening sessions.
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: fsn on 29 March 2016, 04:40:35 PM
Hello Mr Smitter.

Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: ronan on 29 March 2016, 05:20:04 PM
Stop talking about these rules, I will now have to buy them !  =)
How does they play solo ? ( half of my games are solo )

Leman : I also used Johnny Reb II and played a lot, and it was Ok for small fights. Then we switched to the  JR III. It was a bit faster.
"Modern" rules seem to go the right way, "the times they are a changin' "
( I like Piquet FoB for the ACW, now )
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Aksu on 29 March 2016, 06:13:48 PM
Thanks chaps for the info. I promptly enlisted in the yahoo group and found a veritable treasure trove of information. I hope someone at Salute stocks the rules, must pick up a copy.
Cheerio,
Aksu
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Zippee on 29 March 2016, 06:23:48 PM
Northstar has them reduced - they fell off the shelf, honest.

Just what I needed more potential projects  :D
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: ronan on 29 March 2016, 07:01:03 PM
Quote from: Zippee on 29 March 2016, 06:23:48 PM
Northstar has them reduced - they fell off the shelf, honest.

Just what I needed more potential projects  :D

I was trapped and ordered !!
You're bad boys !   ;D

Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: TSmitter on 30 March 2016, 11:17:11 PM
Thanks all
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Leman on 31 March 2016, 07:41:18 AM
You won't regret it Ronan. My best buys over the last year have been BBB and Honours of War. My other go to rules at present are FOB2 and Impetus. I am also looking at the still developing "From Shakos To Coal-Scuttles", which look very promising for battalion level games (available for a small contribution from Wargame Vault).
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Edmund2011 on 12 September 2016, 09:51:21 PM
Ok, ok... after reading this thread and some AAR I am seriously thinking of buying the BBB ruleset  :)

Does anybody know an online store based in the UK (or Europe) where I can buy them?


I am currently playing and enjoying some games of Shako Large Battles (very nice mechanics), and therefore starting to be interested in Grand Tactical games.  :-\

Besides I am looking for simple, fast and fun games (no brain pain as some one said above). BBB seems a good choice.


Can somebody recommend other similar games? I am considering Grande Armée or Might and Reason, but I don¡t know if they are complex.



Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: Chris Pringle on 12 September 2016, 11:12:30 PM
Hi Edmund,

Thanks for your interest in BBB. You can get it from Caliver books:
https://www.caliverbooks.com/bookview.php?a6912e6f6241a63cbfad4da95d373b46&id=23060

I have had a lot of fun with Grande Armee. I wouldn't call it complex.

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.co.uk/
Title: Re: Bloody Big Battles compared
Post by: toxicpixie on 13 September 2016, 10:23:23 AM
For big Napoleonic games I rather like Blucher (others may vary), one base = one Brigade, movement by Corps, in built scenario generation system that gives an asymmetrical game by default so a;ways an interesting challenge for both sides.

But there's a Nappies BBB variant in the Yahoo! Group files which has sounded excellent fun as well, so...