So, after seeing fiercekitty's pictures of Gaugamela, the impetus itch was too great and i dug out my copy. ( yes kitty, i am blaming you for this madness!)
I have some top down paper minis for basic impetus tucked in a folder, but when i pulled them out and started to arrange them, i said to myself:
"These look like cr*p, with 22 years of modelling under my belt, i must surely be able to make something better for this."
So i started looking around. Now ,gaming ancients is something i don't do very much, so i needed a quick solution, before i got distracted by something else. After looking at miniatures, and reaching the conclusion that it would take a long time to get them ready for a game, i went over to juniorgeneral and had a browse of the ancients section for greeks that would fit my plans (stand ups this time) .I wanted to do Sparta vs Athens because i really like hoplites! I have always liked the way hoplites look, with their colourfull shields!
When i finally found what i was looking for, i started printing straight away. I cut, folded and glued all evening ( and a part of the night) yesterday, and had a go at modifying some cavalry with paint this afternoon, after wich i painted and flocked all the bases and finished the army. In less than a day!
I'm pretty happy with the result, as it didn't cost me much, but looks good enough for a decent game.
Now enough jabbering, on to pictures:
the entire lot
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03601_zpspbmvipdw.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03601_zpspbmvipdw.jpg.html)
The spartans:
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03594_zpsxiodubul.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03594_zpsxiodubul.jpg.html)
Spartan hoplite formations with slingers and psiloi to their front
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03595_zpsajdfdn1p.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03595_zpsajdfdn1p.jpg.html)
more spartan units and A few units of perioikoi, with archers in front of them
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03596_zpst20pdlea.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03596_zpst20pdlea.jpg.html)
The army of Athens:
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03597_zpsc5igv1or.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03597_zpsc5igv1or.jpg.html)
Athenian hoplites with psiloi in front of them
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03598_zpsjb5656tk.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03598_zpsjb5656tk.jpg.html)
And more hoplites with slingers and archers in front of them.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03599_zpsclg8aupb.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03599_zpsclg8aupb.jpg.html)
The Athenians also have some cavalry:
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC03600_zpscbqlhedw.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC03600_zpscbqlhedw.jpg.html)
So that's everything!
These force are actually 4 Basic impetus armies instead of 2, as i have chosen to make double the units to use in Multi basic impetus (wich doubles your army)
There are also many more skirmishing units than i need, but as you can choose between archers, slingers and psiloi, i decided to make duplicates of them, so i can choose whatever i want for the battle.
They don't look as good as minis, but i think they are more then enough for the occasional scrap between the City states!
They certainly work!
And you can't get past the speed of production - two armies in one evening is super fast.
I did some top down counters for ACW, and was very pleased with how they looked, and how quickly I could create them, it took nearly as long to duplicate up the graphics to make counters of the right size as it did to cut them all out.
Quote from: fred. on 29 February 2016, 08:41:01 PM
They certainly work!
And you can't get past the speed of production - two armies in one evening is super fast.
I did some top down counters for ACW, and was very pleased with how they looked, and how quickly I could create them, it took nearly as long to duplicate up the graphics to make counters of the right size as it did to cut them all out.
Indeed you can make them fast!
That was one of the reasons that i made my first armies with top down counters. But as i said, with all those beautifull shield designs with hoplite heavy armies, i feel that stand ups are better suited for the job. My top downs only show helmets and spears, and that makes an otherwise colourfull period very bland.It's also easier to visualise the battle when you're sitting down if you can see the troops without having to stick your head out over the table.
I also think i have come to a period in my life where i benefit more from these types of projects than 'normal' miniature projects. With the baby and the busy schedule of work, soccer practice and matches for the boy, and not neglecting SWMBO, there is almost no time to finish stuff, so when i can get an evening in to finish painting a single model or unit, it's more productive to do this sort of stuff (or small miniature projects like my zombie games) as opposed to getting those 700 miniatures painted to game a certain period. There are 843 paper blokes in these forces and they finish much quicker :D
It's a good wargaming fix to bridge those first two busy years of baby-care. I remember it getting better after that, it did so with our first child. Of course there are also enough miniatures in my lead pile for when i feel the need to paint too!
Definitely a good way to bridge those busy years :)
The flock certainly makes a difference
Thanks!
I had the bases entirely plain at first, but it just looked muchto plain. Luckily i had a tub of flock i almost never use (i mostly use static grass), so i put that on. Really happy with how that worked!
Paper figures defiantly move wargames closer to board games, both in look and probably more importantly in the speed of setup.
And as you say time is at a premium with small children - it does get better. Then after a few years they want transporting around lots to various events and activities.
These do look good and the flocking helps.
Over on LAF there are some pictures of some paper figures by Peter Dennis for both WoTR and Norman conquest period - these are very detailed, they look like the boxes for Perry miniatures. And on these they have cut out all the weapons and banners and other sticky up stuff - looks like a nightmare to cut. I actually quite like the white around the spears on these guys - gives a kind of informal cartoon style .
They look good Peter. Where did you find the images, or did you do them yourself?
Quote from: fred. on 29 February 2016, 11:03:33 PM
I actually quite like the white around the spears on these guys - gives a kind of informal cartoon style .
I like them that way, makes them more sturdy, and also means i can stack the bases on top of each other for limited storage.
Quote from: Fenton on 29 February 2016, 11:40:24 PM
They look good Peter. Where did you find the images, or did you do them yourself?
They come from juniorgeneral.org:
hoplites:
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/index.php/figure/view/GreekHoplitesSyracusan
for cavalry i recolored nr 4 in this one:
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/index.php/figure/view/AntigonidCavalry
and for skirmishers i just used these:
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/index.php/figure/view/AntigonidInfantry
There's more to be had if you are looking for phalanx in the same style too:
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/index.php/figure/view/AntigonidPhalanx
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/index.php/figure/view/GreekPhalangitesKoinonHellenon
Cheers
I am tempted to do this just so I can get some games I
I like those a lot and must give them a go on a variety of projects.
I have looked at the Junior General site a number of time and thought...maybe. With those groupings and bases the needle of interest has moved well into the plus zone now. Great idea plus the basing does all the selling for you.
I've sent this thread to Junior General himself, he loves it!
Those look brilliant! :)
Definitely an idea :-\
They're excellent, Peter!
Definitely a good use of an evening-ish plus. Lets hope they perform on table :)
I have had some fun with paper armies over the last ten years. All top downs though.
Quote from: Fenton on 01 March 2016, 12:03:15 AM
I am tempted to do this just so I can get some games I
I can only recommend this! Just look at the speed of it all! I started sunday evening, and if all goes well i'm having a game this evening on tuesday. Could have had a game yesterday, but wanted to re-read the rules first as it was almost a year ago i played them.
Quote from: Subedai on 01 March 2016, 09:39:44 AM
I have looked at the Junior General site a number of time and thought...maybe. With those groupings and bases the needle of interest has moved well into the plus zone now. Great idea plus the basing does all the selling for you.
Yes i had been looking at juniorgeneral for quite some time, but always thought i wouldn't get a sataisfying result. Glad i tried!
Quote from: mad lemmey on 01 March 2016, 10:00:12 AM
I've sent this thread to Junior General himself, he loves it!
:-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd Tell him he did a great job with the site!
Quote from: RoyWilliamson on 01 March 2016, 11:05:28 AM
Those look brilliant! :)
Definitely an idea :-\
Thanks!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 01 March 2016, 11:26:19 AM
They're excellent, Peter!
Definitely a good use of an evening-ish plus. Lets hope they perform on table :)
Well, you know that freshly painted troops always bite the dust, maybe freshly printed troops perform differently? :-\ :-\ :-\
Quote from: Leman on 01 March 2016, 11:30:19 AM
I have had some fun with paper armies over the last ten years. All top downs though.
Out of curiosity, what do you game with them? The 'usual' periods (for example ACW, nappies etc) Or the less known stuff? Asking this, because to me it looks like the ideal way to do battles for wich it's hard to find suitable minis.Looking at you Belgian revolution!
So, just came to the conclusion that i didn't base my troops correctly, i made them all the same bases except the cavalry, but i should have made the skirmisher bases too deep. They are 3 cm deep but should have been 2 deep max.
I misread the basing standard (in a hurry to get started) and based them as light infantry.
I'm going to leave them like that though, as it doesn't really make a difference for the game, only for interpenetration or flank charges. I'll can probably houserule the interpenetration one, by not counting the first centimeter of the rear end of the base when determining if they can be moved through, but i will see if that is really neccessary first.
I don't think it will be a problem though.
So these armies had their first show off, and the spartans routed the athenian army with little trouble.
Started off pretty equal, with both sides taking out a unit of each others skirmishers (played the BI rules as is, and again shows that no evade rules for skirmishers is a big nono in BI).
After that the hoplites traded blows (or spear stabs if you will) and the spartans quickly gained the upper hand when a 4 base group charge managed to come short for all but 1 base, leaving the other 3 disordered and at the mercy of the spartans, who still had to move (athens had initiative in that round)
AS i was rooting for the spartans, this goes to show that freshly printed guys perform better as opposed to freshly painted blokes!
In response, the armies were put together by one of my regular opponents to play Maurice and the FPW and APW. He holds all the armies, apart from the two forces suggested by Neil Thomas for his refight of Nachod. They are quite effective and the armies can be built up over a couple of days. However, I have then gone on to replace those armies with metal. Incidentally my friend sized the copies so that they could be cut out and mounted on 40mm frontage bases to give them a bit of heft.
Ok thanks!
That seems like a great way to do it too, making the paper armies first so you can start gaming, and then finihing the models over time to phase out the paper. :-\
I know i am till browsing the ancients section, so who knows :D
Great stuff.
1st paper models I saw were a freebie from Standard Games for Hastings and since going online I've collected 100's of them. Sadly due to a succession of terrible Epson printers I've never
got around to doing any. Seeing these could be the spur to give Rymans 20p to print one then photocopy the rest :-bd
kb
Don't hesitate! I have Played 4 games already and they definately do the job!
I've found some nice micro-size units that should be perfect for both Bloody Big Battles and Honours of War :)
Yes the micro size stuff on there looks great! Shame tey don't have them for ECW!
Hello All
Quote from: petercooman on 02 March 2016, 09:34:37 PM
Yes the micro size stuff on there looks great! Shame tey don't have them for ECW!
You can grab images (with the owners permission of course) and resize them to fit on a micro scale. Here's an image from the Perrys:-
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/ecw28.jpg)
Below is one that has been resized, sharpened and contrasted up.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
:-bd :-bd
Hi
Just did a quick search on other pike and shot pictures that could be used:-
(https://djokergaming.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/final2big.jpg)
(http://www.clashofempires.ca/Blog/Grana%202.jpg)
(http://www.madaxeman.com/images/Figures/15mmRen/IMGP3656.JPG)
These are just examples and remember to get the owners permission before using them.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Lots of ingenuity here - good luck to you all - but they wouldn't satisfy me without the slight feeling of metallic mass when handled, and the "clunk" as they are set down. A bit like playing mah jong with cards rather than tiles.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 03 March 2016, 02:09:16 AM
Lots of ingenuity here - good luck to you all - but they wouldn't satisfy me without the slight feeling of metallic mass when handled, and the "clunk" as they are set down. A bit like playing mah jong with cards rather than tiles.
Well, if you play hex and counter wargames, you are used to pushing paper around, so that's an easier transition ;)
Had a multi basic impetus battle using almost all troops yesterday, sparta won the day, but only just. The last turn started with Sparta at 19/20 to demoralize, and Athens at 20/22. Both armies had some elements close to breaking, so it really came down to who could seize the initiative. Sparta won the initiative roll, and so was able to pull out their unit with 1 hit left, and move it out of charge range. Denying Athens the kill for this turn. The Spartans then ganged up on the last hoplites on the Athens left flank and finished them, winning the battle! (1 hoplite unit counts as 3 points towards demoralization)
Highlight of the game: a unit of spartan slingers who routed a unit of cavalry with a single volley! As that unit had effectively infiltrated the spartan battle line , and was heading for theunit of spartan hoplites with 1 remaining hitpoint, that unit could have ended it all a turn sooner!