Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => 20th Century => Topic started by: Sunray on 15 February 2016, 04:27:43 PM

Title: new games with the Centurion
Post by: Sunray on 15 February 2016, 04:27:43 PM
I see the M47 is in the pipeline.  This makes possible the 1965 Indo-Pakistani war with its unique battles between Centurions and the M47s.

Infantry is at  push WWII British and Airborne .  The battles of the Indo-Pakistani dispute are sadly neglected.    I am still waiting for an aircraft manufacturer to make the Folland Gnat in 1/144, but you can have fun with Hunters V Sabres   
Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 15 February 2016, 05:02:29 PM
Cept the Pakistani armour was mostly M48 0r Sherman  :'(

IanS
Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: fsn on 15 February 2016, 06:03:03 PM
Quote from: Sunray on 15 February 2016, 04:27:43 PM
I see the M47 is in the pipeline.  This makes possible the 1965 Indo-Pakistani war with its unique battles between Centurions and the M47s.

Hmmm. Have you any good sources? I seen bits here and there, but not happened upon anything that strikes my fancy.
Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: Sunray on 15 February 2016, 07:00:41 PM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 15 February 2016, 05:02:29 PM
Cept the Pakistani armour was mostly M48 0r Sherman  :'(

IanS

Funny you should claim that Ian.  What is your primary source ?  :-\

I would respectfully refer you to the Official Pakistani Defence Forum www.pakdef.org/patton-m-47-48

It states the Pakistani OOB as follows:-

M47 -   230
M48 -   202
M4 -     200
M24 -   150

On the basis of this source, the M47 was  numerical the largest model of  tank in the Pakistani inventory.  It also took a fair share of the action. 

I am not a fan of Wikipedia but significantly the image on the M47 page includes a war trophy memorial  in India.

Both M47 and M48 and indeed the earlier M46 where confusingly known as Pattons.

There are loads of good sources on the net- just be careful of partisan accounts.

Hope this is useful.

Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: GrumpyOldMan on 15 February 2016, 09:42:00 PM
Hello James/Sunray

Quote from: Sunray on 15 February 2016, 04:27:43 PM
I am still waiting for an aircraft manufacturer to make the Folland Gnat in 1/144, but you can have fun with Hunters V Sabres   

Shapeways has a 1/285 version of the Gnat at http://www.shapeways.com/product/QCCGUPNWP/1-285-6mm-folland-gnat (http://www.shapeways.com/product/QCCGUPNWP/1-285-6mm-folland-gnat). Maybe you can contact the designer if he'll do a special up scaling for you to 1/144.

(http://images3.sw-cdn.net/model/picture/625x465_271428_5372721_1429673332.jpg)

Cheers

Vic/GrumpyOldMan
(Good Lord - Butter me on both sides the Preview is working again)
Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: Sunray on 16 February 2016, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: fsn on 15 February 2016, 06:03:03 PM
Hmmm. Have you any good sources? I seen bits here and there, but not happened upon anything that strikes my fancy.

David R Higgins has just published in the last weeks with Osprey and while he majors on the clash between the newer M48 and Centurion, he is an accomplished historian who will give you a flavour of the war in the very readable Osprey style.

The images I have seen on the ebook version show  assorted M47 and M48 wrecks proving that both Patton versions saw extensive combat.

A recommended read.



 
Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: Sunray on 16 February 2016, 07:49:22 PM
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 15 February 2016, 09:42:00 PM
Hello James/Sunray

Shapeways has a 1/285 version of the Gnat at http://www.shapeways.com/product/QCCGUPNWP/1-285-6mm-folland-gnat (http://www.shapeways.com/product/QCCGUPNWP/1-285-6mm-folland-gnat). Maybe you can contact the designer if he'll do a special up scaling for you to 1/144.

(http://images3.sw-cdn.net/model/picture/625x465_271428_5372721_1429673332.jpg)

Cheers

Vic/GrumpyOldMan

Many thanks for this Vic - James
(Good Lord - Butter me on both sides the Preview is working again)
Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: mart678 on 19 February 2016, 05:30:31 PM
M47's where used by Pakistan for definite also Ethiopia ,Somalia supplied by Saudi Arabia also Jordan used them against Israel and Iran in there war against Iraq also have an up armoured version called Sabalan

Does this help oh not forgetting Battle of the Bulge :D :D
Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 20 February 2016, 08:18:35 AM
Matt - you missed the main user - France. Portugal had 22 of them as well, and Spain had a fair few.

IanS
Title: Re: new games with the Centurion
Post by: Sunray on 20 February 2016, 11:52:09 AM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 20 February 2016, 08:18:35 AM
Matt - you missed the main user - France. Portugal had 22 of them as well, and Spain had a fair few.

IanS

Ummmmm.  :-\   Ian, the main user- outside USA was -FRG (West Germany) with 1,120  M47s.  The French by comparison acquired just 856.  The French hoped to have their own MBT (AMX-30) by the end of the 1950s Source  Steven Zaloga The M47/48 (Osprey Vanguard, 1999), pp.13-14. 

The French however were first to see combat - Suez is a great wee wargame and just right for the table.