Some questions about C18 Scottish terrain for those more knowledgeable about such things than me - with a view to period around 1685 - 1745.
1. From what I can gather all the '45 Jacobite rebellion battlefields had "park" walls somewhere on them. Do these represent the boundries of a particular lards/clans estates, or only mark the lards own particular "personal" estates?
2. When driving round Angus, Fife etc last year we came across a lot of quite high old stone walls along roads etc - would these be "park" walls?
3. How substantial would "park" walls be height wise? are they always made of stone or so they use timber etc as well (too early for good old No 8 fencing wire ;) ).
4. Are Scots C18 rural farms and "great houses" (such as Col Gardeners estate adjacent to the Prestonpans battlefield), generally similar to other European buildings of the period?
5. Can anyone recommend any particular models from Total Battle Miniatures or Escenografia Epsilon that PM stock?
I'm about as "far across the water" as I can get from Scotland so any help appreciated 8)
First thing is that a 'park' in Scots can simply mean a field, so depending on where you are the fields could be bounded by dry-stane dykes (dry stone walls, i.e. built without the aid of mortar.) Obviously stone was used because it was the most readily at hand material. Other parts used hedges, banks, ditches, etc. The 'park' is the land immediately surrounding the proprietors house. There's an old Scots saying about someone 'viewing the parks' which is a tongue-in-cheek reference to a proud owner strolling around admiring their own garden.
The larger varieties usually form the boundaries of estates' land, if you follow them you'll more than likely happen upon an elaborate gateway with a gatehouse, which is the main entrance and a road leading directly to the 'big hoose'. The larger the wall, the closer it is to the inner sanctum of the estate. Further out the boundaries would be marked by the same means as any other field (park).
I'm no expert in 18th century colloquial architecture but what you tend to find is that aspiring persons would model their properties on the impressive structures they had seen on the European 'grand tour', or having seen great houses south of the border. Scots farms like anywhere else can range from a one room 'black house' to structures akin to Hougoumont at Waterloo. Large estates had what was known as the 'mains' which was the large home farm of the estate, the tenantry would have had much smaller establishments. In the North-East of Scotland fermtouns are common, these are large establishments commonly of buildings surrounding a central yard. The fermtoun housed the farm workers as well as the tenant or owner.
Hope this is of some help; punching these terms into Google should get plenty of info'.
Aye. Wot he said.
In Shetland, park walls are about 4' high (breast high) and made of dry stone - there being no trees on the islands. They're easy enough to maintain and allow for some shelter to the animals in periods of high wind (January to December). My grandfather did tell me that the gaps in the wall allowed the wind to blow through, but maybe he was just a poor drywaller.
There are some posh people who have mortared walls around their houses, but I've not seen anything so grand around a park.
A bastle (fortified farmhouse) and surrounding fermtoun from Glenochar in around 1600. Wouldn't look too much different 100 years later.
(http://www.archaeology.co.uk/images/stories/features/timeline/glenochar/glendraw.jpg)
More on Glenochar here (http://www.archaeology.co.uk/specials/the-timeline-of-britain/glenochar-a-bastle-and-its-fermtoun.htm)
The Escenografia Ukranian houses aren't too far off the fermtoun buidings though the walls should really be exposed stone rather than rendered.
(http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ProductImages/EF02.jpg)
Only the biggest of the Scottish lairds were called lards.
Tartan is looking more and more likely in my painting future :-SS ;)
(http://www.shetlandvisitor.com/assets/images/enlargeable/area-guides/south-mainland/croft-house-1600.jpg)(http://www.aboutbritain.com/images/attraction/big/mousa-broch-shetland-8493424.jpg)(http://www.northlinkferries.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/papa-stour-airstrip-large.jpg)
Is that the family homestead?
(http://yourlocalweb.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/00/97/13/looking-towards-crabba-skerry-1105538.jpg)
I was born in the long white house in the upper middle of the picture.
Quote from: Leman on 04 February 2016, 01:33:20 PM
Only the biggest of the Scottish lairds were called lards.
Opps my spellings a bit off :-[ Maybe they visited clan MacDonald frequently :)
Thanks for all the replies...very helpful.
Quote from: pierre the shy on 04 February 2016, 09:20:25 AM
Some questions about C18 Scottish terrain for those more knowledgeable about such things than me - with a view to period around 1685 - 1745.
1. From what I can gather all the '45 Jacobite rebellion battlefields had "park" walls somewhere on them. Do these represent the boundries of a particular lards/clans estates, or only mark the lards own particular "personal" estates?
2. When driving round Angus, Fife etc last year we came across a lot of quite high old stone walls along roads etc - would these be "park" walls?
3. How substantial would "park" walls be height wise? are they always made of stone or so they use timber etc as well (too early for good old No 8 fencing wire ;) ).
4. Are Scots C18 rural farms and "great houses" (such as Col Gardeners estate adjacent to the Prestonpans battlefield), generally similar to other European buildings of the period?
5. Can anyone recommend any particular models from Total Battle Miniatures or Escenografia Epsilon that PM stock?
I'm about as "far across the water" as I can get from Scotland so any help appreciated 8)
Quote from: pierre the shy on 04 February 2016, 09:20:25 AM
Some questions about C18 Scottish terrain for those more knowledgeable about such things than me - with a view to period around 1685 - 1745.
1. From what I can gather all the '45 Jacobite rebellion battlefields had "park" walls somewhere on them. Do these represent the boundries of a particular lards/clans estates, or only mark the lards own particular "personal" estates?
I lectured on the socio economic history of GB and know a wee bit about the terms used for land. In the 17th Century the word 'Park' meant the same in England and Scotland = land enclosed or reserved such as Windsor Great Park. In the 18th Century however, all enclosed land in Scotland was called 'park' or 'perk'. Unenclosed cultivated land was simply called a field. The tradition of creating enclosed parks spread throughout Scotland due to the modern 18th Century practice of rotating crops and the need to restrain the grazing of sheep or cattle
2. When driving round Angus, Fife etc last year we came across a lot of quite high old stone walls along roads etc - would these be "park" walls?
3. How substantial would "park" walls be height wise? are they always made of stone or so they use timber etc as well (too early for good old No 8 fencing wire ;) ).
The high of the walls can relate to the nature of the animal being restrained. Drystone walling is practised on most upland UK and Ireland- in lowland areas thick thorn hedges and ditches were created as enclosure. The stones are usually recovered from the ground where they were deposited by glacial action. And yes, in 1745 these enclosed fields would have been known as parks. Around the big estates of landed gentry you find very high walls. This is to keep the deer in, and the poachers out.
4. Are Scots C18 rural farms and "great houses" (such as Col Gardeners estate adjacent to the Prestonpans battlefield), generally similar to other European buildings of the period?
Scottish great houses vary in period, social status and location. The fortified house such are mentioned above were a distinct feature of the Borders area and built during the troubled Rever period. Not so common to the rest of Scotland. A solid farmhouse could be in stone three story with a double gable and slate roof. If you google "18th century Scottish farmhouses" who will get the range of images . The common term for a farm and yard in Scotland is "Mains" which comes from the Norman term demesne. In addition to the sturdy stone build house of the farmer there would be smaller cottages for herdsmen and labourers. These could be thatched single story with an earthen floor. In the highlands single story dwellings or crofts were more common.
5. Can anyone recommend any particular models from Total Battle Miniatures or Escenografia Epsilon that PM stock?
Suggest you have a look at the images and select what is most accurate to your needs.
I'm about as "far across the water" as I can get from Scotland so any help appreciated 8)
Hope this is helpful
Sorry Sunray, can't agree with some of your comments.
The Scottish National Dictionary has "Park, in the acceptation of the English law, is a large extent of ground inclosed and privileged for wild beasts of the chase, by royal grant, or by prescription. In Scotland, park has no such signification, the synonymous term being forest, whereby is meant a large tract of inclosed ground where deer are kept"
'The common term for a farm and yard in Scotland is "Mains" which comes from the Norman term demesne.' It is indeed common in Scotland but refers to (in English terms) the 'home' farm, not just any farm. That's why on Ordnance Survey maps farms don't all have 'mains' in the name. There is also a Gaelic root, ' Mànas' as in 'Mànas Fhionnghasg for Mains of Fingask', i.e. the home farm of Fingask Castle in Perthshire.
The Border structures you refer to are 'Bastle Houses', fortified farmhouses on both sides of the Border whose heyday was in the 16th century at the height of Border Reivers' activity. Colonel Gardner's Burnfoot House at Prestonpans was unlikely to have been a Bastle house. It is described as a 'Detached House (17th century)', so it's walls were basically garden walls.
Quote from: fsn on 04 February 2016, 09:18:30 PM
I was born in the long white house in the upper middle of the picture.
Interesting, and from where were you born?
This is a great thread btw. since I try to do 17th century Scotland (an Ireland) I am still trying to get a better feel for the look of the land and structures. This has been helpful - thanks all!
Quote from: SV52 on 05 February 2016, 12:17:34 AM
Sorry Sunray, can't agree with some of your comments.
The Scottish National Dictionary has "Park, in the acceptation of the English law, is a large extent of ground inclosed and privileged for wild beasts of the chase, by royal grant, or by prescription. In Scotland, park has no such signification, the synonymous term being forest, whereby is meant a large tract of inclosed ground where deer are kept"
There is the de jury term and there is the de facto common use. By the 1740s a park was used to describe enclosures- its a case where Wikipedia is not always right. I have seen it in too many primary source Scots documents. As you do when you research a doctorate. Phrases like "three park lengths away" Sorry
'The common term for a farm and yard in Scotland is "Mains" which comes from the Norman term demesne.' It is indeed common in Scotland but refers to (in English terms) the 'home' farm, not just any farm. That's why on Ordnance Survey maps farms don't all have 'mains' in the name. There is also a Gaelic root, ' Mànas' as in 'Mànas Fhionnghasg for Mains of Fingask', i.e. the home farm of Fingask Castle in Perthshire.
Yes the use has resorted to the home farm or main farmyard. Interesting you quote a Gaelic word. I speak a little Ulster Gaelic and can communicate freely with the inhabitants of Lewis. Again you have relied on Wikipedia. Like all languages words are lifted from other tongues. Gaelic was no exception. Can you find many Mains outside the Norman influence and settlement? There also is primary source evidence of new farms in the 1800s being styled Mains. What we may be getting is Gaelic speakers translating a Scots-Norman term into their own vernacular.
The Border structures you refer to are 'Bastle Houses', fortified farmhouses on both sides of the Border whose heyday was in the 16th century at the height of Border Reivers' activity. Colonel Gardner's Burnfoot House at Prestonpans was unlikely to have been a Bastle house. It is described as a 'Detached House (17th century)', so it's walls were basically garden walls.
Yes, I know. My comment regarding the Border Bastle was in response to an earlier entry on the thread- scroll back and you will see it. Now, the point of the thread. Peter wants a model. Timecast 7/005 put two together to give the double hipped roof, and you have a sturdy Scottish 18th century farm.
Quote from: Sunray on 05 February 2016, 06:53:19 AM
Yes, I know. My comment regarding the Border Bastle was in response to an earlier entry on the thread- scroll back and you will see it.
Now, the point of the thread. Peter wants a model. Timecast 7/005 put two together to give the double hipped roof, and you have a sturdy Scottish 18th century farm.
8)
For wargaming purposes I would suggest two types of wall: the lowly dry-stone type designed to contain animals and the gentrified high stone wall designed to keep people out.
For example: the infamous wall at Culloden (which I have urinated against) would be the low type; the wall around Tranent Church at Prestonpans which withstood the first cannon shots of the '45 would be the high type.
Quote from: WeeWars on 05 February 2016, 12:38:17 PM
For example: the infamous wall at Culloden (which I have urinated against) would be the low type;
Tooooooo much information!
Is that why you're called WEE Wars?
That would be Wee-weeWars. :D
Quote from: SV52 on 05 February 2016, 09:58:58 AM
8)
I was in the Irish Department of University of Ulster today, and asked about Ma'nas - it has no Irish meaning- Irish Gaelic being the pure mother tongue. This probably means it is lifted from P Celt (Ancient Briton), Norse, Old English or Norman.
The Gaels do things like this. They have just invented a word
Te'armai' cosu'la it translates "website", and is a literal translation of the English. I note that Gaelic speakers on BBC Alba still use the English word.
If you are wanting to know more about Scottish parks/perks and fields beyond Wikipedia google search , I would recommend an article like George Whittington's
Was there a Scottish Agricultural Revolution? Royal Geographical Society, Vol 7, No 3 (1975), pp.204-206.
Forum goes quiet as all readers file off to find the nearest university library........
I'll be in the classics section, catching up with 20 years of 'Britannia'!
I have to say I am mighty impressed with the demand for authenticity that today's gamers demand in scenic. Why back in the 1970/80, I can remember articles in Wargame magazines where the same plastic Hong Kong "Bluebell" farmhouse and barn graced every table from Waterloo to Kursk.
Quote from: Sunray on 05 February 2016, 08:02:34 PM
I was in the Irish Department of University of Ulster today, and asked about Ma'nas - it has no Irish meaning- Irish Gaelic being the pure mother tongue. This probably means it is lifted from P Celt (Ancient Briton), Norse, Old English or Norman.
The Gaels do things like this. They have just invented a word Te'armai' cosu'la it translates "website", and is a literal translation of the English. I note that Gaelic speakers on BBC Alba still use the English word.
If you are wanting to know more about Scottish parks/perks and fields beyond Wikipedia google search , I would recommend an article like George Whittington's Was there a Scottish Agricultural Revolution? Royal Geographical Society, Vol 7, No 3 (1975), pp.204-206.
Forum goes quiet as all readers file off to find the nearest university library........
Better get on to these guys and tell them their wrong and giving misleading information:
http://www.cairnwater.co.uk/faclair/?txtSearch=m%C3%A0nas
Much obliged I now have sufficient insight.
Quote from: SV52 on 06 February 2016, 11:58:04 AM
Better get on to these guys and tell them their wrong and giving misleading information:
http://www.cairnwater.co.uk/faclair/?txtSearch=m%C3%A0nas
Much obliged I now have sufficient insight.
No, they are not wrong. The word is valid and correct in Scots Gaelic, in the same way that "bungalow" is not in the pure Georgia English of Jane Austin ..."Mr Darcy is in the bungalow[sic]". We lifted it from Indian Urdu in the days of Empire. So it is valid in the Estuary English (so called because of the socio-cultural dominance of the Thames estuary demographic ) we speak today. As are loads of American words and "text speak".
The Scots have lots of words lifted from Norse and English.
Even pure Irish Gaelic varies. In the pure form the word for boy is Balach. In parts of Ireland where the Anglo-Norman settled we have the word garcon. But this is Saturday. I have no students or tutorials ...
so please lets talk wargaming.
Quote from: Sunray on 06 February 2016, 11:40:27 AM
I have to say I am mighty impressed with the demand for authenticity that today's gamers demand in scenic. Why back in the 1970/80, I can remember articles in Wargame magazines where the same plastic Hong Kong "Bluebell" farmhouse and barn graced every table from Waterloo to Kursk.
In my youth, my games regularly saw Napoleon's army attack or defend the Oakham level crossing signal box.
I'm not so much impressed as bemused by the level of detail required by gamers these days in both figures and scenics. For me they are playing pieces, it's nice if they look nice but what matters is that players can tell what's what.
Erm ...... don't think we speak Estuary English in Merseyside, unless of course it's the Mersey estuary.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 06 February 2016, 01:21:34 PM
In my youth, my games regularly saw Napoleon's army attack or defend the Oakham level crossing signal box.
I love this beautiful hobby (obsession?) because we can do it to the detail that pleases us - can admire shear artistry when we see it - but in the end it is all about the games - and the stories we tell about them to ourselves - and to each other.
Quote from: Leman on 06 February 2016, 02:21:11 PM
Erm ...... don't think we speak Estuary English in Merseyside, unless of course it's the Mersey estuary.
It is heartening that even you'uns don't always understand each other! :D
Quote from: Leman on 06 February 2016, 02:21:11 PM
Erm ...... don't think we speak Estuary English in Merseyside, unless of course it's the Mersey estuary.
Its not so much the accent - its the words and phrases are changing . Even in places like Liverpool. The pure Scouser dialect that I would have heard on the Netherfield Road 50 years ago have been decanted to places like Norris Green and diluted. Dominant media changes things. Down in the Dingle amongst the older generation where you have a settled community you still hear authentic Scouser. They are impervious to Estuary English - and see the folk from Bootle as from another planet.
Quote from: Sunray on 06 February 2016, 11:40:27 AM
I have to say I am mighty impressed with the demand for authenticity that today's gamers demand in scenic. Why back in the 1970/80, I can remember articles in Wargame magazines where the same plastic Hong Kong "Bluebell" farmhouse and barn graced every table from Waterloo to Kursk.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 06 February 2016, 01:21:34 PM
In my youth, my games regularly saw Napoleon's army attack or defend the Oakham level crossing signal box.
I'm not so much impressed as bemused by the level of detail required by gamers these days in both figures and scenics. For me they are playing pieces, it's nice if they look nice but what matters is that players can tell what's what.
Back in the 1970/80 our choice was so much more limited, today we have a vast array of choice :)
Getting the details right helps transport us in time and space, or as d_Guy says helps to tell the story
For the majority of us right is a relative term so we can find where on the spectrum suits our group of players :)
Spectrum! I had an Amstrad! :'(
Quote from: mad lemmey on 06 February 2016, 08:37:47 PM
Spectrum! I had an Amstrad! :'(
And over here - a C64! :)
BBC for me. I still play Elite on it occasionally... I had an Atari ST after that
I had a spectrum for a long time and felt like I'd been jipped, it had been my Dad's, and I really envied my friends with c64s (then in due course Amigas, STs etc). I eventually got a c64 and spurned the speccy.
I now see the spectrum's limited but colourful graphics as beautiful, and the c64's odd rectangular pixels and weird washed out colours as unappealing. By chance I happened to take a rare day off today and spent it loading Spectrum games on to my 3DS; they look great on that small screen. Gaming has moved on a lot since, but they are still fun to play for 15 minute chunks.
Well not to waller too much in nostalgia BUT my favorite C64 game was "raid on Bungling Bay" .
ZX80, then ZX81 with 1K RAM pack, then Spectrum with "dead squid" keyboard replaced by a proper one and a micro-tape drive for extra storage, then Amstrad CPC 464, an Amstrad CPC 6128 and finally on to real PCs and the, then cutting edge, 486 DX-2 processor!
"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"* - Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr
* The more things change the more they stay the same :)
I too have fond memories of Raid on Bungling Bay, played on a friends C64, Guy.
Well this thread appears to have been well and truely hijacked - from drystone Scots boundry wallls to 1980's computers in under a page?!? :ar!
Sometimes I used to lie awake at night dreaming about owning a 486 DX-2 PC......but you try telling the young people of today that and they won't believe you :o
(http://c8.alamy.com/comp/ABPRX3/cleits-and-dry-stone-walls-hirta-st-kilda-western-isles-scotland-uk-ABPRX3.jpg)
There are also small stone enclosures used for sheep pens.
(Spectrum ZX)
Actually, I've been meditating a few stone sheepfolds like that as terrain features. How about a few shepherd figures?
Gang......
I've had a very nice (Not grumpy in any way) :) request, to 'split this topic' as we seem to have veered off a really interesting thread regarding the Scottish Park Walls, to one which is now also involved with old 'computers'.....Also a very interesting discussion. :)
Could we (for the moment, at least) keep this thread to 'the walls'....And if necessary start a new thread for the old computers ?
I CAN split threads....(Apparently....I've got a button.) .....But blank knows what will happen, if I try this before Leon is back.
(If you want me to delete or modify a post you've typed out......NO PROBLEM ! ;)..........But I'm not sure what will happen if I start trying 'splitting' threads. X_X)
Cheers - Phil
I confess, it was me. I really would like a thread about computers, but don't want to continue to hijack this topic. I'll go off and start that thread then!
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,13608.msg190879/topicseen.html#msg190879
Quote from: Techno on 07 February 2016, 12:10:13 PM
I CAN split threads....
And hairs. And doubtless hares.
I had a mate who could direct two streams of urine ... yes, he could split pees.
Quote from: fsn on 07 February 2016, 12:51:31 PM
I had a mate who could direct two streams of urine ... yes, he could split pees.
;D
But to return the thread to walls (and not a new topic on micturation - which we could have slipped to earlier BTW)
In your picture of sheep enclosures (with roofless cottages behind) to what period would these date?
I had read John Prebble's
The Highland Clearances years ago and have rooted in my mind that there is an explosion in building sheep pens after 1745. But I may also conflate Irish history with this. Adding to my confusion I am not overly clear as to precisely what is highland and what is not.
Quote from: WeeWars on 05 February 2016, 12:38:17 PM
For wargaming purposes I would suggest two types of wall: the lowly dry-stone type designed to contain animals and the gentrified high stone wall designed to keep people out.
Would it be correct to use the lowly dry-stone wall through-out Scotland in the seventeenth century?
Would the high stone privacy wall exist outside of the lowland cities in the same time period?
I can only talk for my own islands. There, the houses seem to have been that way for centuries. My own is supposed to date from the C15.
There are no trees on the islands, so stone dykes are the only option.
Stone walls occur where you have a ready supply of the raw material in the soil. This is pretty much all of Scotland. The Highland clearances stimulated by the fact that sheep and game were more profitable than people . This meant a lot less enclosed plots. By contrast the Lowlands were to see the classical agrarian revolution in modern farming methods. By the Victorian era, the books and instruction on farming had changed the language. Scottish farmers generally dropped the term 'perk' and began to talk about fields.
Ireland had a different tale. There were no clearances and little emigration apart from Protestant Ulster. The 19th century population exploded. The staple diet was the potato. Hence the human tragedy on a biblical scale when the crop failed.
Quote from: fsn on 07 February 2016, 04:24:26 PM
I can only talk for my own islands. There, the houses seem to have been that way for centuries. My own is supposed to date from the C15.
There are no trees on the islands, so stone dykes are the only option.
Thanks. I have never been to to the Highlands and Islands - only the lowlands around the Forth littorial and up toward Aberdeen a few times.
Have been to Aran islands (off Gaway in the Republic of Ireland) and they are much as you describe. I know they are trying re-forest areas of Scotland and trying to figure out what the Highlands looked like in 17th c.
Incidentally since you are noted for throwing curveballs that are hard to hit - if you were, in fact, born it the house you suggested - your homeland is starkly beautiful!
Sunray,
Thanks also.
I expressed my question poorly. Prior to 1745 in Scotland and the Ascendancy in Ireland, the image I have is of many low-walled fields all over the place. After - these were torn down (as well as most cottages) to open up grazing land. Because of the vast increase in sheep the stones were re-employed to build a multitude of pens for sheep shearing and such. Would you think that many walled fields would work in the 17th c in either Scotland or Ireland?
I have bunches of questions about hedges but will save for another day :)
Yes, there would have been pens and shelters - wool was a major source of wealth in the 16th - 18th century. The red cushions of the House of Lords are still stuffed with the stuff. You need pens for shearing and some shelter for lambing. In the highlands, the summer grazing would be the higher pastures, and in the winters/spring lambing period you use the valleys/glens with some shelter to supplement feed. I run 87 ewes on our farm.
The older native breeds of the 16th -18th century lambed a lot easier than the cross breeds of today where the demand for fat lambs has increased the birth size/weight and the need for human intervention.
My God we are now into livestock husbandry. Apologies to all dedicated wargamers.
Quote from: Sunray on 08 February 2016, 09:02:42 AM
Yes, there would have been pens and shelters - wool was a major source of wealth in the 16th - 18th century. The red cushions of the House of Lords are still stuffed with the stuff. You need pens for shearing and some shelter for lambing. In the highlands, the summer grazing would be the higher pastures, and in the winters/spring lambing period you use the valleys/glens with some shelter to supplement feed. I run 87 ewes on our farm.
The older native breeds of the 16th -18th century lambed a lot easier than the cross breeds of today where the demand for fat lambs has increased the birth size/weight and the need for human intervention.
My God we are now into livestock husbandry. Apologies to all dedicated wargamers.
On the other hand, I never appreciated the Bocage of Normandy until I visited it in 1984 and got a tactical briefing on how the Germans used it. Its so much more than the conventional hedge at the bottom of your garden.
The 'Park' was the piece of ground nearest the big house, often laid out more to please the eye than from any considerations of agriculture, there would be animals grazing in the park, probably sheep. The Park wall would be high enough - in a big house - to keep the stock in and prying eyes out so probably 6' anyway and always of stone. At Prestonpans the unfortunate Colonel Gardiner (Hanoverian) found himself fighting an engagement next to his own house, contemporary accounts relate how the park walls constituted a considerable impediment to movement. Gardiner was killed a few hundred yards from his own policy trying to rally his dragoons.
Quote from: Sunray on 08 February 2016, 09:02:42 AM
My God we are now into livestock husbandry. Apologies to all dedicated wargamers.
:)
Pierre-the-shy started this thread with a lot of great questions. He made the point that he is far away. For many of us that don't have "boots on the ground" so to speak, all the detail we can get is useful (as you mentioned about the bocage). It's good to know why such structures existed, how they were used and when they were built. I'm finding all the information by multiple posters interesting. I think of myself as a dedicated wargamer (albeit an eccentric one!) :)
Quote from: d_Guy link=topic=13591.msg191051#msg191051 date=1454941430
(albeit an eccentric one!) :)
/quote]
He's fitting right in! ;)
This is a photo of Tranent Church wall, the side that faced the Hanoverian artillery fire and where the first casualties of the '45 occurred.
(http://www.michaelscott.name/10mm/forum/terrain/Tranent-Wall-01.jpg)
The mortally wounded Colonel Gardiner was brought here to the church after the battle.
The village of Tranent and the church (the wall in the photo is the side facing the battlefield) can be seen in this model:
(https://banktonhouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/bankton-model.jpg)
The height of the wall of Bankton House can be seen here:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Historic_Bankton_House_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1579784.jpg)
Cool shots!
Thanks for all the info...that shot of the model Prestonpans battlefield answers a lot of questions :)
An image of a well set up wargames table with the correct scenics and figures is worth 1,000 words in the thread.
Well done wee wars. ;)
Quote from: Sunray on 08 February 2016, 07:33:00 PM
An image of a well set up wargames table with the correct scenics and figures is worth 1,000 words in the thread.
10 out of 10!
Thanks also WeeWars!
For me there is no such thing as too many picture.
Wonderful looking display.
Definitely !!
Cheers - Phil