Can the highlanders in the 18th C range be suitable for Jacobites 1680/90?
I presume the Jacobite Irish could be represented by LOA range.....
Apologies for the stupid question. I am stupid and stupid questions are the norm for me. New period to me!!!!
From an extensive perusal (well a quick flick through) of the Jacobite 1689 to 1745 osprey - then probably yes.
The early period has more bare legs - the Pendraken humbly with locabar axe seems modelled off the picture in the osprey.
Some buff leather jackets - could be a paint scheme conversion.
Bigger sleeves and jackets - some of the jacobite figures have fairly tight short jackets - but a fair few of these are under tartan, or behind shields.
I think once painted and based up, they are likely to work for the earlier period too. I'm tempted to use mine for another 50 years earlier too...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U8UghgIY8nk/VTbG-5t5b9I/AAAAAAAAEjg/jgF-5beDAGs/s1152-Ic42/FullSizeRender.jpg)
LoA stuff should work great too - one of the Osprey pictures of a soldier from Earl of Angus regiment 1689 looks spot on for a LoA musketeer
I added a couple of Scots musketeers from the ECW range into mine as well
Cheers
Ian
Quote from: fred. on 21 January 2016, 08:37:43 PM
From an extensive perusal (well a quick flick through) of the Jacobite 1689 to 1745 osprey - then probably yes.
The early period has more bare legs - the Pendraken humbly with locabar axe seems modelled off the picture in the osprey.
Some buff leather jackets - could be a paint scheme conversion.
Bigger sleeves and jackets - some of the jacobite figures have fairly tight short jackets - but a fair few of these are under tartan, or behind shields.
I think once painted and based up, they are likely to work for the earlier period too. I'm tempted to use mine for another 50 years earlier too...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U8UghgIY8nk/VTbG-5t5b9I/AAAAAAAAEjg/jgF-5beDAGs/s1152-Ic42/FullSizeRender.jpg)
Lovely! Brings a tear to the eye! :)
LoA stuff should work great too - one of the Osprey pictures of a soldier from Earl of Angus regiment 1689 looks spot on for a LoA musketeer
Quote from: fred. on 21 January 2016, 08:37:43 PM
I'm tempted to use mine for another 50 years earlier too...
I'm not only tempted but do! :)
I also use a far number of AS5 (dark age peasent levy) to represent the poorly armed clan levy (the rear ranks at Culloden).
Additionally I've put EC1 and EC16 (pikes) in kilts and plaids with green stuff and these along with musketeers can represent Fencibles in the 1640s. And if that isn't enough i use a hole punch to make targets that get suck on the backs of random figures.
IIRC in 1745 there were more tartan coats (cut on the bias) and, as Fred says, fewer bare legs (and feet). Other than that I think the dress and weapons are sufficiently similar.
I pretty much only do 1638-1690 and remain rather stupid about it so you should have NO worries at all :D
Here's a pic of an assortment of highland stuff:
(https://inredcoatragsattired.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/hiighland-clan-army-all-factions.jpg)
Oops! Sorry! I forgot to resize the photo :(
Very nice looking stuff there lads 8)
Since we're talking about painting jacobites do you use any "uniform" tartan patterns when painting up individual highland clan units? My understanding is that so called "clan" tartans did not come about till the 19th century so there should not be too much of the same tartan in any jacobite highland unit. Is that correct as far as you know?
Lastly can you point out any suitable bagpiper figures that pendraken produce?
Cheers
Quote from: pierre the shy on 22 January 2016, 02:18:36 AM
Very nice looking stuff there lads 8)
Since we're talking about painting jacobites do you use any "uniform" tartan patterns when painting up individual highland clan units? My understanding is that so called "clan" tartans did not come about till the 19th century so there should not be too much of the same tartan in any jacobite highland unit. Is that correct as far as you know?
Lastly can you point out any suitable bagpiper figures that pendraken produce?
Cheers
My understanding is that the clans would have no single pattern but the weavers in the regions would use colours that would be similar - locally available dye. The differences were regional rather than clan based as each weaver would likely have had set patterns.
Cheers
Ian
First the piper figure. The command set ER26 includes what I think is a suitable piper (ER24 also has a piper but would probably need green stuff to transform the Elizabeathian slashed breeches to a kilt and plaid). Both of these have two drones which MAY fit 1640-1690 better (although this can start a huge argument elsewhere). While most of my figures were created by our hosts I do use other's work mixed in for variety.
Regarding standardized tartan, my understanding is much as Ian's. Probably more regional AND might vary in color and pattern from year to year. A random mix is probably much more likely even for the same clan or warband. Most of my knowledge comes from reading John Prebble's "The King's Jaunt" which tells much about the "recovery" of highland dress for the king's visit to Scotland in 1822.
d_Guy
Excellent work there D_Guy 8).
For those interested in the '45 there is now a document on the Honours of War site for amendments to make it work for the '45.
This might be useful too! ;)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tartan-Paint-1l-Royal-Stewart/dp/B00FWO1O72
Quote from: Steve J on 22 January 2016, 07:58:30 AM
Excellent work there D_Guy 8).
Seconded !
Cheers - Phil
Nice figures and like the battle scene, d-Guy. Very effective in encapsulating the rough terrain of the Scottish Highlands (oh and by the way, nice blog - been meaning to compliment you on this for some time now!). :-bd
P.S. Hope you don't mind me passing on some helpful info about how two of the clan names are spelled back here in the old world. MacClean should be McLean (pronounced MacLane) and MacCloud should be McLeod (see Clan links)
http://www.clan-macleod-scotland.org.uk/clan-history (http://www.clan-macleod-scotland.org.uk/clan-history)
http://www.maclean.org/index.php (http://www.maclean.org/index.php)
[I'll get my coat]
OK thanks for all the replies - love the idea about adding targets d_Guy.
I'm looking at using V&B wing scale rules since we use them with Paul's AWI stuff already - they work really well and the author has produced a couple of Jacobite supplements that I'm getting hold of first.
I'd be interested in actions from 1689, 1715 and 1745 campaigns (as well as doing Montrose's 1644/5 lot ONE day) so as people have pointed out plenty of potentially useful figures in earlier PM ranges as well to give a irregular look to the highland clan units. :-bd
Unfortunately Amazon won't deliver paint to NZ Lemmey - even empty tins :o
Quote from: mad lemmey on 22 January 2016, 09:21:11 AM
This might be useful too! ;)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tartan-Paint-1l-Royal-Stewart/dp/B00FWO1O72
;D ;D ;D
Amazon says they won't this to the USA either - yet the discription says it is an empty tin :o
I expect one of the excuses would be that that the tin might 'pop' if it went by airmail.
Cheers - Phil
First, thanks all for the complements!
Quote from: Westmarcher on 22 January 2016, 09:58:23 AM
P.S. Hope you don't mind me passing on some helpful info about how two of the clan names are spelled back here in the old world. MacClean should be McLean (pronounced MacLane) and MacCloud should be McLeod (see Clan links)
http://www.clan-macleod-scotland.org.uk/clan-history (http://www.clan-macleod-scotland.org.uk/clan-history)
http://www.maclean.org/index.php (http://www.maclean.org/index.php)
[I'll get my coat]
Westie, I don't mind at all! I should actually know better! I'll correct my list on the blog - thanks.
The really embarrassing part is I played in a pipe band for a good little while that wore Macleod of Lewis!
Pierre, I'm doing Montrose now and may eventually work out to the '45 - meet you in the middle somewhere :)
Hawaii?
;D
Very droll, Leman. What a Pearl. :P
Quote from: d_Guy on 22 January 2016, 04:09:49 PM
Westie, I don't mind at all! I should actually know better! I'll correct my list on the blog - thanks.
The really embarrassing part is I played in a pipe band for a good little while that wore Macleod of Lewis!
Nice of you to say so, Guy. When I saw your blog, I could see how seriously you were interested in that whole era, so I mentioned it with the best of intentions. Anyway, I can talk - as you will see from the links, the preferred (official?) way of spelling by the Clans themselves is with 'Mac' and not 'Mc" as I had stated! D'oh! #-o
Quote from: Leman on 22 January 2016, 04:46:50 PM
Hawaii?
If this is in reference to the pipe band - it was here in West Virginia. Looked at Hawaii pipeband and they appear to wear the dark MacLeod (Harris), we wore the bright yellow Lewis.
If this wasn't the reference then - I am fine! Hawaii!? :D
Pierre the Shy & I live in New Zealand, so half way between there and West Virginia is ...
Quote from: paulr on 22 January 2016, 05:46:20 PM
Pierre the Shy & I live in New Zealand, so half way between there and West Virginia is ...
Uh ----- Hawaii?? :-\
That's a hell of a commute if you guys ever want a game! 8)
Westie,
Scrooge Mcduck uses the "mc" ( as does "McCloud" for that matter!) so it is all good!
I must have been having a Dennis Weaver flashback :)
I started by using the Clan names in Galeic but that quickly became baffling beyond all reason!
Incidentally the MacDonalds of Glengarry seem to prefer "MacDonnell" but since I have MacDonnells (and O'Donnells) in my Irish
forces I keep them consistent with the rest!
I appreciate all the help I can get - so thanks again!
Hawaii - superb location for a bit of wargaming, followed by hanging ten, then bonfire, marshmallows and tequila on the beach ( or some other preferred Hawaiian drink that probably features pineapple - eugh!).
Some music to play along to
Killiekrankie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1sDd0GjMm0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1sDd0GjMm0)
Sheriff Muir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TkQkyXV-M4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TkQkyXV-M4)
Prestonpans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcZ4uMmF0vw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcZ4uMmF0vw)
Cheers
Ian
Gotta love The Corries.
Ye Jacobites By Name
Alastair McDonald did a great album called Bonnie Prince Charlie, which ends on a great song Drumossie Moor a nice change to the usual over romanticised songs
Cheers
Ian
Quote from: Leman on 22 January 2016, 08:20:53 PM
Hawaii - superb location for a bit of wargaming, followed by hanging ten, then bonfire, marshmallows and tequila on the beach ( or some other preferred Hawaiian drink that probably features pineapple - eugh!).
Well I'd consider it - particlarly if Milord Oik can be enticed to write a saga about! (Or perhaps even preform an interpretive dance?) :)
Mc is usually derived from Irish gaelic and Mac Scottish gaelic, and the Mackenzies of Seaforth are my home area clan, great clan for switching sides and not turning up when they said they would!! My grandfathers mothers folk were Mackenzies and his side are Ross, loads of them up here where I live!! I have been to Culloden Moor a good few times, not overly far from me,very bleak and depressing place, but interesting and worth a visit if you are up in the area. :)
Interpretive dance was always Techno's forte!
I used to work in Seaforth. It's on the edge of Liverpool between Bootle and Waterloo.
Quote from: Leman on 23 January 2016, 05:04:49 PM
I used to work in Seaforth. It's on the edge of Liverpool between Bootle and Waterloo.
I get Seaforth and Seaworth mixed up!