Hi all,
I'm looking for ball bearings to use in sculpting as rivets. I can find lots of 1mm+ bearings for cheap, but they might be a bit too big. I need something of the 0.5mm or perhaps 0.8 (1/32 inch) variety . The 1mm+ are most commonly stainless steel. Under 1mm they often seem to be chromium hardened steel, which I am sure has a good reason behind it, but they are massively more expensive, too expensive in fact to be practical. Each sculpt requires about 50 of them.
So I figured someone here would know about bearings through their work or other technical knowledge, or had used them before in modelling. Is there such a thing as plain steel bearings or bearings of any material under 1mm that won't break the bank.
Cheers in advance.
Why? What are you making?
Ball headed pins and wire-cutter (or similar) any good?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500PCs-Ball-Pins-Head-Pins-Findings-Gunmetal-20mmx0-5mm-24-Gauge-/130915154965?hash=item1e7b26bc15:g:PcYAAOSwg3FUo8al
That's a lot more reasonable, price wise, if they're suitable.
Excellent idea 'I'.
Cheers - Phil
Those are nice and cheap, but my guess is the heads are way too big, plus they'd need anchor holes drilled which would be time consuming. I've already tried that, and while it looks nice its too time intensive to be practical.
This is not my work, but this is the effect I am looking for;
(http://ww4.sinaimg.cn/mw690/738d5a22gw1exqb4mhd1lj21w01w042a.jpg)
Hello Clibinarium
I've had good results from Archer resin rivets (decals). Mind you I've only ever used them with RTV moulds, can't report on how they deal with normal vulcanisation.:-
(http://www.archertransfers.com/ASSETS/AR88pictures/AR88120.gif)
(http://www.archertransfers.com/ASSETS/AR88pictures/AR88097.gif)
The Manufacturers page (N scale down the page):-
http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsMain.html (http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsMain.html)
I'm sure you could find local suppliers if needed.
Cheers
GrumpyOldman
You can get ballhead jewellery pins . The wife says they are dirt cheap from various sites
Like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-300PCS-Jewelry-Design-Repair-SILVER-PLATED-BALL-PINS-HEAD-PINS-Finding-20MM-/361445954437
Poppy seed?
Shrink Ray?
Fierce Kitty started it sir.
OK then - how about:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/100cr6-52100-suj2-steel-balls-0_1476129222.html?s=p (http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/100cr6-52100-suj2-steel-balls-0_1476129222.html?s=p)
10kg minimum at roughly a dollar-fifty a kilo. I'm guessing that a) postage will be more than the cost of the ball bearings b) you will have several lifetimes supply of them :)
Hello clibinarium again
Another thought is lead solder balls, they come in sizes down to .25 and .3 mm,
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFg5MDA=/z/HToAAOSwv0tVCtxm/$_57.JPG)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-30mm-Leaded-Solder-Balls-25K-/261815251747 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-30mm-Leaded-Solder-Balls-25K-/261815251747)
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
You can get a plastic rivet maker, that is rather like a hole pumch, but for scale modellers. Can't remember who makes it though for the life of me...
Quote from: Steve J on 14 December 2015, 08:27:48 AM
You can get a plastic rivet maker, that is rather like a hole pumch, but for scale modellers. Can't remember who makes it though for the life of me...
Trumpeter
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trumpeter-TSM-9910-Rivet-Maker/dp/B001JJZ2FE
That's not the one I'm thinking of Ithoriel. The one shown looks like a wheel that gives indentations into flat sheet. The one I remember stamps out individual rivets that can then be glued on. Will check with a friend tomorrow when back at work.
Micro-Mark (www.micromark.com) in th eUS has HO and O scale raised rivet decals. Go to their website and type in rivets in the search box.
On the Resin decals; I doubt they'd survive vulcanization, but I am impressed that they exist at all, its a very clever idea.
The rivet maker; could potentially be useful, but it has the same limitations as punching them by hand as they won't sit above the punched surface. I can see it being useful for other applications though.
The bearings on alibaba; actually came across those the other day, but the quantity and the postage would be overkill for something I just want to try out.
I think the solder balls are the best bet; they come in tiny sizes, large amounts and are cheap. I just need to check if they are likely to stay solid during vulcanization; I've never used solder in sculpting, but I think other people do and its stable? I might check with Leon and Dave.
Cheers for all the suggestions.
I've never had a problem with any soldered parts of a 'master' coming apart whilst in a press, Clib.
From what I understand, the solder that I occasionally use has a melting point of around 188 degrees C.
I don't know what temp the rubber gets up to in a press during the process...but I doubt that it's anywhere as high as 188C.
Having said that......The soldered parts have always been 'protected' by a layer of putty to hide the join.
Dave should certainly be able to advise, I'm sure.
Not absolutely certain what would happen with tiny bits of solder on the surface of a model.
Cheers - Phil
Yeah Phil, I've had exactly the same thoughts; it ought to be OK, but there's a lingering doubt in my head.
I'm 95% certain it would be OK, Clib.......BUT.......It would be more than 'tragic' if it didn't, for the amount of work involved.
How soon do you need to know ?
I was going to suggest I send Dave the smallest 'blob' of solder I can 'manufacture', and see what happens to that in the Vulcanising Press, if that's any help ?
Cheers - Phil
Just a thought here... How about cracking open some shotgun shells? The shot comes in different sizes and (at least in the Netherlands) they are no longer allowed to contain any lead but have to be iron...
Maybe if you know any hunters you could ask them?
Cheers,
Rob
That's a damn good idea, Rob.
I know of one member of the forum who might be able to help (or advise) on that score.
Cheers - Phil
It seems the smallest shotgun pellet diameter is 1.27 mm, probably a bit too large for this.
Cheers,
Aksu
This Chinese ebay seller offers free postage. 0.8 mm, 5 quid for 50 bearings.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50pcs-Si3N4-Ceramic-Silicon-Nitride-Si3N4-Bearing-Balls-GRADE-5-G5-0-8-18-256mm-/291465530871?var=&hash=item43dcb30df7:m:m5dywxQUVdEqprdL9L-VC9A
Cheers,
Aksu
Quote from: Aksu on 15 December 2015, 07:45:11 AM
It seems the smallest shotgun pellet diameter is 1.27 mm, probably a bit too large for this. Cheers, Aksu
There's
apparently something called 'dust' that might be a smaller diameter ? :-\
How consistent the size would be, is another matter , though.
I'll e'mail Mr 'X'.......Or ask one of the local farmers.
Another damn good find, just above, Aksu. :)
We're giving Clib a few options......I hope !
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 15 December 2015, 07:31:29 AM
That's a damn good idea, Rob.
We aim to please! ;)
Cheers,
Rob
That's 'cos our gang is the best ! ;)
Cheers - Phil
The vulcaniser runs at 150 degrees for a regular mould, but we can knock that down a bit if necessary.
8)
Would a lower temp reduce definition ?
Quote from: ianrs54 on 17 December 2015, 07:16:47 AM
Would a lower temp reduce definition ?
Nope, you just need to tweak the duration and pressure involved, as well as the silicon in some cases.
Have you thought about using lead shot. Go to http://www.theleadweightcompany.co.uk/lead-shot-ballast.html. The smallest is 0.3mm.
Refound this by accident. I want to know what happened.
When I was aI was a kid in the 50s/60s we used to call them bollies and used them just like marbles.
I thought about shotgun pellets as well and you can buy them in bags (rather large bags for this application so cracking a she'll probably best.). Dust shot (varmit shot) at smallest runs at right at 1mm diameter, so too big I think.
I had forgotten about this thread. It worked- kinda. I got some very small bearings which were too big and were quickly abandoned. Then I managed to get some smaller solder balls and they worked ok, but were just too big as well. Didn't try anything smaller as the solder balls were very difficult to handle; too small to pick up with any sort of grip, they had to be pressed with a fingertip to stick for a few seconds and then had to be shepherded around the putty to then press in. Lots were dropped 9though the vial said there were ten thousand it it so I was not going to run out. Ultimately it was a lot of work. I've decided to go to digital sculpting and printing to do this project, so a whole new approach has to be learned.
Below are some abandoned sculpts with the results of the solder balls (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/02zwAAscwd2_g78ZOq9378Q6ODAlgeDDyJ5xkKNRJJHjcUNcPCicRsf_DjqtUt9hAcwqaJT3S8OwS0wDQy_7KMBYUSjnvtsmv2zgdJ_VD9p0hgmXWp-9PzaLNvulmuCw9YuBrKXsBTO39w28iHvOPoEN3rMDMLJN-uMEV06YOaRGirU_imafj9cALqhJqyM0wuzMlNuFymemHkbtsojG68LELspZEpwB6e7WRanmL3vilwmlireU4l8I9iSV8HdMoEvttWpIR6w7_-qT_voLyiOJDBh711hDZL7xw3d9T_mxFvFkaIccfectGDCdggPZsoYycwWWQzc2jGdAhjeesmfXexmrhQWWZYq_LXLX_6agX9LxoSunqzlT6WgO4G5CG870ZI61WsHlYyKk1NwZFyBjMCT59DKQiQoI1QUIsRrusSkYEGFhERQJEvzrk6bcQX3BBIkoR6CvN507F4tvKPURS0dQgcmdbNOeOuN4G00FuxxMwvaTuAi8ysaptDxxrC5Uotl89ngjcgTaQHwaYK662ibey4MIuSDFcXrTWB8mbXwem0jEL_UPdUIkVIeLROws0WPwgjYCvpBayV5QUC3oljy_2f_4aEMUwuidECKQRuEcjd9HWSUdBNzU_JZNWodbRLki7YLPFrLpMo-2Ml0Os0QrDvhn=w1166-h640-no)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8k3Zr7adtGYiop3Q2
Quote from: clibinarium on 25 April 2018, 03:21:52 PM
I had forgotten about this thread. It worked- kinda. I got some very small bearings which were too big and were quickly abandoned. Then I managed to get some smaller solder balls and they worked ok, but were just too big as well. Didn't try anything smaller as the solder balls were very difficult to handle; too small to pick up with any sort of grip, they had to be pressed with a fingertip to stick for a few seconds and then had to be shepherded around the putty to then press in. Lots were dropped 9though the vial said there were ten thousand it it so I was not going to run out. Ultimately it was a lot of work. I've decided to go to digital sculpting and printing to do this project, so a whole new approach has to be learned.
Below are some abandoned sculpts with the results of the solder balls (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/02zwAAscwd2_g78ZOq9378Q6ODAlgeDDyJ5xkKNRJJHjcUNcPCicRsf_DjqtUt9hAcwqaJT3S8OwS0wDQy_7KMBYUSjnvtsmv2zgdJ_VD9p0hgmXWp-9PzaLNvulmuCw9YuBrKXsBTO39w28iHvOPoEN3rMDMLJN-uMEV06YOaRGirU_imafj9cALqhJqyM0wuzMlNuFymemHkbtsojG68LELspZEpwB6e7WRanmL3vilwmlireU4l8I9iSV8HdMoEvttWpIR6w7_-qT_voLyiOJDBh711hDZL7xw3d9T_mxFvFkaIccfectGDCdggPZsoYycwWWQzc2jGdAhjeesmfXexmrhQWWZYq_LXLX_6agX9LxoSunqzlT6WgO4G5CG870ZI61WsHlYyKk1NwZFyBjMCT59DKQiQoI1QUIsRrusSkYEGFhERQJEvzrk6bcQX3BBIkoR6CvN507F4tvKPURS0dQgcmdbNOeOuN4G00FuxxMwvaTuAi8ysaptDxxrC5Uotl89ngjcgTaQHwaYK662ibey4MIuSDFcXrTWB8mbXwem0jEL_UPdUIkVIeLROws0WPwgjYCvpBayV5QUC3oljy_2f_4aEMUwuidECKQRuEcjd9HWSUdBNzU_JZNWodbRLki7YLPFrLpMo-2Ml0Os0QrDvhn=w1166-h640-no)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8k3Zr7adtGYiop3Q2
It's a shame that it was such a pain, they look really effective.
What you need is something like a syringe (or plastic Pasteur pipette) with an aperture slightly smaller than the pellets: suck them onto the needle, push them into place then release the pressure :-\
What diameter are the pellets?
Label says "0.76" , no units but presumably mm.