Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Releases, Requests and Photos! => Photos => Late 19th C./Colonial Photos => Topic started by: kipt on 27 November 2015, 07:40:41 PM

Title: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: kipt on 27 November 2015, 07:40:41 PM
I am getting to the XXII and XXIII French Corps and the XXIII has 3 batteries of mountain artillery.  Anybody know what they look like?

Mountain artillery is listed in the South Pacific Wars section (SAP 16), the Zulu Wars (ZC 7) and the North West Frontier (NW 11).  Any of these guns fit?  Any pictures of these models?

Also in the XXIII Corps is a battery of 8# guns.  Again, any ideas/pictures?
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 27 November 2015, 08:04:34 PM
My sources are unclear. Sorry.  Suspect the ubiquitous 4lber will double up until Cameronian, Le Manchu or Mollinary tell us otherwise! 🇫🇷
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: mollinary on 27 November 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Well, a quick google turned up a wikipedia entry, curiously under Muzzle loading rifle, a picture of the French M1858 4pdr rifled mountain gun.
Not sure any of the current models fit it, as it looks miuch smaller and shorter than the standard 4 pdr, and with a much narrower carriage.

Mollinary
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Bernie on 27 November 2015, 09:42:58 PM
Mountains guns in Spanish Civil War Range are nice little pieces that might do
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Le Manchou on 27 November 2015, 10:48:16 PM

The first picture shows mountain artillery in 1855 in Algeria,

http://www.fortsteynard.com/artillerie.htm

LM
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: kipt on 27 November 2015, 11:11:52 PM
It looks like a 6mm ACW Napoleon 12# might work.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 28 November 2015, 08:18:38 AM
Knew the gentleman of this forum would come up trumps!
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Chad on 28 November 2015, 08:36:25 AM
Have an illustration from Detaille of the guns carried on the back of miles in 1846 if it would be of any help
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Chad on 28 November 2015, 09:31:35 AM
For miles read mules. Might give you an idea as to size
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Chad on 28 November 2015, 10:20:24 AM
Detaille image
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Ace of Spades on 28 November 2015, 02:09:12 PM
Maybe the British 'screw gun' from the North-West Frontier range will do with a shortened barrel and slightly reworked chamber? They come as complete mule teams too!

Cheers,
Rob
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Leman on 28 November 2015, 03:33:20 PM
I like the idea of using the 6mm ACW Napoleon.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: paulr on 29 November 2015, 03:37:42 AM
Quote from: Ace of Spades on 28 November 2015, 02:09:12 PM
Maybe the British 'screw gun' from the North-West Frontier range will do with a shortened barrel and slightly reworked chamber? They come as complete mule teams too!

Cheers,
Rob

I've just posted some pictures of the mule teams here  http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12440.msg183925.html#msg183925 (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12440.msg183925.html#msg183925)
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: kipt on 29 November 2015, 04:05:27 AM
The mules look good but I want a deployed gun(s).  Does the gun come that way also?

Also looking for my 6mm ACW troops to see how the Napoleon will look.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Ace of Spades on 29 November 2015, 01:47:54 PM
Quote from: kipt on 29 November 2015, 04:05:27 AM
The mules look good but I want a deployed gun(s).  Does the gun come that way also?

Yes it does luckily! You can see pictures of the gun in the Colonial range, North West Frontier:NW9, and Zulu war:ZC7.
I have some 6mm ACW stuff too and personally I wouldn't use them. The carriage might be acceptable in overall size but is really flimsy in comparisson to the 10mm fgures, not to mention the gun barrels. The average 10mm rifle is bigger than the average 6mm gun barrel I fear...

Cheers,
Rob
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: mollinary on 01 December 2015, 05:41:13 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Canon_de_montagne_de_4_modele_1859_Le_Petulant.jpg)

Will this work? The world holds it's breath!

Mollinary
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Leman on 01 December 2015, 07:06:49 PM
No, it would seem.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: kipt on 01 December 2015, 07:36:03 PM
While waiting for the Pendraken guns I have put an unpainted 6mm gun on a stand of my French (it's an HQ stand but just to get the scale). I'll try and get a picture of that up tonight so y'all can pass judgement.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Leon on 01 December 2015, 07:37:41 PM
All fixed now, it was just a glitch with the _ symbols in the image address.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Chris Pringle on 01 December 2015, 07:41:54 PM
Is it just the rifling, or did it really fire hexagonal rounds?

Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.co.uk/
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: pierre the shy on 01 December 2015, 07:46:52 PM
Now Paul has finished the gun crews I can finish
basing up my Ww l artillery, including the 10 pdr mountain battery

i'll post some pictures once done if that any help.

Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: mollinary on 01 December 2015, 08:04:16 PM
Quote from: Chris Pringle on 01 December 2015, 07:41:54 PM
Is it just the rifling, or did it really fire hexagonal rounds?

Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.co.uk/

It is just the rifling, they fired the standard La Hitte System studded rounds. Incidentally, in 1859, this ammuntion for all 4pdrs had notoriously bad fuses, and often failed to explode. A clear illustration of this failing can be found in modern day Montebello, where I counted at least three of these four pounder studded rounds from 1859 which had been cemented sideways by the locals into thier house walls!

Mollinary
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Leman on 02 December 2015, 08:08:29 AM
There it is. My, it does look dinky.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: cameronian on 02 December 2015, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: mollinary on 01 December 2015, 08:04:16 PM
It is just the rifling, they fired the standard La Hitte System studded rounds. Incidentally, in 1859, this ammuntion for all 4pdrs had notoriously bad fuses, and often failed to explode. A clear illustration of this failing can be found in modern day Montebello, where I counted at least three of these four pounder studded rounds from 1859 which had been cemented sideways by the locals into thier house walls!

Mollinary

That's interesting Mollers, I thought they were using a percussion round in 1859, then changed to 5 or 6 setting (can't remember which) air burst, then down to 2 settings for 1870 (Imperial) then changed back again in late 1870/71 (republican) to percussion. Talking of rounds in the wall, do you remember the station at Skalitz  :o
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Ace of Spades on 02 December 2015, 01:51:44 PM
Quote from: cameronian on 02 December 2015, 12:52:52 PM
Talking of rounds in the wall, do you remember the station at Skalitz  :o

Or the 'Maison de la dernière cartouche' in Bazeille near Sedan!

Cheers,
Rob
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: mollinary on 02 December 2015, 06:10:50 PM
Quote from: cameronian on 02 December 2015, 12:52:52 PM
That's interesting Mollers, I thought they were using a percussion round in 1859, then changed to 5 or 6 setting (can't remember which) air burst, then down to 2 settings for 1870 (Imperial) then changed back again in late 1870/71 (republican) to percussion. Talking of rounds in the wall, do you remember the station at Skalitz  :o

Well, the Sainted Bruce in "1859" says, on p66, para 8 "The "4pdr" M1858 gun fired a 8.82lb (4kg) conical explosive shell, with a timed fuze that could be set for four burst points between 500 and 1200m.  This fuze was less than reliable, however, resulting in the projectile often acting as a solid shot".  Whatever fuze it was, timed or percussion, the point is it often didn't explode which allowed fhe citizens of
Montebello to use them as wall decorations!   Yes, I do indeed recall Skalitz station!

Mollinary
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: cameronian on 03 December 2015, 08:33:28 AM
Ah was it four settings, I couldn't remember. Now why do I think they used a percussion fuze in the beginning, can't remember that either. The air burst shell was supposed to explode on impact assuming it hadn't already exploded in mid flight but apparently it usually didn't, functioning as you say like an expensive round shot. Grof reckoned that 30% of the Austrian common shell fired in 1866 failed to explode too.
Just thinking, did they dig the shells out of the wall, remove the explosive and then re-insert them, or did they go to bed every night wondering ... now or when ?
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: cameronian on 03 December 2015, 08:53:32 AM
Rifled mountain cannon "Canon de montagne de 4 rayé modèle 1859". Caliber: 86 mm. Length: 0.82 m. Weight: 102 kg. Ammunition: 4 kg shell. Captured in Marrakech (Morocco) in 1912.

Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: mollinary on 03 December 2015, 12:19:52 PM
That's the one, same barrel as the photo in my post above. Re the shells in Montebello, I don't think they necessarily hit the buildings at all. I reckon they were all stuck up there later as decoration, as they are embedded sideways!  I presume this is to show off the studs and the shape of the shell.

Mollinary
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Westmarcher on 03 December 2015, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: cameronian on 03 December 2015, 08:33:28 AM
Ah was it four settings, I couldn't remember. Now why do I think they used a percussion fuze in the beginning, can't remember that either. The air burst shell was supposed to explode on impact assuming it hadn't already exploded in mid flight but apparently it usually didn't, functioning as you say like an expensive round shot. Grof reckoned that 30% of the Austrian common shell fired in 1866 failed to explode too.
Just thinking, did they dig the shells out of the wall, remove the explosive and then re-insert them, or did they go to bed every night wondering ... now or when ?

Scary.

"OK [turns to wife]. Where do you want me to hang this picture ............?" *

*Only. In Italian.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: kipt on 06 December 2015, 02:10:57 AM
I have 3 photos of a 6mm Adler Napoleon gun on one of my HQ stands.  It gives a relative size to foot and horse.  Since there are too big for me to attach I will send to Leon and hopefully he can attach them for me.

I think the gun fits well, but I don't have the mountain guns yet to check differences.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: kipt on 06 December 2015, 06:25:02 AM
I need to add another post so the 3rd picture can be added.  Here goes for number 3.

Thanks Leon!
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Techno on 06 December 2015, 06:56:38 AM
Lovely job on those, K.
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: kipt on 05 January 2016, 04:35:49 PM
I received the Zulu Wars mountain guns and the NW Frontier pack horses with guns. The NW code doesn't have separate guns but I can use the led horses. The Zulu Wars gun has a long barrel which perhaps I can cut down. Once I do I will post comparison pictures.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Leman on 05 January 2016, 07:24:50 PM
Figures looking very good.
Title: Re: Mountain artillery for the Franco Prussian War
Post by: Womble67 on 05 January 2016, 10:53:04 PM
Very nice indeed

Take care

Andy