Seizing as I seem to have caught the scenic bug and I'm sure even my meagre abilities are up to making some hills to go under a terrain cloth, I'm after some advice as to size and materials. I know I could use books or bundled up rags, but having something in the terrain box might be a little more practical in the long run.
So, where should I start?
- Neil.
I use some blue insulation foam, cut into various sizes of ovals. Its about 8-10mm thick, and I've made various sizes of ovals that can be stacked on top of each other, which when covered with a cloth seem to work as hills. I also have some bigger bits of fairly high density white polystyrene to help with bigger areas of high ground.
I find that most wargames hills are too low, and tend to cover too small an area. Height is important, it lets cavalry hide behind them.
Being able to raise up large areas is good, as this mimics real terrain a lot more than isolated hills.
I use polystyrene tiles (yes, I saw the practical wargaming use for them -before they came unfashionable and quite dangerous when heat is added to the equation- and kept a carrier bag full of whole tiles and bits of tiles), plus other bits of polystyrene packaging. PVA'd to thin MDF bases with chamfered edges and covered with masking tape, then PVA/sand and painted. More info on my blog here:
http://thewordsofsubedai.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/latest-terrain-projects.html
Mine are plywood. Simple and practical. If they were made to a realistic vertical figure scale, the hlouse wouldn't be big enough to contain them.
Fiercekitty - What thickness of plywood?
Everyone - what average size do you go for?
And thanks all for the advice so far, appreciated.
- Neil.
About 8 mm. They're frankly conventional rather than realistic.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 24 October 2015, 10:14:56 PM
About 8 mm. They're frankly conventional rather than realistic.
Thanks. That gives me something to start with. A couple of bits of 8mm something will tell me if they give me a look I lik. I can then work from there.
- Neil.
What works for me might not be to your taste. Check out some of my posts - there are numerous photographs showing my terrain.
I'm influenced by the consideration that elements need to stand firmly on or in features.
Quote from: NeilCFord on 24 October 2015, 09:49:21 PM
Fiercekitty - What thickness of plywood?
Everyone - what average size do you go for?
And thanks all for the advice so far, appreciated.
- Neil.
For height, using 3mm MDF plus at least two possible more levels you are looking at a minimum of 30mm and upwards from there. For footprint, it depends on the size of your playing area, mine is 5 x 4 and my hills are anything from 8" to 12" round...approximately because some are roundish but others are definitely more of an ovoid shape.
This strikes me of having an element of 'how long is a piece of string?' about it.
Quote from: Leman on 25 October 2015, 09:43:17 AM
This strikes me of having an element of 'how long is a piece of string?' about it.
More a case of dipping in to the perceived wisdom and getting some starting points. I now have some ideas of thickness of material to use and a good starting size to work from. Development can now proceed with much less trial and error.
- Neil.
Quote from: Subedai on 25 October 2015, 09:41:40 AM
... and my hills are anything from 8" to 12" round...approximately because some are roundish but others are definitely more of an ovoid shape.
I'd say mine are typically of this sort of size too.
Big enough to make a difference to the game, not so big that they take up half the table. Although sometimes I do build a plateau at one end.
With layer hills I put a fleece throw over the hills, then put the gaming mat over the top o this, this tends to smooth out steps a bit more, and help the gaming mat lie flat.
Hi Neil,
I use B&Q cork floor tiles. They are very cheap and you can cut them to shape with a large pair of scissors. The advantage I have found over other materials is weight and durability. They are bendy so do not break easily and because of the cheapness and lightness you can have as many as you like.
I paint them on one side with a very thin wash of green. If used as hills they are green side up and you can layer one on top of another in a contour like system to represent various heights. I use them also reversed to represent perimeters of built up areas and woods.
You can see them in use in these old posts:
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6728.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6728.0.html)
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3924.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3924.0.html)
Cheers, Rob
What are people's views on the Featherstone-esque 'stepped hills'?
Upside- easy to make - figures stand on them without slipping over - obvious LoS is blocked
Downside - Looks like bits of wood on top of each other and has steps.
Like this:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20SYW/IMG_1406_zps50c4cf49.jpg)
Quote from: Rob on 25 October 2015, 11:31:27 AM
Hi Neil,
I use B&Q cork floor tiles. They are very cheap and you can cut them to shape with a large pair of scissors. The advantage I have found over other materials is weight and durability. They are bendy so do not break easily and because of the cheapness and lightness you can have as many as you like.
I paint them on one side with a very thin wash of green. If used as hills they are green side up and you can layer one on top of another in a contour like system to represent various heights. I use them also reversed to represent perimeters of built up areas and woods.
You can see them in use in these old posts:
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6728.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6728.0.html)
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3924.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3924.0.html)
Cheers, Rob
I considered cork tiles, but they appear much harder to get hold of these days. B&Q don't list them on their website for example.
What ever I use will be placed under the gaming mat, so colour in immaterial.
- Neil.
Bummer :'(
Its been years since I bought them :)
THink Wicks still do them.
IanS
I have considered treating myself to a Kallistra unpainted starter set, building hills from that and putting them under the gaming mat.
I have discovered which of the local B&Qs has a cutting service, so I may just get some Plywood and go from there.
Which ever route I go, I'll be sure to document the process.
- Neil.
Depends what you make them from. Cork tiles have a tendency to have the edges broken off even with the best care, MDF -if the right depth- could work out to be very heavy and I don't know if you can get polystyrene tiles anymore (which is why I kept some). This is why I use layers of polystyrene with the edges softened by masking tape before painting.
Basic hill construction. Offcuts and bits from various thicknesses of polystyrene -acquired just in time from a local skip- were glued down with wood glue to a irregular piece of thick card and some slate pieces glued were down with Hard as Nails. The whole lot was then covered with strips of masking tape that extended under the base. The masking tape used is the cheap stuff from Poundland. Don't worry about any folds left from where the masking tape has creased, they add to the topography of the piece. I like to use the odd rock, stone or pieces of slate to add a little weight to the piece.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QlvS4-f-iA4/TT35gGv7rtI/AAAAAAAAATQ/4ZyGH3daJcw/s320/RIMG0306%2B%25283%2529.JPG)
The whole top surface was then covered with the ubiquitous sand and wood glue. Once dried, to represent earth collapse, some small pieces of unused cat litter were glued down with wood glue. For more adhesion and to fill in some of the major gaps all the litter was covered in diluted glue. Then more sand was glued down along the top of the litter for continuity.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QlvS4-f-iA4/TT35gikvdOI/AAAAAAAAATY/F9DvDZuYWyI/s320/RIMG0306%2B%25286%2529.JPG)
Both new hills together. A quick blast across the top with an unperfumed extra-hold hairspray to keep the flock on and the ball's in the net.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QlvS4-f-iA4/TT35gx1TYcI/AAAAAAAAATg/A8LRu5SxZIQ/s320/RIMG0306%2B%25289%2529.JPG)
As my hills won't be visable, I thankfully won't have to go to those lengths. Useful tutorial regardless.
- Neil.
Leman, that's the sort of thing!
Wickes do thick sheets of pink loft insulation foam that seems pretty robust. The stuff I have is thick, maybe 30-40mm, but they might do thinner sheets.
Sounds promising.
The problem is I have no idea how to sculpt it! I have some on top of the header tank as insulation, and I recall it being a bugger to cut a slot into for an overflow pipe
There's a type of dense rubber foam sheet somewhere in the world; I think it was once much used to deaden the noise of a typewriter resting on it. It was light and tough, and took paint well. No idea if it's still to be had anywhere.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 25 October 2015, 09:48:08 PM
The problem is I have no idea how to sculpt it! I have some on top of the header tank as insulation, and I recall it being a bugger to cut a slot into for an overflow pipe
Heat basically. You can get specialist foam cutters - basically a wire, a battery and a frame connecting the two - which allow you to slice bits off a block. Ventilation is a must.
I've made do with the much cheaper option of a large biology pin stuck through a champagne cork, the end of the pin being held in the flame of a gas ring on the hob and then applied to the foam. The pin rapidly loses heat so put it back into the flame and repeat as needed.
Picked up the champagne cork in a restaurant I was having lunch in, next table had been celebrating a birthday and I asked if I could have the cork as the staff cleared the table. did get some funny looks tbh.
Can get 32, 300 x 300mm 3mm thick hardboard squares (plus offcuts) from B&Q for £8. Which given I'm working on 3ft x 3ft playing area, should give me plenty to work with.
- Neil.
I had one of those heat cutters, and it had trouble with normal foam - think this stuff might have overwhelmed it!
Leman, using Kalllistra as an under-scape is what this chap did. I am guessing that to the eye the elevation is obvious but that overhead lighting here has killed the 3D look as far as the digital camera is concerned.
LINK - http://www.greatwarspearhead.com/battle-reports/battle-of-krasnik---7th/table-setup.html
Thanks for that Norm. It certainly shows up well on some of the ground level shots. It's the kind of thing I would be looking to use with my 10mm and 6mm stuff.
I am now the proud owner of 32, 30cm sq pieces of 6mm MDF, which will now for the basis of my hills project. Once I get all my outstanding basic done of course.
- Neil.
Quote from: Leman on 25 October 2015, 09:43:17 AM
This strikes me of having an element of 'how long is a piece of string?' about it.
or "How High is a Hill"
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 30 October 2015, 06:06:29 PM
or "How High is a Hill"
In my case somewhere between 12 and 24mm (2 to 4 layers).
- Neil.
Anything that has a separate peak, under 2000ft or 600m!
According to Wikipedia anyway!
Yeah .... Wiki .... what do they know?
everyone knows it's more like 12 - 24mm, with some flattish bits so things don't slide down and a smattering of flocky / sandy type stuff.
next thing you know, Wiki will be saying they are made from rock, well if that's true, what's the point of polystyrene and insulation board? :D
No point. The driving force behind the development of metallurgy is that soft materials (such as copper, not to mention polystyrene) won't keep a point or an edge long enough to be useful.
I dunno....
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/parttimehanyou/Tessaiga/sword1.jpg)
Cheers - Phil :D (Now back to the hills,)
Please tell me that's a photo you found on Google!
Please tell me that's not your bedroom! :-& :-& :-&
Quote from: fsn on 31 October 2015, 09:40:42 AM
Please tell me that's a photo you found on Google!
Yes !.....Searching for polystyrene swords. :D
Quote from: fsn on 31 October 2015, 09:40:42 AM
Please tell me that's not your bedroom! :-& :-& :-&
No.....
My bedroom usually has a mess of Labradors on the duvitt.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 31 October 2015, 11:10:51 AM
No.....My bedroom usually has a mess of Labradors on the duvitt.
That is a very appropriate collective noun for Labradors ;) :)
Quote from: Techno on 31 October 2015, 11:10:51 AM
Yes !.....Searching for polystyrene swords. :D
No.....My bedroom usually has a mess of Labradors on the duvitt.
Cheers - Phil
Thank goodness! that duvet cover!
I believe the best knives nowadays are ceramic.
Quote from: fsn on 31 October 2015, 01:10:03 PM
Thank goodness! that duvet cover!
Not my taste either, Nobby. ;D
Cheers - Phil