Like flying cars, affordable housing and a mobile phone that doesn't require a degree to use it, some things always seem just out of reach... until now! After years of torture, the Forum's most feline of members will finally get his wish as we set our sights on a new range of Aztecs!
This is going to be a slow burning project with us only expecting to squeeze one or two sculpts into each month's budget, but it's a start and we'll be making progress. Below is the initial master list that FK has helped us put together, so we're now putting it out there for your feedback and suggestions. We're also looking for any sources of reference material and pictures where possible, so that Phil's got some solid info to work from when the time comes.
1. Command - General, standard-bearer, conch trumpeter, drummer.
2. Cuachic veterans - Three poses, 2 with swords, 1 with spear/atlatl.
3. Eagles - Three poses, 2 with swords, 1 with spear/atlatl.
4. Jaguars - Three poses, 2 with swords, 1 with spear/atlatl.
5. 'Coneheads' headgear - Three poses, 2 with swords, 1 with spear/atlatl.
6. Suit-wearers (cylinders, bare heads, coyotes) - Three poses, 2 with swords, 1 with spear/atlatl.
7. Novices 1 - Two poses with sword.
8. Novices 2 - Two poses, with spears/atlatl.
9. Novice Slingers - Three poses.
10. Novice Archers - Two poses.
11. Otomi - Two poses with swords.
12. Levies without arming doublet padding - One spearman, one stone-thrower.
13. Back banners for adding to the above - 6 variants
So, let us know what you think, add anything we might be missing, and include any pics where possible. We'll pass all this onto Phil and we'll make some progress on ticking this range off the Top 10 Requests list!
8)
Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
He doesn't want much does he ;)
Had to check the date there, I thought we had time-slipped to April 1st ;)
Cheers
Ian
I RESIGN!
Slow burn suits me - I need to clear a space in the lead mountain!
Nice list.
These are Maya (I think) but there is a good selection of weaponary in use for Phil to browse.
Warning bloody scene in part!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qfsMjASwTM
:) Rob
Quote from: Sandinista on 22 October 2015, 12:03:42 AM
Had to check the date there, I thought we had time-slipped to April 1st ;)
It was about time, he's been asking about them for at least 5 years now and they've been in and around the Top 10 Requests almost since the Forum started!
The only ranges above them in the Top 10 are the Moderns and Yom Kippur which we'll be moving into next year as we start on modern infantry, War of 1812 which we'll be getting to as part of the Naps expansion, and the Indian Mutiny which we've made a brief start on and will be finishing off sometime towards the end of 2016 hopefully.
Quote from: Fenton on 22 October 2015, 12:07:08 AM
I RESIGN!
:D
Excellent.
I shall look forward to doing the duck beak masks......That should please a lot of people. ;)
(Thanks for the link to the clip, Rob.....Wasn't quite as gory as I thought it was going to be....Though I did have to find my old password... ;D ;D ;D ;D)
Cheers - Captain Beaky.
Ian - after you...
Well done chaps, nice to see customer led ranges are working. I really hope it sells well, and a good range of codes there too.
Nope, definitely not April 1st...
Cool. My only knowledge comes from the Age of Empires computer game.
But having some jungle warriors to fight against my Lizardmen will be cool.
:o
Well that's it then. Aztecs in Pendraken! What will we have to use as a running joke then? Unless ... is this a really, really long played April Fool? Techno will do some "Oh technical difficulties" then on 1st April post photos of a chocolate bar, a Pontiak and a 1980's Scottish new wave band?
Actually I'm very glad. FK has waited a long time for these and has taken much stick for his desire for painted young men in feathers.
Enjoy FK, enjoy!
May I observe that the range will allow plenty of scope for conversions too? The novices would just need to have their topknots filed off and a headband painted on, and there are your Tlaxcalan auxilliaries for the Spaniards (and the Coyote suit-wearers just need a feathery texture to become Tlaxcalan champions). The Jaguars will effortlessly paint up as tzitzimitl ghost warriors, and so on.
I am sure they could be painted up for a Warband army too? Serpent Men instead of Dragon Men?
Should I send you some of the minis I made already ?
That sounds like a useful boost. :)
Quote from: Leon on 21 October 2015, 11:00:26 PM
So, let us know what you think, add anything we might be missing, and include any pics where possible. We'll pass all this onto Phil and we'll make some progress on ticking this range off the Top 10 Requests list!
Llamas and alpacas (both naked and pack), tapirs, jaguars, caimans, anacondas, winged serpents, coypu, capybara and cavies/guinea pigs... ;)
If you could add in some
morokanth, ahem, fantasy tapir-men then that would be even more awesome :D
Cheers!
Meirion
Oh come ON !
You can all make your own anacondas !
Cheers - Phil
One possible nice to have (as opposed to must have) would be the Aztec Tlamemeh, or porters, who brought supplies and reloads to the Aztec warriors.
(http://www.mexicolore.co.uk/images-ans/ans_87_01_2.jpg)
Also, have I missed the "shorn heads" in the list?
(http://i.imgur.com/CyG3FYf.jpg)
Not sure my painting is up to the challenge these days but what's not to love about an army that looks like this?
(http://www.ancientmilitary.com/images/aztec-warriors.jpg)(http://40.media.tumblr.com/e8b2aafcb19e5dce38aadda690ec96d9/tumblr_npv7ccp3Jn1u6oeoao1_r1_1280.jpg)(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/15/7e/d2157efc822cf019ec3df879cc9cc0b5.jpg)
Quote from: Techno on 22 October 2015, 01:55:02 PM
Oh come ON !
You can all make your own anacondas !
Cheers - Phil
Yeah, but it wouldn't have the style or panache of an official Techno rolled length of greenstuff 8)
:P ;) ;D
(Yes.........But what will I charge Leon ?) ;)
Men in one piece 'pajamas' will be a piece of widdle......How some of the headdresses will come out of a mould without snapping off, is another matter. X_X
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: barbarian on 22 October 2015, 10:54:54 AM
Should I send you some of the minis I made already ?
Thanks for the offer, but probably not, it would be better to keep them all from one sculptor and the same style, etc. I appreciate the offer though! 8)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 22 October 2015, 02:27:54 PM
One possible nice to have (as opposed to must have) would be the Aztec Tlamemeh, or porters, who brought supplies and reloads to the Aztec warriors.
FK had mentioned those in an email as well, so we're thinking we might be able to convert them from one of the other porter codes we've already got.
:-\
Quote from: Techno on 22 October 2015, 03:46:40 PM
How some of the headdresses will come out of a mould without snapping off, is another matter. X_X
I think those will come under the 'Back banners' bit, where we'll have to sprue them up and cast them separately for folks to add themselves. Some of those larger ones on poles would never cast if they were attached to the figure.
Quote from: Leon on 22 October 2015, 04:09:30 PM
I think those will come under the 'Back banners' bit, where we'll have to sprue them up and cast them separately for folks to add themselves. Some of those larger ones on poles would never cast if they were attached to the figure.
Oh....Yeah !....'Course X_X (Only ever had to do that at this scale , once before......And I'd forgotten all about that.....At least it'll make things easier.....Huzzah !)
The larger 'samurai helmet' type 'thingy' would certainly be fun to try and get to come out, attached to the model ! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
I would be very interested in an Italian wars range so some dual use Spanish would be good.
:) Rob
Got that already. The first of my current 10mm were French and Spanish renaissance.
Do you mean early 16th Century English and Scots?
I used them extensively, yep. Also a few figures from Irregular Miniatures and the late Obelisk Miniatures (also the source of my Inca army; I wonder if anyone else has one?).
NO AZTECS EVER EVER EVER
IanS
How about some civilians, priests and a human sacrifice viginette?! :d
Cheers!
Meirion
I think the range would benefit from an increase in scope. Namely more modern Mexicans. I think you should include figures such as cavalry with sombreros, revolvers, Winchesters and infantry with Mausers. :)
See that sword and buckler man - we need some for the Italian Wars as well. And weren't most of the Spanish cavalry in early C16th America remarkably like genitors?
I'm sure they will be excellent sculpts. I don't know very much about the Aztecs. Who did they fight, other than the Spanish? Will there be a compatible range of Spanish and other opponents, or will they be like the Mongols, apparently opponentless?
Quote from: John Cook on 24 October 2015, 02:25:10 PM
Will there be a compatible range of Spanish and other opponents, or will they be like the Mongols, apparently opponentless?
I'm not an expert on the period but I think most of the Elizabethan range can be brought into service, but we might need a few extra options doing on that side.
They fought the Tlaxcalans for a couple of centuries before the Europeans arrived; one reason why the Tlaxcalans readily joined the invaders, and usually formed the great majority of their forces. To this day there's bad blood between the two groups.
I believe the Otomi were originally enemies who either became or gave their name to the elite Aztec Otomi warrior group.
The following summary is from aztec-history.net
AZTEC ENEMIES
Growth, power and fame came hand in hand with making enemies when it comes to the Aztecs. The Aztecs took a lot of people from the neighboring weaker tribes to be sacrificed to their gods and that alone made them hated by the other tribes. So there was at no time any shortage of Aztec enemies. But since the Aztecs were a powerful lot and when it comes to skill they were unmatched; the other groups couldn't take down the Aztecs.
Texlacans
The Texlacans or the Tlaxcalans were amongst the major enemies of the Aztecs. They looked similar to the Aztecs and their only difference was their weapons, particularly the shield was different and they had no ranks like the jaguar or eagle elite warriors. They were also fierce but somehow the Aztecs always came out as the victor during battles except for one particular fight when the Spanish conquerors sided with the Texlacans.
Huaxtec
The Huaxtec were another tribe that was enemies with the Aztecs. Instead of the elaborate headgears and costumes, the significant or noticeable feature among the Huaxtec was that they wore pointed hats whenever they went to battle.
Purempecha
The Purempecha or the Tarascans lived to the west of the Aztecs and they were powerful too. They successfully managed to keep the Aztecs from expanding to the west and they were highly skilled warriors too just like the Aztecs. The Purempecha are now known as P'urhépecha.
Mayans
Another enemy of the Aztecs was the Mayans. The Mayans were highly skilled and were advanced too. They had a system of writing, had religious beliefs and built very impressive structures and some of those can still be seen today.
But the most significant enemy of the Aztecs was not among those found in the surrounding area of the valley, nor did they live in the same continent. These people were highly skilled, had far superior weapons than the Aztecs. They were the Spaniards; the conquistadors or the conquerors. Not only did they defeat the Aztecs and destroyed their empire, but they also defeated the Mayans.
Spanish conquistadors
Near the end of Montezuma the Second's reign, at about 1520, thirty eight tributary provinces were already present and the Aztecs were flourishing. But with the help of the other tribes at the borders of the Aztec empire, (Texlacans, etc.) the Aztecs were easily defeated by the Spaniards. Spaniards not only wisely used other tribes for their war against Aztec but they also played the card of internal strife that was present among the Aztecs themselves.
With Hernan Cortes in the lead, the Aztecs were easily defeated, especially since the weapons of the Spaniards included superior swords, guns and even cannons. The Aztec weapons were all make by hand.
In addition to that, Montezuma II naively welcomed the Spaniards, thinking that Cortes was the fair-skinned god Quetzalcoatl (The Plumed Serpent). Even though the Aztecs gave the Spaniards lots of gold and other precious items, the Spaniards were set on conquering the Aztecs so in the end, Montezuma II was killed and most of the silver, gold and other such precious items of the Aztecs were shipped to Spain.
We've been using Mapuche this weekend, from Chile, used pike, hockey sticks, bows, cavalry, brilliant!
Fought off both Inca and Spanish.
Oh, and remained independent until the 1880s!!!
There were a few striking differences in the Tlaxcalan way of doing things; most importantly, they relied, with pathetically little success, on massed archery. They certainly had plenty of warriors in distinctive fancy dress too. In fact, their duck warriors....
Using the Elizabethan range against Montezuma would be like using WWI British against the Zulus and saying, "Well they've got guns and a uniform, what more do you want?' Much better to use the Flodden figures against the 1520s Aztecs, but as yet there are no shielded light cavalry.
Quote from: Leman on 25 October 2015, 09:49:29 AM
Using the Elizabethan range against Montezuma would be like using WWI British against the Zulus and saying, "Well they've got guns and a uniform, what more do you want?'
Wait! That's wrong? OMG! I'm doing it all wrong! No more Eldar pretending to be Soviets and Space Marines masquerading as Wehrmacht in CoC for me and that cardboard box with PzIV L/70 written on the top and a drinking straw at the front is right out!
Nice to have accurate figures if they're available but frankly after decades of gaming with whatever we could cobble together the current,"I can't use that the pom-pom on that shako is the wrong shape!" leaves me bewildered.
Providing all the players know what things are, I'm happy.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 25 October 2015, 01:24:15 PM
Providing all the players know what things are, I'm happy.
=D> =D> =D>
Well said Sir!
:o :o :o Badly said. Might as well boardgame in that case. For some of us the whole point is the figures, hence spending hours in my youth converting figures to achieve what I was after. If the figures weren't important there would not be a requests thread. In fact there'd be no threads, no Ospreys, and a lot of wargamers scouring pebbles from the beach or raiding sewing baskets for buttons.
Cheaper that way.
Sometimes substitution is needed, but you have to make it clear.
IanS
Quote from: Leman on 25 October 2015, 03:52:49 PM
:o :o :o Badly said. Might as well boardgame in that case. For some of us the whole point is the figures, hence spending hours in my youth converting figures to achieve what I was after. If the figures weren't important there would not be a requests thread. In fact there'd be no threads, no Ospreys, and a lot of wargamers scouring pebbles from the beach or raiding sewing baskets for buttons.
I play boardgames at least ten times as often as I play tabletop miniatures games so maybe that explains it :)
I like figures that are easily identifiable as what they are intended to represent, the fine detail, especially in 3/6/10mm, is less important to me.
For me one of the advantages of those small scales is that many, possibly most, of the conversions I want can be done with a paintbrush. So much better than slicing my fingers with a craft knife or gluing my fingers to the table with superglue :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 25 October 2015, 06:35:05 PM
So much better than slicing my fingers with a craft knife or gluing my fingers to the table with superglue :)
Absolutely......Leave
that to the professionals ! ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
The Cuachiqueh are the "shorn ones." Nutters who declined promotion because they were addicted to adrenaline.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 03 November 2015, 02:56:20 PM
Nutters who declined promotion because they were addicted to adrenaline.
Kat related per chance ???
IanS
Needs more werewolves
Also could you make another range after the human Aztecs of Aztec frogmen ;)
No ! :P ;)
Cheers - Phil
Least the Aztec Frogs would be useful.....
IanS
Quote from: Techno on 27 January 2016, 02:57:26 PM
No ! :P ;)
Cheers - Phil
Fair enough - was only kidding anyway :-) - would like them in an ideal world, but don't expect to get them with the amount of other stuff you have to do
Quote from: Dunnadd on 27 January 2016, 06:03:57 PM
Fair enough - was only kidding anyway :-)
I was 99.9% certain of that. ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
What about Mr Cadburys parrot?
I had to look that up on Youtube.......
I don't remember that at all......And the answer's the same as for the Aztec frogs, Steve. :P ;)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Dunnadd on 27 January 2016, 02:52:30 PM
Also could you make another range after the human Aztecs of Aztec frogmen ;)
Surely they come after the range of Duckmen?
Don't you start on me again ! :P ;)
Cheers - Phil
WE WANT DUCKMEN
WHEN
NOW !!!!
Repeat endlessly until someone takes note ;)
IanS
Don't start on Phil othewise he'll down the mobile library when the rain stops ( It really is good weather for ducks at the moment) to see if they have copy if the bill of rights to protect him
Yeah. Don't ruffle his feathers.
Actually, the reason he uses the library is because he's notoriously mean. In fact tight as a ...
X_X ~X(
GO AWAY ! ;)
Cheers - Phil
Stop it, Phil's quacking up!
You're all just trying to make me say "Mallard off", aren't you ?
Hah !......I've got you lot sussed.
Cheers - Phil
If your not going to do ducks
How about some WW2 amphibious vehicles?
Turf off ! ;)
Cheers - Phil
WE WANT DUCKMEN
WHEN
NOW !!!!
Repeat endlessly until someone takes note :d
IanS
Quote from: ianrs54 on 28 January 2016, 12:43:11 PM
WE WANT DUCKMEN
WHEN
NOW !!!!
Repeat endlessly until someone takes note :d
Ian
Do you really want Duckmen or is a new strategy to get your post count up so you can get to the rank above Major General?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
No, Steve.
He's just trying to wind me up...... as usual. ;)
Cheers - Mr Leave Me-Alone. :P