Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Given the initial debates over possible army list changes, i thought it might be useful to run a poll over what armies we'd like to see in BkCIII.   :)

BkCII currently has the above army lists.

Which army lists will you definitely want to see in BkCIII?  

Please only select armies that you already have or will purchase.

I have no idea what armies I WILL purchase so basically I'd want to see all of them so I have the choice but if that's not possible that's fine because I'm happy to stick with BKC II, if necessary, even though I'm a sucker for new rules.

Errr... it seems to be possible to select only one. In which case, can we have an option for 'all of the above' ?

All please

Bit of a glitch in the forum poll there, I've fixed it now so you can vote for as many as you like.

8)

Sorry guys.  Living up to my name there... ;D

All of 'em bar the Spanish Civil War. That's just 'cos I got tired ticking the boxes.

Whether I buy the armies or use proxy troops, I'm likely to want to field at least parts of all of the armies listed.  I suspect heaviest use would be of Germans - any time/theatre, Brits & Commonwealth any time/theatre, USA late war, USSR late war, Italians North Africa, Japanese.

That's probably 80% of the lists right there.

Out of interest I almost never use the points, preferring to research and use historical orbats where possible.

Cheers, Andy

Ah Sediment. A man after my own kidney.

I loves me a nice order of battle. In fact I am, as I have said before, a massive OOB fan.

Moaning Andrew.

One or two of those are going to be hard to find to say the least.

Leon , if you wish to contact me back channel I've don most in more detail than we will need here.

IanS

Even if they're not in the printed book can the extras remain on the Battlegroup Generator and also perhaps have a downloadable PDF with the properly stated list you can read as per the printed lists in the book? Would give a good reason for subb'ing to the BGG (extra lists!) as well ;)

I think one of the plusses of the rules is the wide range of lists . I think they should all be included. Otherwise we will be into a case of suplements as other armies are realeased, or people will not buy the new rules because they do not have a list for the army theu want to use.

I appreciate its a lot of work redoing all the lists. I am happy to help with those I have some knowledge of.

IF some cannot be done I suggest they are kept in thier orriginal form in a seperate sectyion of "unmodified lists" with a brief description of how to convert them.

But like most ot the others making comments the accuracy of the points values or amounts you can use are fairly irrelevant. Its the stats I want them for and I will do my own scenario. 

Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 02 October 2015, 02:09:57 PM
I think one of the plusses of the rules is the wide range of lists . I think they should all be included. Otherwise we will be into a case of suplements as other armies are realeased, or people will not buy the new rules because they do not have a list for the army theu want to use. 

yup, all of them or else you are going to have to come out with a sup sooner or later. and sups suck!

Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 02 October 2015, 02:09:57 PM
I think one of the plusses of the rules is the wide range of lists . I think they should all be included. Otherwise we will be into a case of suplements as other armies are realeased, or people will not buy the new rules because they do not have a list for the army theu want to use.

I appreciate its a lot of work redoing all the lists. I am happy to help with those I have some knowledge of.

IF some cannot be done I suggest they are kept in thier orriginal form in a seperate sectyion of "unmodified lists" with a brief description of how to convert them.

But like most ot the others making comments the accuracy of the points values or amounts you can use are fairly irrelevant. Its the stats I want them for and I will do my own scenario. 

If the stats are the key would an option be to have a list of all the units with their stats and then only some of the more common army lists :-\
Might be a workable compromise between providing info, work required and size of rules

As noted previously I'm not an xWC player

Swiss and Swedes!

Always loved OOBs.
Still have all the WRG and Rapid Fire books.
As many of the list as poss for me although i will never own the actual forces.

Quote from: paulr on 02 October 2015, 06:17:29 PM
If the stats are the key would an option be to have a list of all the units with their stats and then only some of the more common army lists :-\
Might be a workable compromise between providing info, work required and size of rules

As noted previously I'm not an xWC player

Well, as you are not a bkc player, you cannot know this, but some troop types/vehicles change their statline depending in wich month and year the battle you are playing takes place, to account for new types of ammunition becoming available.For example, british forces did not issue HE shells to anti tank guns in the beginning of the war, so they don't have Anti personnel attacks, but do get them later on, when they 'historically' were issued such ammunition. (or better ammunition was developed)

So making a list of all the stats without dividing them into a specific theatre and time would be a bit hard in my opinion.

An example:

A british 6 pounder in italy 1943 has an AT of 3 dice on 60 cm and no AP attack
The same 6 pounder in the same place on 1945 would have 3/60 AT and 2/40 AP

So unless you want to have multiple statlines in the single statlist with references of theatre and time of game, it might be just easier to keep the army lists to keep them divided so you can't get it wrong.

Quote from: petercooman on 02 October 2015, 07:19:27 PM
Well, as you are not a bkc player, you cannot know this, but some troop types/vehicles change their statline depending in wich month and year the battle you are playing takes place, to account for new types of ammunition becoming available.For example, british forces did not issue HE shells to anti tank guns in the beginning of the war, so they don't have Anti personnel attacks for example, but do get them later on, when they 'historically' were issued such ammunition. (or better ammunition was developed)

So making a list of all the stats without dividing them into a specific theatre and time would be a bit hard in my opinion.

This ^^^

Stats would need to include start and end month and year and which armies they apply to. Once you've got that you're 90% of the way to an army list IMHO.

Being a pacific and Far East fanboy.  Japanese, British, Chinese, USMC, US Army, Australian Pacific, Dutch.

And for early war Europe, the Belgians.  Their list needs some attention.

Quote from: Ithoriel on 01 October 2015, 10:46:19 PM
I have no idea what armies I WILL purchase so basically I'd want to see all of them so I have the choice but if that's not possible that's fine because I'm happy to stick with BKC II, if necessary, even though I'm a sucker for new rules.

I agree.  If BKC is to reflect WW2 it has to include all lists.  Otherwise it becomes 'Pendraken's WW2 Rules for 10mm (using our) Figures'

Quote from: John Cook on 07 October 2015, 08:45:33 AM
I agree.  If BKC is to reflect WW2 it has to include all lists.  Otherwise it becomes 'Pendraken's WW2 Rules for 10mm (using our) Figures'

Thats not the intention as already stated quite clearly, there are problems with the lists, I personally don't think SCW lists should be included, does this mean that they will be automatically taken out - no, its just my opinion to gain feedback.  I like the idea of ww1(unfortunately way down the line) would these be better served by having an interwar range covering the Russian civil war, Chaco war as examples???

Dave

I don't know  about the SCW lists.  A lot of kit that was used will be used in the starting conflicts of the war, but on the other hand, it's an entirely different conflict.

I think, looking at this as a customer regarding putting the SCW i as a supplement, if i want to game that particular conflict, why would i have to buy a rulebook on WWII first, just to get to play SCW?

Maybe it would be possible to make a variant that is standalone?

Quote from: petercooman on 09 October 2015, 09:00:07 AM
I don't know  about the SCW lists.  A lot of kit that was used will be used in the starting conflicts of the war, but on the other hand, it's an entirely different conflict.

I think, looking at this as a customer regarding putting the SCW i as a supplement, if i want to game that particular conflict, why would i have to buy a rulebook on WWII first, just to get to play SCW?

Maybe it would be possible to make a variant that is standalone?

Yes, maybe keep it in and when a more simplified set comes out to cover the interwar period it moves over?

I'd be sad if the SCW list went. It also provides a great basis for those of us that game the AVBCW 'period' as well as some 'what if?' type conflicts pre-WWII.

Russian civil war (1917-1922)
And as part of that:
Estonian War of Independence (1918-1920)
Polish–Soviet War (1919-1921)

Ukrainian War of Independence (1917-1921)
And as part of that:
Polish–Ukrainian War (1918-1919)

Franco-Syrian War (1920)

Mexican Revolution (1910-1920)
Cristero War (Mexico) (1926-1929)
Chaco War (1932–1935)

Third Anglo-Afghan War (1919)
Arab revolt in Palestine (1936–1939)

Chinese Civil War (1927-1936)
Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) – in BkC's remit

Turkish War of Independence (1919-1923) – lots of potential here!
And as part of that:
Franco-Turkish War (1920-1921)
Turkish–Armenian War (1920)


And of course there's the fantasy and (thrilling!) possibilities of:

A Very British Civil War
A Very American Civil War
A Very [insert favoured nation here] War
Weird World War I follow-ons


Etc.

Is that perhaps fodder for 'Interwar Commander'?
;D

Hello Luddite

A man after my own heart.  :D :D.

Quote from: Luddite on 09 October 2015, 04:10:27 PM
Russian civil war (1917-1922)
And as part of that:
Estonian War of Independence (1918-1920)
Polish–Soviet War (1919-1921)

Ukrainian War of Independence (1917-1921)
And as part of that:
Polish–Ukrainian War (1918-1919)

Franco-Syrian War (1920)

Mexican Revolution (1910-1920)
Cristero War (Mexico) (1926-1929)
Chaco War (1932–1935)

Third Anglo-Afghan War (1919)
Arab revolt in Palestine (1936–1939)

Chinese Civil War (1927-1936)
Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) – in BkC's remit

Turkish War of Independence (1919-1923) – lots of potential here!
And as part of that:
Franco-Turkish War (1920-1921)
Turkish–Armenian War (1920)


And of course there's the fantasy and (thrilling!) possibilities of:

A Very British Civil War
A Very American Civil War
A Very [insert favoured nation here] War
Weird World War I follow-ons


Etc.

Is that perhaps fodder for 'Interwar Commander'?
;D

Some favourite reading material of mine is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_1900%E2%80%9344 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_1900%E2%80%9344). Currently looking at the Holy man's Rebellion for inspiration  :D :D. Just wondering about the rule for bullets turning into frangipani flowers

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

Quote from: Luddite on 09 October 2015, 04:10:27 PM
Russian civil war (1917-1922)
And as part of that:
Estonian War of Independence (1918-1920)
Polish–Soviet War (1919-1921)

Ukrainian War of Independence (1917-1921)
And as part of that:
Polish–Ukrainian War (1918-1919)

Franco-Syrian War (1920)

Mexican Revolution (1910-1920)
Cristero War (Mexico) (1926-1929)
Chaco War (1932–1935)

Third Anglo-Afghan War (1919)
Arab revolt in Palestine (1936–1939)

Chinese Civil War (1927-1936)
Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) – in BkC's remit

Turkish War of Independence (1919-1923) – lots of potential here!
And as part of that:
Franco-Turkish War (1920-1921)
Turkish–Armenian War (1920)


And of course there's the fantasy and (thrilling!) possibilities of:

A Very British Civil War
A Very American Civil War
A Very [insert favoured nation here] War
Weird World War I follow-ons


Etc.

Is that perhaps fodder for 'Interwar Commander'?
;D

Yes as a stand alone list, how popular?? can figures from existing ranges be culled.

Dave

For the 20's and VCBW (et al) WWI and colonial stuff is usable for arty and infantry. You would need to add some A/Cars and Lt tanks, like the Vickers 6 tonne A (the B is reasonably represented by T-26 ant TPK-7? but is also needed for the Poles in 39). Lots of the SCW stuff should also fit in.

As mentioned elsewhere Korea and the French indo-china war should be in, and not in CWC. Kit is almost all WWII, aircraft wise only the Sabre, MiG 15 and navy jets are new. The US fielded the M46, but visually it's almost identical to the M26, and we used Centurions (DOWN NOBBY).

IanS

Quote from: Luddite on 09 October 2015, 04:10:27 PM
Russian civil war (1917-1922)
And as part of that:
Estonian War of Independence (1918-1920)
Polish–Soviet War (1919-1921)

Ukrainian War of Independence (1917-1921)
And as part of that:
Polish–Ukrainian War (1918-1919)

Franco-Syrian War (1920)

Mexican Revolution (1910-1920)
Cristero War (Mexico) (1926-1929)
Chaco War (1932–1935)

Third Anglo-Afghan War (1919)
Arab revolt in Palestine (1936–1939)

Chinese Civil War (1927-1936)
Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) – in BkC's remit

Turkish War of Independence (1919-1923) – lots of potential here!
And as part of that:
Franco-Turkish War (1920-1921)
Turkish–Armenian War (1920)


And of course there's the fantasy and (thrilling!) possibilities of:

A Very British Civil War
A Very American Civil War
A Very [insert favoured nation here] War
Weird World War I follow-ons


Etc.

Is that perhaps fodder for 'Interwar Commander'?
;D

Quote from: Dave on 10 October 2015, 12:01:40 PM
Yes as a stand alone list, how popular?? can figures from existing ranges be culled.

Dave

Inter war years conflicts are not popular due in part to the lack of figures and equipment. Pendraken have built an extensive SCW range and I hope this has been a sucessful venture. Can you build armies from the existing ranges - YES!

I am the proud owner of:
White Russian
Red Russian
Baltic Grand Duchy Freikorp
Estonian Nationalist

Eventually I will build a Polish Army and expand my existing forces.

I think WW1 - 1936 period is sufficiently different to warrant its own rule set and not as an add on to Blitkrieg Commander.