Soory to have shelved this for a while - Ive been distracted by Warband and Studies in equal measures!
It looks like WW2 is the period of choice so how do people want to progress with this?
I guess for me its seeing whose in and whose not and then we can take this off forum to discuss via email perhaps?
Thoughts??
The war which, more than any other, couldn't be campaigned without scores of players with thousands of figures each. Realistic starting choice. :(
Quote from: FierceKitty on 29 September 2015, 07:14:33 PM
The war which, more than any other, couldn't be campaigned without scores of players with thousands of figures each. Realistic starting choice. :(
thousands of figures each? I don't have THAT many
Quote from: FierceKitty on 29 September 2015, 07:14:33 PM
The war which, more than any other, couldn't be campaigned without scores of players with thousands of figures each. Realistic starting choice. :(
Majority vote.
My WW II (Late War in 6mm) consists of:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-d224BdKXlgI/VdyK8BGaDYI/AAAAAAAAA9c/ImzjIn-9y6o/s320/SAM_0231.JPG)
for the Germans
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-L0f97HcftFY/VdyLOYBqSrI/AAAAAAAAA9o/Vh_-8o_2Qkc/s320/SAM_0230.JPG)
for the Brits
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QlvS4-f-iA4/TS4wNVbxJnI/AAAAAAAAAR4/s__zrZbZJXc/s320/SAM_0383.JPG)
for the Japanese
I have a medium sized Russian force but no pics.
E-mail seems like the way to go.
Quote from: Nosher on 29 September 2015, 07:52:19 PM
Majority vote.
Most convincing argument against democracy = 5 minutes' conversation with the average voter.
And as with any system there's no pleasing everyone.
What period did you choose FK? WW2 wasn't my preference and a lot depends on who wants to 'play'. If WW2 doesn't attract I'm more than happy to go with another period ;)
There ain't no problem that the good will and clear thinking of man can't solve.
I suspect that WWII is one of the most popular periods. One may opt for the 2nd Schleswig War, but no too many people will have figures ready. This would suggest that one opts for the bigger periods - ancients, ACW, Napoleonics, WWII.
Whatever your choice, you will find that there is a number of difficulties. I have a nice 1940 German force that I wouldn't like to pit against an equally sized 1945 force of most other nations.
Surely each individual player plays their own jigsaw piece of the whole picture. You have force A. You fight force B and defeat it. B retreats. Do you advance? It depends upon how mauled you were and (unless you're Patton) what's happening on your flanks. It's not beyond the wit of man to devise a ruleset where force A is US WWII 'armored' battlegroup, and your flanks are protected by Mongols and Spartans, let alone French and Canadians.
It's just a question of scale and imagination.
I could do 2nd Schleswig War! ;D
Nothing against WWII, just aware that it was a VERY big one.
2nd Schleswig was was 1864. Could have an imagi-nation campaign in which the Danes are supported by the Confederates and the Prussians by the US. :D
Sorry ... got off track for a moment.
You don't need thousands of figures to refight WWII. I use a scale of 1 model is 1 vehicle. Lots of people use 1 model - 1 troop. Upscale to 1 model - 1 squadron and my 15 model Sherman squadron becomes quite enough to represent a tank brigade.
If we have 10 members playing allied armour then you've pretty much covered Normandy at this ratio.
Admittedly, you might need a few more for the Eastern front!
And there's the Atlantic, North Africa, Norway, the Balkan and Italian campaigns, SE Asia, India, Hawaii, Biggin Hill, Poland, Malta, Crete....good luck to you, because your fingers are going to wear out painting stuff even at 1 model = a brigade.
I ran a little WW2 campaign for a group of friends a year or two back.
Map was a series of 5 box tracks superimposed on a world map.
Tracks were - Western Europe, Eastern Front, North Africa and Far East
Western Europe boxes, for example, were labelled Operation Sealion (1:3), Dunkirk (1:2), D-Day (1:1), Ardennes (2:1) and Berlin Bunker (3:1). Status marker started in D-Day.
Every week I totted up reported results (3 for a win, 2 for a draw, 1 for a loss - original, no? :) ) and the markers moved one space in the direction of the current odds, Allied:Axis points per theatre, or stayed put if already on them.
Players reported suitable games and appropriate tracks - e.g German vs US could go on North Africa or Western Europe but Japan vs US naval had to be Far East.
Games could be anything - big battle, skirmish, land, sea, air, solo or multiplayer. I ran a weekly game session at the house with four or five players usually turning up to play BKC, Crossfire or General Quarters and it provided some fun for a few weeks.
Any of that provide inspiration?
I can do eastern front, normandy (british army, paratroopers and germans), and market garden, and of course naval operations for british, french, russian, italian and germany.
Will be a bit at random, as i'll have to fit it in when i have time!
I like your thinking Ithoriel :)
You could also use the results of the previous round to set the scenario for the next round of games.
A loss means you are defending, a draw gives a meeting engagement and a win means you are attacking. These are obviously variations possible on this theme. The scale of the result could also influence the force ratios.
The scenario is just a guideline and the players determine the actual scenario, forces and rules.
Depending on how many players are involved and what forces are available you can run several 'theatres'. Players can take part in more than one theatre.
The key is to make it a number of linked games rather than attempting to recreate the whole war
"The key is to make it a number of linked games rather than attempting to recreate the whole war."
Absolutely. I think I could probably be of service, if you'll have me. It's not all Pendraken, but I've got 10mm:
USA
USA Para
USMC (mid/late war)
Brit Early War
Brit Late War
Brit Para
Brit North Africa
German Early War
German Late War
German Para
German North Africa
Soviet Early War (also used them as Poles for Early War)
Soviet Late War
French Early War
Japanese (entire war)
Working on US, German, and Soviet winter troops for late war. Okay, I'm not working on them, but they are in a box upstairs ;)
V/R,
Jack
Quote from: bigjackmac on 30 September 2015, 10:14:52 PM
Working on US, German, and Soviet winter troops for late war. Okay, I'm not working on them, but they are in a box upstairs ;)
Lol I've got so much stuff in boxes
Take care
Andy
C'mon!!! Anyone else?
I still think it's a great idea even with just a few guys.
V/R,
Jack
If you are thinking of other periods I have a fair few Ancient armiess, Medieval (Eastern Europe, Far and Middle East), ECW, ACW, FPW, WW I, Modern and Sci Fi -all in 6mm. In 10mm I have Romans, Celts, and Medieval (same as for 6mm). 15mm Macedonian, Sassanids and some Byzantines, ECW and Napoleonic Prussians.
Subedai,
I've got a little bit of ACW, a little bit of WWI, and quite a bit of modern if we go that way.
But I think WWII is the setting? Listing troop types was not do all of them, just to help on selecting a theater/campaign (I think).
V/R,
Jack
Quote from: bigjackmac on 06 October 2015, 07:11:05 PM
Subedai,
I've got a little bit of ACW, a little bit of WWI, and quite a bit of modern if we go that way.
But I think WWII is the setting? Listing troop types was not do all of them, just to help on selecting a theater/campaign (I think).
V/R,
Jack
Exactly. That's why I listed my other stuff as well so that people could cross reference their own stuff with it and then we can all come to an agreement.
Well, if my handful of 8th Army and Afrika Korps can help things along, I'm game to try.
FK,
I don't think anyone needs a whole lot of any kind of force, just both sides. I'd imagine everyone would be playing 'representative' games, using whatever forces they have and whatever rules they prefer, to play out a type of fight (attack/defense/meeting engagement/delay/etc...) representing the action and forces in geographical area.
So, if three guys are playing, they each play out a portion of the battlefield in (in this case) North Africa. Three guys make it easy: one is the left, one the center, and one the right. Let's say all three are meeting engagements: the guy on the left is playing against a buddy, with about a platoon per side using Chain of Command. The guy in the center is playing against a buddy with a regiment per side using BKC. And the guy on the right is playing solo with a company per side using 5Core Company Command (sorry, my way of playing with my favorite rules :D). The Brits barely scrape out a win on the left, the Brits whoop some butt in the center, and the Germans win handily on the right. So the next fight on the left will be a Brit hasty attack. In the center will be a British encirclement or pursuit battle. On the right will be a German prepared attack.
I think that's how this sort of thing goes.
V/R,
Jack
OK, I'm in, as the bishop said to the actress.
Easy bishop, that's just my guess! This is Nosher's baby.
V/R,
Jack
Not really 10mm... but I have a three or four 15mm German armies (may as well call it a full battalion) that can cover both East and Western front conflicts from mid-1944 all the way to Berlin. I also have a Normandy-Ardennes US Tank company. My gaming buddy has late war Soviets.
Really pleased to see there's a fair bit of interest however its not something I'm likely to get around to quickly so if someone else wants to take this on as the conduit to making it happen sooner I'm more than happy
Dammit Nosher, you're supposed to be running this show!!! ;) :P
I don't mind hopping in to try to herd some cats, but I'm not ready yet either, I've still got to finish my Cold War campaign, then I need a couple weeks rest (I haven't painted anything in ages, or at least it feels that way!).
So I'm game here in a month or so.
Any ideas from the crowd regarding a framework?
I have Battlefront's 'Firestorm' box for Market Garden, which I bought specifically to use as the backbone of a campaign. I think this works as most folks interested in WWII seem to have US, Brits, and Germans. Here we have "Pendraken Participants" (PPs for short, meaning the guys on this forum that agree to be part of this) that would play out tabletop battles to advance the campaign to its conclusion. The PPs would play in whatever scale they wish, using whatever rules they wish, at whatever echelon they wish. Though there has to be an upward limit I suppose; it would be tough if someone said they wanted to play Spearhead, putting a Division per side on the table, as that doesn't seem to fit very well into the Market Garden scheme of things. Similarly, pure skirmish games (a squad or less per side, let's say) is probably not optimal as well.
But, as I stated above, I think a PP could play platoon vs platoon with Chain of Command/Force on Force/No End in Sight/etc..., while another PP could play company vs company with 5Core Company Command/I Ain't Been Shot Mum/Battlegroup Normand/etc..., and another PP could play battalion vs battalion (or regiment) with Blitzkrieg Commander/Crossfire/Flames of War/etc... The point is that each tabletop battle is representative of the action in that sector.
I don't have any idea of how many tabletop fights it totals out to, but I figure you could divide it up into areas of responsibility for gamers. As a very simple example, with three PPs (meaning guys here that are involved either in playing solo games or against 'real-life' opponents, but are the representative here for the campaign) you have a PP for XXX Corps, a PP for Brit Airborne, and a PP for US Airborne. If the games are against 'real-life' opponents, it's fine if the PP is playing on the table as the Germans, we're just saying that PP is responsible for playing all the fights in the campaign involving XXX Corps, Brit Abn, or US Abn.
If there were four PPs, you've got XXX Corps, Brit Abn, US 101st, and US 82nd. Not sure how we could further break it up if there were more players, but we can cross that bridge when/if we need to. I think you have a set type/structure of fights, so that whomever is running the campaign can let the PPs know what's happening. For example:
Meeting Engagement, attacker/defender 1:1, defeat enemy force
Hasty Attack, attacker/defender 2:1, attacker with limited support (adapt 'limited support' to fit your rules), seize terrain objective
Prepared Attack, attacker/defender 3:1, attacker full support, defender dug-in with limited support, seize terrain objective
Breakthrough Attack, attacker/defender 3:1, attacker full support, defender dug-in with limited support, attacker exit defender's table edge
Withdrawal, attacker/defender 2:1, attacker with limited support, defender exit 60-75% of force off own table edge
Relief Effort, attacker/defender 2:1, attacker with limited support and split 25% at one table edge, 75% at other, defender in center, attacker must link up.
I'm sure we could come up with more, and add more twists, but you get the picture.
Then you need to agree to some sort of framework, i.e., we will play one game per week, or every two weeks, etc..., then send the stuff to the campaign manager. Then you need to sign a document stating, on your childrens' lives, you will stick to the agreed schedule and actually finish the campaign ;)
Well, those are my thoughts. I yield the floor ;)
V/R,
Jack
Personal preference would be for a very loose connection between the games and the campaign to allow as many as possible to join in.
People play their games using whatever rules, figures, scales and forces they like. Air and sea games as well as ground forces if people want.
They report the results in a form similar to the thread about the games we play.
As an example:
Axis Forces Involved:
Allied Forces Involved:
Theatre:
Number of Players:
Rules Used:
Outcome:
Forces involved may be as generic as "German" or as detailed as 2nd Platoon, 1st Company, 1st Battalion, 215th Infantry Regiment - up to the person reporting and the game played.
Theatre maybe should be restricted to Western Europe; Eastern Front; North Africa, Italy and the Balkans; Far East
Outcome options are Major Allied Victory, Minor Allied Victory, Inconclusive, Minor Axis Victory, Major Axis Victory. Top of my head suggestion, 5pts for a major victory, 3 for a minor, 1 for a draw.
Possible Victory conditions for the campaign are first to X points. 100, 1,000, 10,000 or whatever - depending how long you want the campaign to run and how many take part. Alternatively first side to achieve a score of X points ahead of the other wins.
Campaign rewards should be fun bonuses not major restrictions or game winning advantages. Say one re-roll per game for every Theatre the side you are playing is ahead in points? Players decide with their opponents if they include these in a game or not.
Every week/ fortnight/ month - again probably depends on number of games reported and time available to campaign organiser(s) - points are totalled and organiser(s) provide the stats and a brief narrative of how the war is going.
Say there are 12 reported games from the Eastern Front. 3 are major Axis victories (15 points), 3 are inconclusive (3 points each) and 6 are Allied Minor Victories (18 points) giving the Allies a slight lead of 21 points to 18. The report might say: "This is the PBC (Pendraken Broadcasting Service) News, reports from the Eastern Front are that a series of Soviet spoiling attacks have significantly reduced the impact of major German attacks, with a possibility the German spearhead units may be encircled."
Players may want to report their own chosen news source's view of things :)
I'd offer to run it but physical and mental health coupled with a chronic case of disorganisation means I would be an unreliable umpire at best. Happy to help out of anyone else organises anything though.
As ever, these are random thoughts more than a formulated plan!
I take it the terrain at any given battle would be worked out by the individual concerned; taking into consideration the type of battle it is.
A month or two down the line suits me fine.
Ithoriel,
I think that sounds amazing, a really cool idea. I would like to take part in that, but personally that's not something I'd want to try to run. But I love the idea of taking part, with the freedom of coming and going, playing different theaters, and I'd contribute air and naval batreps as well.
I love the "PBC" ideas as well, too cool!
V/R,
Jack
Quote from: Subedai on 07 October 2015, 06:16:31 PM
I take it the terrain at any given battle would be worked out by the individual concerned; taking into consideration the type of battle it is.
A month or two down the line suits me fine.
My preference would be that people play whatever games they want without much restriction. The theatre would be determined by the combatants involved but otherwise I'd say pretty much anything goes. Rules, figures, terrain, scale etc are all down to the participants.
No problem for me if some people are fighting Ardennes 1940 and others are fighting Ardennes 1944 or D-Day or Dieppe.
Given this is the Pendraken website it would be nice to get some in-game shots of Pendraken kit in action and perhaps some AARs of BKC games - lets not be ungenerous to our hosts here. But if people wanted to report games of Spearhead in 6mm or Bolt Action in 28mm or even games of Heroes of Normandie or Memoir '44 I'd be up for including them.
For me the aim is to generate a group activity that can include as many folks here as want to join in.
YMMV!!
My original intent was that participants would fight whatever theatre suited them with whatever rules they prefer and that only the result would feed into the final result.
I'd be playing various games - IABSM, CoC, Bolt Action and BKC depending on what I fancied playing and time I had available. I also envisaged most of my games being solo, although whenever I participated in a WW2 club game I'd do a batrep for that and include it in the campaign.
I wouldn't necessarily see each of my games as continuing on from the last - not every time anyway.
What Nosher and Ithoriel are saying is good with me, I will gladly take part.
Someday, though, I'd like to run a campaign as I described above ;)
V/R,
Jack