http://www.sammustafa.com/honour-forums/general-discussion-announcements/war-to-the-death-coming-soon/?PHPSESSID=f8117adddb41d744d14a1e3395e0fff6
First expansion set for Blucher covering the Peninsula War.
Feeling Giddy 8-} :O) <:-P
No excuse now for another Napoleonic Range - Spaniards :d
This wants me to have a go at at Blucher
Much more interesting
Excellent, that's the period of Napoleoics I want to do next.
(Since I have the figures, I might have to get the rules!)
What size are the bases Nosher?
Looking at the cards in the link it shows Bavarians and Cuirassiers in Spain, and also brigades deployed in 2 lines. Can't argue with any of that can you? :-\
I wonder if it will change the use of artillery, or will it still use the massed battery method? :-\ (For the British? ;D)
I suppose it depends on what you want out of your games, but blocks of British line on a base with massed artillery does not ring my bell I am afraid. :)
(i recognise I will probably be burnt as a heretic for mentioning historical accuracy and not trending with the latest Nappy fad. :-S) (If I was really piccy I would mention the plumes for Bavarians and Cuirasseurs are on the wrong side :o )
I cant argue with the Bavarians but perhaps they are Badenese Infantry with the blue done too light?
(http://www.napoleon-series.org/images/military/organization/baden2.jpg)
They certainly do look Bavarian though.
There were actually Cuirassiers in Spains, as the 1st Provincial Heavy Cavalry, which were reconstituted into the 13th Cuirassiers and sent to the Danube in 1809. Moreover the unit stats and costs on that card are of French Dragoons and not of Cuirassiers so I don't know whats going on there, especially as they are labeled 'Late' which implies after 1809.
The cards are just depictions I'm not sure arguing with them being in 2 lines is anything more than pedantry.
Furthermore just like the normal game of Blucher I can't see any reason you couldn't use all your artillery as attachments to Line units instead of massed as artillery batteries.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 06 September 2015, 08:06:22 AM
Excellent, that's the period of Napoleoics I want to do next.
(Since I have the figures, I might have to get the rules!)
What size are the bases Nosher?
The cards are 9x6cm.
I've stuck with my 30x30 bases using four bases to represent the unit. Yes that's smaller than the card size but it doesn't affect game play too much.
Quote from: Rob on 06 September 2015, 10:01:14 AM
Looking at the cards in the link it shows Bavarians and Cuirassiers in Spain, and also brigades deployed in 2 lines. Can't argue with any of that can you? :-\
The set is a full set of cards representing the armies as listed in the main Blucher Rule book so does include units that may not have been in the peninsula. Its themed on the penisula campaigns but allows you the flexibility to use the cards in other theatre's.
There will be a second set of cards representing all of the other armies not in the set to 'round the circle'
Hope that helps ;)
Quote from: Rob on 06 September 2015, 10:01:14 AM
I wonder if it will change the use of artillery, or will it still use the massed battery method? :-\ (For the British? ;D)
I suppose it depends on what you want out of your games, but blocks of British line on a base with massed artillery does not ring my bell I am afraid. :)
Sadly you will never stop the power gamer maxing out on their army builds. Those of us who want historical accuracy will have attached artillery at best or none at all.
As per the previous post cards are included for all options as the set is meant to be flexible to use the lists in other periods
Quote from: Nosher on 06 September 2015, 11:40:44 AM
Sadly you will never stop the power gamer maxing out on their army builds. Those of us who want historical accuracy will have attached artillery at best or none at all.
As per the previous post cards are included for all options as the set is meant to be flexible to use the lists in other periods
Thanks for the clarifications. I did not realise there was an option for attaching artillery; I thought it was only depicted as massed batteries, so that is my mistake. My knowledge of Blucher comes from an on-line video of the game which managed to inflate my prejudices against this type of game.
Rob's Prejudices: I just cannot like a Napoleonic game that has troops in a block on a base representing all fighting modes. For a start it just does not look anything like a battle (or what I think it would look like). It's not just the Blucher rules, its also Volley-and-Bayonet and FoGN. I know these rules are popular, but I just don't like that type of game for playing Wargames of more modern sophisticated warfare. They are fine for ancients and up to say the Italian Wars, but later warfare has tactical nuances that I think are well worth capturing, and are part of the attraction of each sub-period.
It depends on what each individual wants from his games but; I just don't subscribe to the view that for larger battles you must deal with blocks of brigades and divisions on a base for the game to move at speed. What is required is different thinking starting point. I like my lines, columns and squares. I like cavalry to be able to charge in mass and sweep through lines of squares without being destroyed. If you are ever in Leicester give me a shout and I will show you what I mean.
Cheers, Rob :) :)
Good points (and valid too) Rob.
I like the abstraction of Blucher but then again, I'm a lazy wargamer. ;)
Quote from: xccam on 06 September 2015, 11:29:48 AM
There were actually Cuirassiers in Spains, as the 1st Provincial Heavy Cavalry, which were reconstituted into the 13th Cuirassiers and sent to the Danube in 1809. Moreover the unit stats and costs on that card are of French Dragoons and not of Cuirassiers so I don't know whats going on there, especially as they are labeled 'Late' which implies after 1809.
Could be wrong here but I think that whilst there may have been up to two Cuirassier units in Spain at one time (based in Catalonia?), neither of them wore the cuirass. If so, if Sam is giving them the same fighting ability as Dragoons, it suggests he has got it right.
Quote from: Rob on 06 September 2015, 12:13:17 PM
I like my lines, columns and squares.
I'm still a fan of warmaster-like bases. 4 bases togheter can easily be formed into line column and square! None of that square stuff :p
Got hold of, and read, a copy of Blücher today.
As an army/corps level game, they look spot on to me, especially after trying to play multicorps level Principles.
75mm squares then, good thing that's my standard size base for 1870 and Leon knows it!
I will be building an allied and French force for Spain.
I can also see my HUGE Allied-Anglo-Dutch-Brunswick-Hannover force in 18mm being used for 1815.
Yes, if you like division and regiments/battalions it's not going to be your thing, but when. 6x4 table represents 4.5 miles, one stand is the zone of control of a division, so, yes, The British line would fill the first 10mm of that, but everything else behind would be secure! ;)
Quote from: Rob on 06 September 2015, 12:13:17 PM
Rob's Prejudices: I just cannot like a Napoleonic game that has troops in a block on a base representing all fighting modes. For a start it just does not look anything like a battle (or what I think it would look like). It's not just the Blucher rules, its also Volley-and-Bayonet and FoGN. I know these rules are popular, but I just don't like that type of game for playing Wargames of more modern sophisticated warfare. They are fine for ancients and up to say the Italian Wars, but later warfare has tactical nuances that I think are well worth capturing, and are part of the attraction of each sub-period.
It depends on what each individual wants from his games but; I just don't subscribe to the view that for larger battles you must deal with blocks of brigades and divisions on a base for the game to move at speed. What is required is different thinking starting point. I like my lines, columns and squares. I like cavalry to be able to charge in mass and sweep through lines of squares without being destroyed. If you are ever in Leicester give me a shout and I will show you what I mean.
Cheers, Rob :) :)
I'm curious - what ruleset do you use? I have the same prejudice as well.
I on the other hand am a Grand Tactical Player with little money, little space and little time to do Sparker RN type 28mm battalion is the maneuver element multicorps army level games.Not that those are not cool. But they are cool like Bugati. Either I give up on gaming, or I need to find lots of money ,time and space. I want the divisions! Brigades in depth or line is enough for me :p So Blucher seems good to me. But I want Liepizg. Not this Spanish stuff :p
Quote from: Leon026 on 20 October 2015, 03:46:01 PM
I'm curious - what ruleset do you use? I have the same prejudice as well.
I use my own. They are at a higher tactical/strategic level than GdB and FogN but a little lower than Volley-and Bayonet or Blucher. They are meant to enable easily a battle of a corps V corps each controlled by a single player to completed in an evening. 30mm equals 100 paces so 2 foot equals a mile. Battalions are represented by fixed sized units; these vary by nation to give different "flavours". You can put as many figures as you like on a base. I use the max so 24 to a French Nappy battalion, 36 to an Austrian, 32 to a British. No reason for you not to put them in a single rank and have half these amounts. In fact figures are a nice to have as battalion sizes are fixed you could if inclined use blocks of wood or card.
I will be doing a multi-player game in a few weeks. If you are any where near to Leicester you are welcome to come along. I'll try and remember to take a camera.
Cheers, Rob
Sadly I'm based in France, and currently on TDY in Stuttgart, Germany :(
Would certainly be interested in photos though! I too am developing my own home-made rules (aren't we all?) because I just get the feeling that some rules just don't do it for me. I read through GdB, found it very interesting, but the basing put me off, as I'd already based for Lasalle, which I find a little dated as well, as I very much prefer alternate activation or Warmaster style activation as opposed to IGOUGO. Anyhow, I digress, photos would be wonderful.
I think rules that play at the higher level and don't let the player use line / column / square are simply forcing the player to wear one hat and not several hats i.e. the player is put at the head of the army and it is assumed that all the other things are being taken care of by junior commanders.
That sentiment seems good and proper - but I do share the sentiment that I like to see the line / column / square on the table. I'm not sure that the player has to strictly sit at just one command level, though I do think a player should not have power over everything, some chaos is often deliciously frustrating :D
Quote from: Leon026 on 21 October 2015, 04:40:50 PM
Sadly I'm based in France, and currently on TDY in Stuttgart, Germany :(
Would certainly be interested in photos though! I too am developing my own home-made rules (aren't we all?) because I just get the feeling that some rules just don't do it for me. I read through GdB, found it very interesting, but the basing put me off, as I'd already based for Lasalle, which I find a little dated as well, as I very much prefer alternate activation or Warmaster style activation as opposed to IGOUGO. Anyhow, I digress, photos would be wonderful.
Hi Leon,
I thoroughly applaud you making your own rules. I really think everybody should try it. In trying to abstract real life into a game you can learn a lot about the period you are trying to portray.
Cheers, Rob :) :)
One solution to the grand-tactical tactical divide is to insert friction in the form of the ability of brigade, or battalion commanders to take the proper tactical disposition for the things you want them to do. This would require some random mechanism, but the idea would be that there is an x non-zero probability that the on the spot commanders did not take the best tactical disposition for the task you gave to their formation. For example a brigade or battalion sent to a firefight that goes in deep columns.
You can even have the randomness decreased by attaching your CnC to the formation, thus representing the sometimes tactical focus of commanders like Wellington at Waterloo.
But this can make a game run very slowly.
Out today and available from Northstar Miniatures at £26. And its PAYDAY :O)
Quote from: KTravlos on 22 October 2015, 04:07:15 PM
One solution to the grand-tactical tactical divide is to insert friction in the form of the ability of brigade, or battalion commanders to take the proper tactical disposition for the things you want them to do. This would require some random mechanism, but the idea would be that there is an x non-zero probability that the on the spot commanders did not take the best tactical disposition for the task you gave to their formation. For example a brigade or battalion sent to a firefight that goes in deep columns.
You can even have the randomness decreased by attaching your CnC to the formation, thus representing the sometimes tactical focus of commanders like Wellington at Waterloo.
But this can make a game run very slowly.
I think we almost need a forum for game/rule designs. I have a system I'm working on to reflect that form of fog of war where units gets gradually disordered and more difficult to control.
I'm the same, being brought up on a wargaming diet of 25mm Napoleonics back in the 1970's I much prefer the visual impact of a division in l'ordre mixte or a brigade of infantry in squares due to cavalry. I use a set of rules specifically devised for 5mm Napoleonics -the old Mini Figs blocks.
Pictures from my blog are here:
http://thewordsofsubedai.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/neustadt-solo-5mm-napoleonic-battle.html
Really can't be doing with 12 figures equalling a battalion in any size or a brigade made up of a single base of 6mm figures. I am also quite happy with playing a small part of a battle if I don't have the space for the whole fight...which is quite often.
Blucher sized bases let you set the units up nicely - my recently done (most) Anglo-German 1st Coalition chaps are two units of 24 figure in line to a base, one behind the other with space to pop a au commander, an attached arty piece and/or skirmish screen (not very likely!) with them. It's still representative but does look good.
The Avant Garde should be good looking when I get them done, with their mix of cavalry, line and jaegers/Grenzers etc. not looking forward to the many bases of Austrians. White on white with white. Snow blind...
For Order Mixed I'm thinking one unit in line, two columns behind, skirmishers out front. Battalion sizes of sixteen figures, probably. Double rank on the line and columns in four by four. The French are really someone else's problem though, I've got enough to do with my own stuff and commissions :D
I'm just going to repeat my 1870 basing methods, it's the same sized bases... ;)