Poll
Question:
Which Cause and Why?
Option 1: Royalist
votes: 13
Option 2: Parliament
votes: 14
Great to see a resurgence on the forum of ECW Topics :)
With that in mind who do you support and why?
Its always been Parliament for me. I have never played Royalists other than when I've played both sides in a solo game.
Why?
I was first introduced to ECW in the late 80's at Detmold Wargames Club by a very old friend. WRG (R) and I played the Parliamentarian Forces.
My first army in 15mm was a Parliamentarian Essex Minis army.
Cavaliers all the way!
How could one field a bunch of dour, fun-hating religious bigots when there are licentious roister-doisters to lead to victory? ;)
My heart is with the King...but my head is with Parliament.
As with the ACW my heart is with the South but my head is with the North.
In a lot of civil wars there's no rear 'bad/good' guy, nothing is clear cut and both sides have something going for them.
If I was to play an ECW battle I don't think I'd be bothered which side I was on.
Parliament is my choice, no absolutist monarch for me - January 30th 1649 is a date that should be marked with a bank holiday :d
Cheers
Ian
Cavaliers. I don't care for arbitrary divine right autocracy, but military dictatorship is worse. And the Royalists have more poets.
Oops, I agree with Ithoriel. Is it too late to change my vote?
Royalists have more style.....
And then there is the puritan religious bit...
IanS m/
I like to play both sides - its more interesting - different armies, different attributes (e.g., Montrose Army, Covenanters, Parliamentary with Cuirassiers, Royalist with more Horse, etc.) I'm not there to take a political stance. I'm there to recreate history (or not) with toy soldiers. :)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 20 August 2015, 08:42:34 AM
Oops, I agree with Ithoriel. Is it too late to change my vote?
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day" ;)
My one says "He who live by frank march die by frank march."
On second thoughts, I'll come off the fence - roister-doistering sounds a lot more fun!
Huzzah! Down with those Roundhead Party Poopers! <:-P
In my youth I was a Royalist sympathiser, now I am older and wiser I support the Parliamentarian force, although I still like the thought of fighting with Prince Rupert.
Interestingly one of the boys I teach is the direct descendent of Col. John Hotham who was very active in the civil war in Yorkshire, he still lives in the same mansion with a portrait of John Hotham over the dining table!
Parliament for me.
Well I grew up just outside of St Ives in Cambs that had a stature of Cromwell in the market square, so have always wanted to play the Parliamentarians.
Always been a staunch Parliamentarian, but support the king. A strange statement I know but most of the early Parliamentarian leaders were not against the king only his ministers. Have a large 15mm version of Essex's Army of 1642.
ASIDE: Years ago I was told that at the time of the ECW it was an offence to call Parlaimentarian soldiers 'Roundheads' because it was considered derogatory. The word came into being because the apprentices who made up the London Trained Bands were easily recognised by their 'pudding basin' style haircuts but the word has since been used for all Parliamentarian troops.
Also, I believe that the word cavalier was originally meant to be derogatory but when that didn't work the Parliamentarians began using the phrase 'shagpolls and rattlepates'.
John Hotham and his son also called John, were executed for treason after being caught trying to surrender Hull to the Royalists in 1643.
My 10mm ECW armies are based around the campaign in Yorkshire 1643, Fairfax's clubmen make for some fun games
Cheers
Ian
Quote from: Subedai on 20 August 2015, 10:29:43 AM
ASIDE: Years ago I was told that at the time of the ECW it was an offence to call Parlaimentarian soldiers 'Roundheads' because it was considered derogatory.
Also, I believe that the word cavalier was originally meant to be derogatory but when that didn't work the Parliamentarians began using the phrase 'shagpolls and rattlepates'.
I didn't realise 'political correctness' started that far back. :D
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 20 August 2015, 11:05:48 AM
I didn't realise 'political correctness' started that far back. :D
Cheers - Phil
The Furies in ancient Greece were renamed
The Kind Ones in an attempt to placate them.
Royalist, and if you have to ask why you are a rebellious, godless, cur who needs his ears boxing! ;)
Mollinary
Royalist, anything is better than Presbyterianism.
Phil. You sir are a rattlepatte!
Yup that works
The only insult need for Phil - WELSH. Wales - an example of a country where Cromwell's attitudes still hold sway.
IanS
Men of Harlech, stand ye steady.
It is not yet time for beddy.
Evans, put away your teddy....
Quote from: cameronian on 20 August 2015, 11:27:51 AM
Royalist, anything is better than Presbyterianism.
On its face, that's a puzzling statement when attached to your username ;)
Well I voted "King" because Oliver Cromwell banned Christmas, and was warty ... and the statue of Cromwell in Warrington in creepy and because Parliament usurped the bounds which had been set upon them by his Gracious Majesty and thus God.
Really, I think they were one as bad as the other, but I've always had a soft spot for Prince Rupert and his dog "Boy".
Quote from: FierceKitty on 20 August 2015, 11:43:53 AM
Evans, put away your teddy....
Why was Evans wearing a teddy? :-\
Quote from: fsn on 20 August 2015, 11:50:39 AM
Really, I think they were one as bad as the other, but I've always had a soft spot for Prince Rupert and his dog "Boy".
So ....... when they said Rupert took his 'boy' for frequent walks, he was actually only taking his dog for a walk? Whew! That's a relief! #:-S
Ask the Taffs on the site.
Parliament, the area of Shropshire I grew up in was (and still is) staunchly anti-Royalists after the Royalists burnt their churches three times!
In fact it was so radical that the 'Bishops Castle and Clun Clubmen' were the first in the country and backed NEITHER side after the parliamentary forces burned down the new church!!!
In fact, the two Moore brothers, one who became a huge bigwig in the parliament army was ransomed for £4000 which was more than Wupert got for Birmingham! ;)
But who would pay ANYTHING for Birmingham ;D ;D
IanS
ps - we are out of period - The war of 3 kingdoms and subsequent comonwealth are 1642 - 1660, dates for this sub-board start at 1680.......
Quote from: Subedai on 20 August 2015, 10:29:43 AM
A strange statement I know but most of the early Parliamentarian leaders were not against the king only his ministers.
Indeed, many believed that it was the Ministers and hangers-on that were feeding the King false information, and therefore Charles hadn't actually made any mistakes at all before and during the war. Also a nice handy way to politely avoid laying any blame at HRH's feet in the event of the Royalists winning the war.....
Regarding the apprentices, Colonel John Hampden's (MP) Regiment of Foote was made up of "butchers and dyers". :)
Quote from: Bodvoc on 20 August 2015, 09:11:25 AMInterestingly one of the boys I teach is the direct descendent of Col. John Hotham who was very active in the civil war in Yorkshire, he still lives in the same mansion with a portrait of John Hotham over the dining table!
Now that, is a corking bit of family history! :D
Quote from: Westmarcher on 20 August 2015, 12:08:02 PM
Why was Evans wearing a teddy? :-\
So ....... when they said Rupert took his 'boy' for frequent walks, he was actually only taking his dog for a walk? Whew! That's a relief! #:-S
To avoid confusion, Rupert spelt his dog's name 'Boye'.
Quote from: Fenton on 20 August 2015, 11:38:37 AM
Phil. You sir are a rattlepatte!
Nicest thing anyone's said to me today. :P
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Subedai on 20 August 2015, 02:28:33 PM
To avoid confusion, Rupert spelt his dog's name 'Boye'.
Probably also spelled "sex" with one "f".
I cannot understand why anybody would side with the moneygrabbing merchant bankers parliament!
I still believe that parliament should be dissolved...preferably by a company of Gurkhas and a tank. :d
Quote from: fsn on 20 August 2015, 04:15:37 PM
Probably also spelled "sex" with one "f".
Apparently, Rupert al
fo had a
fimian friend a
f well a
f a canine one.
WTS. This is getting complicated. So, was a saker actually a faker like a Quaker in the ACW? Footnote: Quakers were pacifists who avoided war and violence. The term Quaker gun, is kind of an oxymoron and is used to describe logs, stovepipes and other devices that were painted to look like cannons to deceive the enemy into thinking an army had more artillery than it really did.
Quote from: cameronian on 20 August 2015, 11:27:51 AM
Royalist, anything is better than Presbyterianism.
Strange coming from someone with that screen name :-\ Long live the Republic! ;)
Parliament of course. 'A hereditary ruler is as absurd an idea as a hereditary mathematician. '
As for the religious side, very few of the parliamentarians were puritans but with the rise of Cromwell, they found themselves in positions of influence.
"Babel's garments we've rejected,
And our fellowship is o'er,
Babylon is fallen to rise no more."
Parliament to save us from tyranny!
I find it incredible, in this day of information technology, that so many commoners unwashed non-wargaming ...er...folk have a vague perception of the ECW as: parliament standing up for 'the people' against 'fox hunting toffs with feathers in their hats'. :(
So sad that it was the other way around but the bad guys won. :-\
In fairness, it's a pretty confusing war if you try to get any ideological stencil to fit the outlines.
I'm with the Levellers on this one. Doesn't matter what name they go under, the vastly monied and privileged seem intent on turning the clock back and ensuring that their small number of progeny keep the rest of us under the thumb. Jeremy gets my vote.
The Levellers? That bunch of nutters who thought that giving the vote to common people was a good idea!
No wonder that upstanding democrat and man of the people, Oliver Cromwell, gently persuaded them to see the error of their ways....by shooting a bunch of them!
Royalists for me, at least claiming Divine Right of Kings is being honest about ones intentions, unlike the so-called "Republic".
Parliament for me. I would like to get rid of the Monarchy and Cromwell did just that.
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 21 August 2015, 09:15:46 AM
Parliament for me. I would like to get rid of the Monarchy and Cromwell did just that.
Well said that man =D>
Cheers
Ian
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 21 August 2015, 09:15:46 AM
Parliament for me. I would like to get rid of the Monarchy and Cromwell did just that.
pft, all he did was change the term the ruler was described by for a season.
Protector or King there's little difference.
King Noll, as the Cavaliers called him.
A well deserved title for a vile man! :D
What I am surprised about is that there are so many forum members who actually care enough to have an opinion.
I must try the same thing on the Stephen/Matilda fracas. :-\
I'm surprised we're so split down the middle.
I thought it would be a big majority for one side or the other.....But I'd no idea which.
Cheers - Phil
Stephen every time.
Stephen for me as well, but I have a vested interest
I once nicknamed a Czech girlfriend Matilda Maus (German was our default medium of communication), so I suppose Matilda for me.
Weeds and nettles, briars and thorns, have thriven under you shadow, dissettlement and division, discontentment and dissatisfaction, together with real dangers to the whole.
You have been sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of god, go!
I'd have been a Digger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWzzvnPOyTM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWzzvnPOyTM)
I agree on the split, we are a house divided!
Matilda too.
In case it's unfamiliar to anyone:
(Why was this poll in the 1680s-onwards section?)
Late again.....
IanS
Thanks to all that voted ;)
Parliament scrapes a narrow victory in the voting :)
The ECW is one of those periods I just don't find interesting from a gaming point of view and don't have any sympathy for either side.
Quote from: sunjester on 21 August 2015, 08:18:49 AM
The Levellers? That bunch of nutters who thought that giving the vote to common people was a good idea!
I like their music...oh, hang on, wrong Levellers.
Seeing as Parliament won and i started the debate is everyone OK with me awarding myself a 10% payrise?
Quote from: Nosher on 03 September 2015, 06:37:52 PM
Seeing as Parliament won and i started the debate is everyone OK with me awarding myself a 10% payrise?
But we do still have a monarch, don't we? And it isn't the Cromwell dynasty? So maybe call it a draw? So, 0%!
Mollinary
A Monarch with chuff all power though.....
... but significant influence.