I've been following Paul's Turkish project (via Mr Jackson) and it got me to wondering...
If you could, I mean REALLY COULD (money and time and space were absolutely NO obstruction; 70+ million on the Lottery for instance), which battle would you want to create at 1:1?
Mine would be Minas Trirth (which I have managed at 20:1) or Helm's Deep. Both battles stick in my mind from reading Rings as a kid.
If it were a real battle it would have to Kursk. Surely the ultimate tank battle?
So, what's yours and why?
Ooh, aren't we clever :D
Forgot to say why smarty pants :P
Probably the Battle of Tannenberg
I would want to do it for the same reason Will wants to do
Mars-La Tours!
The fields of Guedena (approx 2430 BC), probably the first historical battle in that it's the first we have a historical record of. Though details are so sketchy I'd not only need the time, money, etc you mentioned but a time machine to send a drone back to record the action!
Borodino (1812) would be second choice.
Tennoji (1615) third.
Mars la Tour - same reason as Will
Oooooooohhhh!
Operation Market-Garden. What a mix of late war forces! It's long been a battle that intrigues me, especially from a "what if?" point of view. What would have happened if they had seized that corridor? Could the war have been over by Christmas? Personally, I doubt it, but it would be fun to game.
I think we could manage that now with Pendraken, but for the second time I win the lottery I would go for ...
Waterloo. Bit obvious, but it's one of those battle that get more fascinating the more I read about it. Not only that, but to see what all those 2 and 3 rank units lined up would be spectacular.
Then third lottery win (these things come in threes don't they) would be the Anabasis, the March of the 10,000. I first read Xenophon when I was about 16. Our school had a library and the librarian there was a conduit through which I could buy Penguin Classics ("are you sure you want Thucydides?). The first I bought was Herodotus, the second Xenophon.
Quote from: Fenton on 15 March 2015, 09:29:34 AM
Probably the Battle of Tannenberg
Which one? 1410, 1914 or 1944?
1914, but if I won the lottery I could stretch to all three I think
Someone going to explain Mars La Tours to me?
Big battle, but why so enticing?
Quote from: fsn on 15 March 2015, 09:36:19 AM
Oooooooohhhh!
Operation Market-Garden. What a mix of late war forces! It's long been a battle that intrigues me, especially from a "what if?" point of view. What would have happened if they had seized that corridor? Could the war have been over by Christmas? Personally, I doubt it, but it would be fun to game.
Imagine what you could do with the tabletop ;)
Cracking idea
Quote from: getagrip on 15 March 2015, 09:41:43 AM
Someone going to explain Mars La Tours to me?
Big battle, but why so enticing?
Well it was in space and one of the commanders was Frances de la Tour who was great in Rising damp.
Whats not to like?
Re. Mars la Tour - if you don't get it you'll never get it, so focus on another battle for yourself.
Quote from: Leman on 15 March 2015, 09:44:34 AM
Re. Mars la Tour - if you don't get it you'll never get it, so focus on another battle for yourself.
Don't do all the march march, pop pop stuff.
Quote from: Fenton on 15 March 2015, 09:43:41 AM
Well it was in space and one of the commanders was Frances de la Tour who was great in Rising damp.
Whats not to like?
Coat! :P
Quote from: getagrip on 15 March 2015, 09:42:46 AM
Imagine what you could do with the tabletop ;)
Cracking idea
Using 1:600 scale figures you'd only need a table 3km long for Market Garden :)
Mars-la-Tours
Two Prussain Corps stopping the French army dead in its tracks!
Infantry fighting through villages and woods, artillery lines, the
Last great cavalry on cavalry actions, but most importantly...
Von Bredlow's Death Ride!
Quote from: Ithoriel on 15 March 2015, 09:49:19 AM
Using 1:600 scale figures you'd only need a table 3km long for Market Garden :)
Yeah, that's do-able. :-\
Might need to win Euromillions too. :D
Quote from: mad lemmey on 15 March 2015, 09:54:07 AM
Mars-la-Tours
Two Prussain Corps stopping the French army dead in its tracks!
Infantry fighting through villages and woods, artillery lines, the
Last great cavalry on cavalry actions, but most importantly...
Von Bredlow's Death Ride!
Cheers. How many troops on each side?
Quote from: mad lemmey on 15 March 2015, 09:54:07 AM
Von Bredlow's Death Ride!
The only bad bit about it was that after it generals thought cavalry still had a place on the modern battlefield
Quote from: Ithoriel on 15 March 2015, 09:49:19 AM
Using 1:600 scale figures you'd only need a table 3km long for Market Garden :)
Oh! Can't I have Pendraken and a 12km long table?
Actually, we have a bridge here in Runcorn that perhaps means we could do at least a bit of it in 1:1
(http://www.geocities.ws/radisic_igor/mg_arnhem_bridge.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Runcorn_Bridge,_geograph.jpg)
Quote from: getagrip on 15 March 2015, 08:56:39 AM
which battle would you want to create at 1:1?
Honestly? I really wouldn't.
But that's just me. I don't like big battles.
Maybe the Battle of the Denmark Strait.
That would be very cool.
Actually, come to think on it - I'd pay an expert to paint, rig and 'flag' a very large amount of Rod Langton 1:1200 'Nap' naval models - Aboukir Bay. 1st Copenhagen. Kamperduin. If I looked outside of the Second Coalition, then maybe the Trafalgar Campaign.
Quote from: RoyWilliamson on 15 March 2015, 10:02:51 AM
Actually, come to think on it - I'd pay an expert to paint, rig and 'flag' a very large amount of Rod Langton 1:1200 'Nap' naval models - Aboukir Bay. 1st Copenhagen. Kamperduin. If I looked outside of the Second Coalition, then maybe the Trafalgar Campaign.
Why that one Roy?
Quote from: getagrip on 15 March 2015, 09:54:59 AM
Cheers. How many troops on each side?
Prussians 2 Corps and two cavalry divisions c20000
French, 5 corps and six cavalry divisions c100000 men!
Quote from: getagrip on 15 March 2015, 10:04:23 AM
Why that one Roy?
Because I like little model boats.
If I had to pick one it would be Aboukir Bay, aka The Battle of the Nile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Nile)
Nelson and his Band of Brothers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson%27s_Band_of_Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson%27s_Band_of_Brothers)
Nelson's man-management of his Captains before the battle. The 'fluid' tactics that he used, as opposed to the classic, static, linear ship battle.
The French flagship L'Orient blowing up in the darkness, the blast being seen and heard miles away.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Thomas_Serres_(circle_of)_-_Battle_of_the_Nile_1798.jpg/640px-Thomas_Serres_(circle_of)_-_Battle_of_the_Nile_1798.jpg)
"The Blowing up of the French Commander's Ship "L'Orient" at the Battle of the Nile, 1798, painting by John Thomas Serres"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Orient_(1791) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Orient_(1791))
I love sailing ships but CANNOT begin ANOTHER genre/period/scale.
Would look good on a massive table though. :)
The boy stood on the burning deck....
Playing a game of cricket...
Well, this is a very useful thread proving once again that one man's meat etc. Moving on .......
The ball flew down his trouser leg ...
But was lucky just to snick it
And bowled his middle wicket
Its been alluded to above but here is the maths - if you do 1:1 figures ground scale needs to be figure scale, because of unit footprint.
10mm is approx 160th scale
that is 10 meters (10 yards 11 inches) to the mile, 6m25 to the kilometer
That makes the table for Waterloo about 30 meters wide. Lommel to Arnhem is 720m
Unless you meant 1:1 - and that's called re-enactment.
1 British Battalion at Waterloo is about 20 packs from Pendraken - £90
French
73,000
50,700 infantry
14,390 cavalry
8,050 artillery and engineers
252 guns
Anglo-allies: 68,000
United Kingdom: 25,000 British and 6,000 King's German Legion
Netherlands: 17,000
Hanover: 11,000
Brunswick: 6,000
Nassau: 3,000
156 guns
Prussians: 50,000
Total: 118,000
The moulds would wear out.
In light of the above...
I'd recreate the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral in 1:1 scale.
I think that would be manageable.
Oh, right, I've millions to spend creating it.
Okay, the figures would all be cast in Gold - then painted! ;)
Austerlitz with the French appearing out of pyrotechnic mist. That would be cool.
Okay, to clarify, I meant 1:1 in terms of forces (1 man = 1 mini, unless you're playing blob games: 2mm), the scale would be up to you.
But hey, you'd be rich enough to do what you want anyway...
I'd probably buy the forum too and close down any thread which mentioned Centurions ;D
Yeah! Stick it to those Roman lovers!
Quote from: fsn on 15 March 2015, 12:52:34 PM
Yeah! Stick it to those Roman lovers!
Splitters...
Quote from: getagrip on 15 March 2015, 12:35:03 PM
I meant 1:1 in terms of forces (1 man = 1 mini)
Or boat models ;)
I was going to jokingly say sheep, for some reason ... and that made me think about the terrain and table dioramas for such a layout.
How many trees would a wood have? A forest, even? Sheep to a flock?
Crikey, how big would a hill be!
has to be Cannae for me
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 15 March 2015, 03:29:04 PM
has to be Cannae for me
I'll need a bit more than that Matt; not one of the history boys :)
Also, why that battle?
Cannae was a battle fought in what is now Lowland Scotland. It stopped the Roman march north. The XX Legion advanced upon a village by a river (which may have been the Clyde) and asked for permission to cross.
The chieftain of the village replied in the negative, and a fierce conflict ensued, in which the locals peppered the Romans with empty bottles and biological hand grenades (or out of date haggii, the records are unclear). At close quarters the Roman armour was no protection against repeated head butting and the XX Legion was thrown back.
The tired and dispirited troops were questioned about the defeat. They told the same story. When they asked to cross, the response was "ye Cannae". When they asked to treat the answer was "we Cannae" and when individual Romans asked to surrender they were cruelly slain with the cry of "ye Cannae".
The Scots seemingly didn't know a good thing even back then!
Prosper under the Empire, or slum it with independence.
Ya Cannae make it up, laddie
Quote from: fsn on 15 March 2015, 03:44:42 PM
Cannae was a battle fought in what is now Lowland Scotland. It stopped the Roman march north. The XX Legion advanced upon a village by a river (which may have been the Clyde) and asked for permission to cross.
The chieftain of the village replied in the negative, and a fierce conflict ensued, in which the locals peppered the Romans with empty bottles and biological hand grenades (or out of date haggii, the records are unclear). At close quarters the Roman armour was no protection against repeated head butting and the XX Legion was thrown back.
The tired and dispirited troops were questioned about the defeat. They told the same story. When they asked to cross, the response was "ye Cannae". When they asked to treat the answer was "we Cannae" and when individual Romans asked to surrender they were cruelly slain with the cry of "ye Cannae".
Foolishly, I started reading that and was
genuinely this was in Scotland :-[
In my defence, I've had a busy week :P :P :P ;D
If I won a very large amount of money I'd fund a film (two-parts, so it could be over five hours long) following the career of Marshal Ney.
Got to 'big up' the gingers!
QuoteIf I won a very large amount of money I'd fund a film (two-parts, so it could be over five hours long) following the career of Marshal Ney
definitely my favourite psychotic Marshall
QuoteI'll need a bit more than that Matt; not one of the history boys
you've never heard of Cannae! seriously?
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 15 March 2015, 06:24:39 PM
definitely my favourite psychotic Marshall
you've never heard of Cannae! seriously?
Nope :-[
*sighs*
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae
Quote from: mad lemmey on 15 March 2015, 06:38:56 PM
*sighs*
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae
Thanks. :)
He still hasn't told me why this one appeals though :P
Probably Ravenna (1512). Colourful, varied and small enough to be practicable. 4-5,000 Landsknechts - yummy!
Quote from: Hertsblue on 15 March 2015, 06:54:42 PM
Probably Ravenna (1512). Colourful, varied and small enough to be practicable. 4-5,000 Landsknechts - yummy!
Might cost you a bit having those fiddly little buggers painted! :)
Ah, money no object!
Quote from: Hertsblue on 15 March 2015, 06:59:03 PM
Ah, money no object!
That was the brief ;)
Can you imagine being commissioned for that lot :o
1. CANNAE - the most perfedtly executed pincer movement ever, trapping an entire Roman army. Hannibal's master move, probably still used as an example in military schools.
2. RAVENNA - a fascinating battle with the perfect mix of medieval, renaissance and experimental weapons and tactics. Love this one so much have started it in 28mm.
You sure? I'm certain Cannae was in Scotland. :-\
Or maybe it was just a Disney film?
Leave me alone :'(
:P ;D
I only know about Cannae from reading this book as a teenager.
(http://cloud1.todocoleccion.net/tc/2014/10/13/19/45689691.jpg)
May have to download similar on my Kindle to avoid a future faux pas (is that French for step dad?).
Quote from: RoyWilliamson on 15 March 2015, 07:16:30 PM
I only know about Cannae from reading this book as a teenager.
(http://cloud1.todocoleccion.net/tc/2014/10/13/19/45689691.jpg)
I've got that book
Me too!
Quote from: getagrip on 15 March 2015, 07:13:16 PM
Leave me alone :'(
:P ;D
What about the Battle of F'rozen?
Quote from: Fenton on 15 March 2015, 07:26:25 PM
What about the Battle of F'rozen?
I hate you :P
;D ;D ;D
I got rid of that book - too superficial.
Quote from: Leman on 15 March 2015, 07:54:58 PM
I got rid of that book - too superficial.
I think that's probably what I need :-[
This should help Gareth
https://youtu.be/guhXOBZOcfk
Quote from: Fenton on 15 March 2015, 08:01:34 PM
This should help Gareth
https://youtu.be/guhXOBZOcfk
;D :P
If I won £70 million I think I might be too busy on my Yacht in the carribbean with a bevy of willing young females having meaningless liasons - at least for the first two years. :d :d
If after a couple of years I had not died with a heart attack or by Mrs Orcs. I would probably want to do the main battles of the Italian Wars, followed by the D-day landings.
If that was the Battle of Cannae I am indeed Napoleon. Yet another example of why I don't play computer games: the stentorious History Channel voiceover, the brilliant mispronunciation of Latin, the constant shouty interruptions and the jerky camera work. What were the Triarii doing there? |they remained back in camp. The whole experience left me :-/ ????????
I agree. That was no help whatever in understanding Cannae.
Quote from: Hertsblue on 16 March 2015, 09:11:50 AM
I agree. That was no help whatever in understanding Cannae.
I don't think it was meant to Herts, Steve was rubbing my nose in it ;D
Quote from: Leman on 15 March 2015, 07:54:58 PM
I got rid of that book - too superficial.
Yes. I would agree with this. Just buy (read it) for the pictures.
Quote from: RoyWilliamson on 15 March 2015, 07:16:30 PM
I only know about Cannae from reading this book as a teenager.
(http://cloud1.todocoleccion.net/tc/2014/10/13/19/45689691.jpg)
This picture caused a potentially ill advised trip into the loft....and yes I do also own this book :D
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: getagrip on 16 March 2015, 09:12:38 AM
I don't think it was meant to Herts, Steve was rubbing my nose in it ;D
Moi?
So it looks like every copy of that book bought is now owned by PD forum member?
I certainly did own a copy of that book - really liked back when I was in school.
Couldn't spot it on the book case at first, and wondered if I had got rid of it, when we moved a few years ago, but after a bit more looking spotted it on shelf :)
Its a bit basic - but it does try to cover a whole battle in a few pages.
Perhaps there's a subliminal message in it?
"You will buy Pendraken ... You will buy Pendraken ... You will buy Pendraken ..."
For me it would be the battle of Almansa.
The fact that the English were lead by a Frenchman & the French lead by an English makes it interesting. It was very large and extremely bloody for the period and the French victory meant the War would continue on for another 7 years.
50,000 troops wearing tricorns and spiffy uniforms would look brilliant.
isandlwanah.. Rorkes drift....Abu Klea,
To start with....
Oh and I never had that book....I now feel excluded...
Purely on a fantasy basis I would love to do Hoth; 28mm scale would do.
Could you imagine al all the AT-AT's?
Awesome :)
Right.
Spurred on by the picture of the book a few posts ago I looked to see if it was the same as a book I've got. It wasn't, so I decided to look my book up. I found it available on Amazon, but now I'm really confused. And I guess you will be too, if you read the description or look at the soft-cover edition. Though it may explain a few things.
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Military-Battles-Cyril-Falls/dp/0600016528/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=
"--This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title."
All things considered I'd think this was a good thing :)
Quote from: Fenton on 16 March 2015, 08:35:13 PM
So it looks like every copy of that book bought is now owned by PD forum member?
Must be, Dave's got it on his shelf as well I think...
Quote from: Leon on 16 March 2015, 10:28:18 PM
Must be, Dave's got it on his shelf as well I think...
that's right rub it in and make me feel worse :)
Quote from: Maenoferren on 16 March 2015, 10:31:36 PM
that's right rub it in and make me feel worse :)
If it's any consolation I don't own a copy either >:<
I did get it from the library a few times ;) ;D
So did I! ;D
Waterloo, for the pure pageantry of it.
Though I could see some of the Lord of the Rings fights as mentioned in the OP, for the pageantry, as well as the fact my little boy would eat it up.
V/R,
Jack
Fontenoy 1745, for the uniforms, or Eylau
Quote from: bigjackmac on 17 March 2015, 12:45:20 AM
Waterloo, for the pure pageantry of it.
Agreed.
This is partly why I don't do Napoleonics; I'd want to do it "properly", by which I mean: to a ridiculous degree.
Seeing 1745 written above has made me think Culloden.
The only battlefield that I have walked and possibly the only battle that I'd actually want to refight.
Yes, it's also featured in that book ;D
Quote from: RoyWilliamson on 17 March 2015, 10:00:27 AM
Seeing 1745 written above has made me think Culloden.
The only battlefield that I have walked and possibly the only battle that I'd actually want to refight.
Yes, it's also featured in that book ;D
Actually funny thing happened to me while walking the site. I went up there thinking I'd be more interested in the Jacobite side of things, but once on the 'field' and seeing the line of red flags (both starting battle lines are marked out with large flags - blue for the Jacobite forces, red for the Government forces) I was 100% biased towards Cumberland and his troops. I just find it an odd circumstance, as my feelings did a complete 180 degree turn-around when I reached the site.
Quote from: Upgraydd on 16 March 2015, 09:27:58 PM
For me it would be the battle of Almansa.
The fact that the English were lead...
I'm sure they'd insist they were steel, at least.