Gentlemen of the Forum.
Before we start, may I suggest we take a few moments in silent contemplation of the Dark Lord and his works. ^:)^
Shhhh! :-$ At the back! Fenton! Ithoriel! It'll be the casting pits for you!
Again!
Anyway. Gentlemen, I as you are aware am a solo wargamer. There are a number of reasons for this. Firstly, I can't be bothered to learn rule sets :-q , secondly because my condition often flares up and thirdly because of the incident at the Sheffield Triples in 1984. (
I know I shouldn't have got on the table, but it was the quickest way to get to him.)
This is fine. I have my own rules and they work. I use army lists to keep track of what's going on, but I want a bit more of a visual representation. I have settled on a system of marker bases placed around the unit. Now, I don't mean dice and I don't mean brightly coloured counters. They offend my aesthic sensibilities. For modern-ish warfare warfare, smoke/explosion type markers e.g.:
- "bullet spatter" - pinned
- yellow smoke - morale fail
- brown smoke - gone to ground
- black smoke - routed/retreating
- white smoke - new pope elected
This is all well and good, but I am pondering how to make this work in a pre-gunpowder affaire.
Any suggestions?
White smoke - Pope elected
Black - rout
Brown - shaken/change trousers
Yellow - disordered
Pink - annoyed
Red - furious
Green -jealous
Bullet splatter - under artillery fire
Beer splatter - Totty thread
Condition? You okay?
Arrow storm: pinned
Yellow shield: morale fail
Brown shield: gone to ground
Discarded weapons/shields: routed/retreating
White smoke: new Pope elected (some things you just can't change).
That's my 10p's worth :)
Quote from: getagrip on 14 March 2015, 10:01:37 AM
Condition? You okay?
Yeah. It's a silly form of agoraphobia. Tends to get worse in time of stress (like being put at threat of redundancy). Just means I'm not good in new places, particularly crowded places.
I like the coloured shields idea. Must give that a go.
Quote from: fsn on 14 March 2015, 10:26:53 AM
Yeah. It's a silly form of agoraphobia. Tends to get worse in time of stress (like being put at threat of redundancy). Just means I'm not good in new places, particularly crowded places.
I like the coloured shields idea. Must give that a go.
Nothing silly about agoraphobia, stress or mental health
at all! :)
My fave was the discarded weapons which I'm going to work on ;)
Too right about mental illness.
I've a mates wedding in two weeks, not sure how I'll cope.
Have a look at Warbases for interesting token ideas too!
Shaken - cocktail glass!
What about making single based banner/icon bearers with different colours for flags/icons and place them by the unit? Just write down wich colour banner/icon represents wich condition and you're good to go!
And i can only repeat, nothing silly about mental illness.
Casualty figures on pennies for hits/pinned/wavering/what ever!
Enthusiastic blokes charging (again on pennies) for troops that have gone out of control/impetuous.
White smoke for having fired first volley for horse & musket (if significant!).
Warbases do many shields and bits and bobs - really useful for many, many things!
Hit dials with an archer/crossbow/musketeers on to track ammo, or a casualty on to track hits.
Thanks for the support, chaps.
Single standard bearers also a nice idea.
That would look really good!
Nice little painting project too :)
Quote from: fsn on 14 March 2015, 09:52:39 AM
the incident at the Sheffield Triples in 1984. (I know I shouldn't have got on the table, but it was the quickest way to get to him.)
So at the Sheffield Triples in 1984
you were the table clutter :o :o ;D
Best of luck for Monday ;)
Little terrain items always look nice to me, so shields as mentioned above, little bases of rocks, a pile of ammo or a barrel (in our ECW range, code EC25), things like that.
Personally, I prefer small brightly coloured dice.
Small enough not to get picked up and rolled, bright enough to see from a decent distance.
I'm tired of losing troops because the marker I though was brown is actually a muddy shade of purple so the unit I thought was suppressed is actually hidden :o >:(
Quote from: Ithoriel on 15 March 2015, 09:07:59 AM
Personally, I prefer small brightly coloured dice.
Me too.
Anyone know where I can get 5mm dice?
Quote from: getagrip on 15 March 2015, 09:16:46 AM
Me too.
Anyone know where I can get 5mm dice?
Irregular and Magister Militum. The irregular ones can seem to have 2 x3's due to molding faults.
IanS
Quote from: ianrs54 on 15 March 2015, 09:34:30 AM
Irregular and Magister Militum. The irregular ones can seem to have 2 x3's due to molding faults.
IanS
I thank you :)
Quote from: ianrs54 on 15 March 2015, 09:34:30 AM
Irregular and Magister Militum. The irregular ones can seem to have 2 x3's due to molding faults.
IanS
And there not Av dice?
No , they just have a high proportion of miscasts (says the man whose group has been using them and weeding them out seemingly forever!).
Dice frames on unit bases are very handy for holding dice markers ;)
Quote from: toxicpixie on 15 March 2015, 10:20:18 AM
Dice frames on unit bases are very handy for holding dice markers ;)
This is what I want them for. I want use minibits 5mm frames but obviously need 5mm dice to go with them. MM seem to be the way to go :)
I use The Dice Shop (https://www.thediceshoponline.com/categories.asp) for most of the dice I get these days.
If they don't have one, you probably can't get a die with that many sides or numbered like that!
The picture shows them in action. Red dice shows the unit is part of the army of Lagash and currently gets a base 5 dice in combat, the green dice shows it has Attack orders. Units keep their current order unless routed or it gets changed by a commander in my rules.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 15 March 2015, 10:26:01 AM
I use The Dice Shop (https://www.thediceshoponline.com/categories.asp) for most of the dice I get these days.
If they don't have one, you probably can't get a die with that many sides or numbered like that!
Thanks Ith; they're brilliant :-bd
Job done!
That some serious cutting edge hardware there :D
Lovely Rapier stuff I presume Ithoriel?
What rules are you using for them?
All you need, boy, is a brisk walk round the quad - go and report to Matron after prep
(Look, this is the Pendraken Forum, somebody needs to be a little bit brutish and unkind)1
Leon was good enough to provide Sunjester and me with officers for WSS - individually mounted for 'First Fire' markers (ie unit hasn't fired) - I know that's gunpowder, and you specified pre, but its the idea. Pendraken also listened to sense and made dead horses. They also do dead ACW which we have painted up for WSS - you may find that the ACW clothing can be disguised with painting.
Also it is NOT WEIRD to match your marker uniforms to individual units.
Sunjester has recently also made some discarded shields for 28mm Lion Rampant.
1This is humour, and not an actual statement of position.
Sir! I think I got it wrong. I'm reporting that I went for a walk and briskly prepped Matron.
I do like the idea of "stragglers" individually mounted to show unit status in pre-gunpowder age. Possibly into the clip, clip, pop, pop age. My brmm brmm bang bang units are done on a 1:1 (i.e. 1 figure = 1 soldier) so that would look a little odd, but smoke markers serve perfectly well here.
Love that chariot unit Ith; really effective. :-bd
I'm working on a set of rules, for my own amusement, which I call "King of Kish." "King of Kish" was the title taken by Sumerian and Akkadian rulers who had control of enough of Mesopotamia to be top dog!
Armies are distinguished by the colour of the left hand die. The value shown on the die is the base number of dice thrown in combat, as units lose cohesion/ effectiveness that die ticks down until it reaches zero, at which point the unit routs. Commanders can allocate command points to rally routers or boost flagging cohesion.
Only the colour matters on the right hand die. Green is Attack, red is Defend, yellow is Manouevre, and so on. Orders remain the same until changed by a commander. A group of units all of which are in base contact with at least one other in the group can be ordered together. Disrupted battle-lines become increasingly unmanageable!
Army units are on 60mm square bases.
Quote from: Ithoriel link=topic=11698.msg156281#msg156281 date=1426441741
Army units are on 60mm square bases.
/quote]
How are the 5mm dice frames to deal with? They seem like they might be abit fiddly.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 15 March 2015, 11:29:35 AM
They also do dead ACW which we have painted up for WSS.
Also it is NOT WEIRD to match your marker uniforms to individual units.
I thought WSS figures especially British were supposed to be left unpainted. ;D
Yes IT IS WIERD, your outvoted 2 votes to one by Sunjester and I
Quote from: Ken on 15 March 2015, 06:24:48 PM
[quote author=Ithoriel link=topic=11698.msg156281#msg156281 date=1426441741
Army units are on 60mm square bases.
How are the 5mm dice frames to deal with? They seem like they might be abit fiddly.
So far, it's just been me and one other trying out the games so not a very representative sample! However, we've not found it to be a problem. To be fair, most of the units at the moment are a 60mm base with two 5mm dice frames and things like Skirmisher or Donkey Cart scrawled on them :)
It is fair to say the rules are evolving faster than the painted armies!
Quoteand briskly prepped Matron
No wonder why you don't want to go outside - when I said get a nurse from 'Carry on' I meant Hattie Jacques, not Barbara Windsor.
Something I trialled (and will be putting into full scale when I return to painting ACW) is a base for orders in They Couldn't hit an Elephant. The 'Attack'order is a triangle with charging figures, 'Engage' is a rectangle with 3 points (like a row of primary school houses) with firing men on, etc. Along the bottom is the Order name- I just flock the 'base' bit. The bases aren't the same size/shape to be confused with the actual bases, and the whole thing is kept near the relavent general.
For morale states I have a dead man on a penny for "Fightin' " and Stretcher bearers on a 2p for defeated.
Ignore 'Just another Oik" - his ideal army is Cybermen. And they still wouldn't get based.
I like those ideas. In BBB I am using a base of casualties for disruption, explosion for silenced gun, ammo boxes for out of ammo and base of routers to show spent.
I tend to use single figures on small bases which are different from the main unit basing convention to repressent various things, especially one off states.
Squires on foot with a flag the same as a unit's banner/main colour combo to record use of charge bonus.
SYW single musketeer to kep track of first volley, will also work for naps.
Dead/wounded to record casualties.
The problem with markers that stand behind units is that in big games they can easily be left behind, and there then follows a session of "was that with that, or was it with them?". Markers that sit on the bases are more secure but if they are dice they are limited in their potential meanings. The third option is to have a small area on the base that can be written on (preferably with something that can eventually be erased) which is a flexible and secure system. The "label" doesn't have to be white, mine are either green or dark blue, and they travel around with the units during the battle. The next step in the system (for 6mm Napoleonics actually) will be magnetic movement trays that incorporate a writing area at the rear for unit identity/particulars but which allow the units to change formation during the course of the game.
Quote from: Hertsblue on 16 March 2015, 10:12:59 AM
The problem with markers that stand behind units is that in big games they can easily be left behind, and there then follows a session of "was that with that, or was it with them?". Markers that sit on the bases are more secure but if they are dice they are limited in their potential meanings. The third option is to have a small area on the base that can be written on (preferably with something that can eventually be erased) which is a flexible and secure system. The "label" doesn't have to be white, mine are either green or dark blue, and they travel around with the units during the battle. The next step in the system (for 6mm Napoleonics actually) will be magnetic movement trays that incorporate a writing area at the rear for unit identity/particulars but which allow the units to change formation during the course of the game.
Makes perfect sense to me :)