I very often play large (6000+ points) games of Warmaster and, consequently, sometimes need to play with two armies on the same side (say 3500 Vampire Counts an 3500 Khemri).
I noticed a trend however, that combined forces were very easy to break when faced by a single army. The logic is that a player with one army can "pick on" one of the armies from the combined force, break it and then destroy the other.
As a response to this I've come up with the following:
1) Combined forces can select minimum troops rounding down and maximum troops rounding up eg: If I were playing 1500 points of Empire I could have two units of flagellants but would only have to pick two each of halberds and crossbows. The bias towards elites helps compensate for the lack of cohesion between the two armies.
2) The exception to this rule is wizards; the combined army should not contain any more than the prescribed limit eg: in a 6000 combined army, no more than 6 wizards (Khemri / Orcs notwithstanding but you can work this out pro-rata).
3) The combined breakpoint of the whole army is used rather than two separate ones eg: If my Vamps had a break of 15 and my Khemri 18 the break for the whole army would be 33 from either side (in practice this could mean one whole army is completely destroyed and the other barely touched. This would be an extreme example though; the reality is usually closer to 50/50).
4) And possibly the most contentious. When a general dies, all of that army's command goes with him and the whole army can now ne controlled by the remaining command. This could be abused by players who could select one weak general (say orc) deliberately get him killed so the other stronger command chain could take over. I would suggest not playing with people like this! The rule is meant to avoid one side being picked on to the point of complete collapse. It is still a massive blow however as, should the situation occur, your command is going to be spread thin.
So, any thoughts chaps?
We used combined base losses for morale but only allowed leaders to command their own troops. Can't remember what we were going to go if all the leaders in a force went - didn't happen! Otherwise it worked fine :)
I only put these rules in place because it became apparent the split force was at a massive disadvantage. Who tends to win the games where you use a split force or are both sides split?
We only played multi player per side each with a different army so it didn't make any odds who won :D
Iirc I think we let other "allied" leaders command troops who'd lost their own leaders but capped their CV at the max for the army under command. Ie if a High Elf @CV9 commanded Orc troops he'd only use CV7.
Quote from: toxicpixie on 05 February 2015, 09:16:10 AM
We only played multi player per side each with a different army so it didn't make any odds who won :D
Iirc I think we let other "allied" leaders command troops who'd lost their own leaders but capped their CV at the max for the army under command. Ie if a High Elf @CV9 commanded Orc troops he'd only use CV7.
Yeah, I thought about capping. Perhaps the commander should use either their own CV or the equivalent from the other army whichever is lower?
Yeah, sorry - that what we did, think I mangled it trying to be coherent on the phone !
Quote from: toxicpixie on 05 February 2015, 09:57:14 AM
Yeah, sorry - that what we did, think I mangled it trying to be coherent on the phone !
;)
We either gave the two armies a slight advantage in points (eg two 1250/1500 point armies versus a 2000 point one) or took the "who ever told you life was fair?" approach :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 05 February 2015, 05:11:36 PM
We either gave the two armies a slight advantage in points (eg two 1250/1500 point armies versus a 2000 point one) or took the "who ever told you life was fair?" approach :)
;D Yep, there's an argument for that too :)
Why not simply divide the 'single' army into two, each with their own General ?
For the purposes of the game, they count as two entirely separate armies
(even though they will be the same race). Eg. Two Empire States fighting
together against allied enemies.
This way, both sides have two allied armies and you don't have to worry
about special rules.
Just a thought.
Phil
Quote from: Glorfindel on 05 February 2015, 06:22:11 PM
Why not simply divide the 'single' army into two, each with their own General ?
For the purposes of the game, they count as two entirely separate armies
(even though they will be the same race). Eg. Two Empire States fighting
together against allied enemies.
This way, both sides have two allied armies and you don't have to worry
about special rules.
Just a thought.
Phil
Probelem is when facing a single enemy; it's really easy to isolate one army and annihilate it. Our battles with mixed against single were too one sided until we tinkered with the rules a little. The long and the short of it is that our games are much more even now but but, more importantly, we enjoy them ;)
Surely that is what divide and conquer is all about?
Quote from: Maenoferren on 05 February 2015, 06:42:27 PM
Surely that is what divide and conquer is all about?
True, but not fun being on the end of it game after game ;)
Your points seems Ok to me. I did not play enough multi battles to have a clear idea, but your rules seems OK.
Once we have a 3 player game. Edmund, Enbaji and myslef. Enbaji is the player experience player so he suggests to play following:
Ed: 1000 points of kislev + campaing territories
Enbaji: 1000 points of kislev + ca,paing territories
Me: playing two different armies of chaos. Each army of 1000 points. Two generals, and independent armylist campaing territores. Like playing two armies.
He said that in his experience that is the best way of play 3 player warmaster.
The game was Invasion Citadel of Chaos. The mood/inspiration of the battle were KursK Citadel operation. Where Kislev wrwagons faces a long horde of chaos chariots in a steppe.
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=5049.0
That would work because you have 2, 1 thousand point armies rather than 1, 2 thousand pointer.
Nice batrep ;)