thinking about getting into the medieval period and looking for some rule recommendations, not DBA, they must be easy to play, base removal preferred, army size roughly 150 figures max each side,
never gamed medieval before so know nothing about the rules available, and I will be using Pendraken figures :)
any help appreciated
I have played a couple of games of Sword and Spear Hundred Years War Games and am pretty impressed.
http://polkovnik.moonfruit.com/sword-spear/4583102656
Basic Impetus is free and plays pretty well also
Hail Cheesy for early Middle Ages, maybe?
I have played an Agincourt refight using Pike and Shotte and it worked well and was great fun
Ian
Quote from: old smokie on 11 December 2014, 05:05:56 PM
thinking about getting into the medieval period and looking for some rule recommendations, not DBA, they must be easy to play, base removal preferred, army size roughly 150 figures max each side,
never gamed medieval before so know nothing about the rules available, and I will be using Pendraken figures :)
any help appreciated
HOTT; small armies, troop types translate to medieval easily. No need to study medieval history, warfare or chivalry before playing - just get in there! Not for the dedicated 'true to history' gamer but it is fun. :d
Quote from: old smokie on 11 December 2014, 05:05:56 PM
thinking about getting into the medieval period and looking for some rule recommendations, not DBA, they must be easy to play, base removal preferred, army size roughly 150 figures max each side,
Quote from: SV52 on 11 December 2014, 09:09:52 PM
HOTT; small armies, troop types translate to medieval easily. No need to study medieval history, warfare or chivalry before playing - just get in there! Not for the dedicated 'true to history' gamer but it is fun. :d
HOTT is DBA with ridiculous units and a badly tacked on magic system. DBA is easy to play with base removal and an army size of less than 150 figures a side so ticks all the boxes, not sure what you have against it? Perhaps an outline of why "not DBA" might help inform suggestions?
I recommend warmaster ruleset.
Quote from: jchaos79 on 12 December 2014, 07:13:06 AM
I recommend warmaster ruleset.
Would be my preference too, to be honest.
I would look at Impetus, use 6cm wide bases for 10mm, about 10-12 figures per base for close order foot so an army works out at 120 to 150 figures. Have a look at Basic Impetus as suggested by Fenton.
I am also trying out the Sword and Spear rules which can use the same bases and a similar sized army. These rules also seem to play quite quick.
thanks for the info, :) I shall take a look at Impetus, Sword and Spear and warmaster rulesets
tried DBA before didn't like it, it was like trying to interpret a foreign language also a lack of diagrams and examples put me right off, some people love the rules, I did not
I'm a huge fan of the Warmaster set but they're out of print, although I believe you can get a PDF version from the interweb, courtesy of Long John Silver.
The medieval book is probably the weakest of the three volumes but providing you play in period the anomalies aren't noticeable.
There is quite a bit of Warmaster stuff here
http://www.ricks-warmaster.com/
Warmaster fantasy was released by GW as a PDF. It's no longer directly available from them but pdf copies are legitimate.
I'd recommend Hail Ceaser over WM. HC feels like an updated version of WM, with many if the fiddly bits removed. Both can suffer from too many units doing nothing or the odd unit zooming around.
Quote from: old smokie on 12 December 2014, 08:19:21 AM
thanks for the info, :) I shall take a look at Impetus, Sword and Spear and warmaster rulesets
tried DBA before didn't like it, it was like trying to interpret a foreign language also a lack of diagrams and examples put me right off, some people love the rules, I did not
DBA 3.0 has recently been released, it
suffers from has the same writing style but has diagrams and several hundred army lists.
The first printing has sold out and the first reprint will apparently be available shortly
I am seriously considering getting a copy but will probably organise a game or two with someone who has a copy before I do
Field of Glory v.2
Use the same size bases as 15mm figures just mount 50% more figures on the base.
A 400 point army has about twice the number of bases (24) about as a DBA army (12 bases).
Dba is a problem in 10mm because of the pack sizes.
Unless Leon would do army packs. The idea is to make each base a diorama, in particular the command bases.
The best way if he won't is to look at the contents of an army pack, and see how many you can use.
You may be able to buy an army book cheap on Amazon or eBay.
If you have an opponent in mind buy a pack each and use the lot to begin with. Don't worry about army points.
I'd throw in another vote for Impetus - cracking set for pointy stick era games!
The Basic version is free and plays well too, but not really is worth a bash at the full version.
Bloody Barons (Peter Pig) gives a very good Wars of the Roses style game for relatively little outlay. Two bases together and you've also got units for Impetus.
All suggested rules set are top notch, but Id go with 'Seasons of War' from Red Wyvern Games Here's links to a rules review and AAR:
http://grandscalewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/seasons-of-war-review-aar-pt1.html (http://grandscalewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/seasons-of-war-review-aar-pt1.html)
http://grandscalewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-armies-muster-sow-review-pt2.html (http://grandscalewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-armies-muster-sow-review-pt2.html)
http://grandscalewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/bloodshed-beyond-walls-of-acre-sow-aar.html (http://grandscalewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/bloodshed-beyond-walls-of-acre-sow-aar.html)
Regards
Jason. :)
Dan Mersey's Dux Bellorum's a good, simple game but set for Dark Ages, so early Medeival.
There's a Dux Bellorum conversion here for Wars of the Roses. http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/dux-bellorum-wars-of-roses-unofficial.html (http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/dux-bellorum-wars-of-roses-unofficial.html)
He also wrote Lion Rampant, although that's more a Medeival skirmish game.
I struggled with Impetus to be honest. They never quite worked for me.
Field of Glory is good. Used to play it a lot, but i went off the rules in a huge way.
Warlord Games Hail Caesar is jolly good fun, if a little 'loose' around the wargaming midriff. They're sort of like a less fiddly Warmaster ruleset.
I'm a big fan of Warmaster, with I think of those I've played Impetus is a good 2nd (Although it does suffer from the translation, the main test mechanic is horrifically explained in the rules, but is really simple if you can work your way through it in another way.)
The other set I love is TooFatLardies Dux Britainarrium although that is more focused on Post Roman Britain, the mechanics are simple enough to shift into a different era.
Quote from: toxicpixie on 03 January 2015, 01:28:56 AM
I'd throw in another vote for Impetus - cracking set for pointy stick era games!
The Basic version is free and plays well too, but not really is worth a bash at the full version.
I was discussing this elsewhere and received this reply...
Where to start....army lists are nonsense, but can be ignored obviously. Cavalry seem to be way too powerful when attacking close-order infantry and longbows are only marginally inferior to MG 42. I was considering giving them a go with my Mongols etc... So any help greatly appreciated.
In Impetus, if you can get heavy cavalry on the flank of anything they're gone. However they lose their Impetus bonus if they charge spears and likewise if you can charge them instead. Otherwise all it takes is causing 1 casualty or flanking them and again they lose their Impetus Bonus. (I have a Teutonic army I use for Impetus so I'm well aware my heavy cavalry isn't the godlike creature some make it out to be unless I can get the better of my opponent positionally.) They are generally also impetuous which means that they can be lured to where you want them to be by offering up an inviting target, you can then start to take them in the flank etc and they're a lost cause.
Longbows that are in a defended position or even behind stakes are a royal pita but the limit on their numbers means that you can partially ignore them and concentrate on the rest of their forces. But sure expect to die if you just charge headlong into them.
Much worse is the machine gun effect that is light cavalry armies. There is an intriguing exploit in the rules that simulates the swarming effect that is sometimes attributed to bow armed cavalry armies where they target a section of the army and concentrate all of their fire on that one spot, it's one of these things that players seem to be either delighted or infuriated by when it's used. However if it's not used and you're sensible about not getting down to measuring to the degree or MM then you'll probably find them okay.
What Genom said :)
Big VBU high Impetus knights are scary but will come a cropper against decent bows, which then lets your decent foot get in & duff them up. It's a really good rock-paper-scissors approach and much more subtle than most, and can almost feel the evolutions in historical warfare churn as you play.
We've played all sorts and it's different every period and you get a real sense of the transition of units and tactics - I haven't personally used it for WotR era stuff but reading a few reports & talking to others it should work nicely. The bow and the bill work together and you husband your cavalry as they'll get clobbered if you just throw them in. But commit at the decisive point when they're already wavering and you might well break them.
Across period not many armies get Longbow A - that's effectively limited to 100YW English (and a few French IIRC) and some in the WotR, depending on how well trained and enthusiastic the factions particular troops are. They're massively dangerous if they get the chance to shoot at point blank. And they're the only people who can if charged and on opportunity - everything else uses the normal range factors, Longbow A can use the horrific pout blank ratings. Combined with stakes and some solid bills they're very nasty. But then, if both sides have them no one side has the advantage :)
For Wars of the Roses I would recommend 'A Coat of Steel' and 'A Crown of Paper' both by Perfect Captain and both totally free.
ACOS is the battle rules and ACOP is the campaign rules. I haven't played the campaign yet but the rules are excellent. Because they are tailored for this war they are a lot better than the various other generic, lack lustre rules mentioned - at least in my opinion.
The downloads are at the bottom of this page - http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/request.html and this page is info - http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/acop.html