Apart from the atrocious sales pitch... :o
How much to do this in 10mm Leon ;) ?
http://www.michtoy.com/00_pdfs_blog/WW1armydeals-US.pdf (http://www.michtoy.com/00_pdfs_blog/WW1armydeals-US.pdf)
What do you have
2 tanks @£3 each - £6
2 platoons of infantry £4.50 each, so £9
some officers say £2
2 guns - £3
4 HMGs - £6
2 ATRs - £3
I make that £29
But do Pendraken do the WWI Infantry gun?
The add-ons would be far cheaper too, £4.50 for a platoon, and £6 for two more tanks.
I'm really not sure about breaking WWI platoons down into 4 man fire teams. By late war they were operating in sections, but at around the 10-12 man level
And we better not even go near each German 'company' having a pair of A7Vs!!!
Genius Fred! ;D
What's better is that if you get to the bottom of their PDF you can buy some shatter woods and muddy ground for $29 - sounds a bargain!!
Actually their lists would make a nice army pack for Pendraken, at the £25 level.
Quote from: fred 12df on 08 June 2014, 09:35:12 PM
And we better not even go near each German 'company' having a pair of A7Vs!!!
There were 3 A7Vs in the famous clash at Villers-Bretonneux, though only "Nixe" seems to have made a fight of it, the other two retreating when engaged by Miller's MkV Male. So not too outrageous.
But sadly you're right Pendraken don't seem to do the 76.2mm IG just the 77MM FG.
I think I'd be willing to make do with a second pair of field guns sooner than pay two hundred dollars or more. Even with the current exchange rate.
Of course it's fine to use an historical scenario - but what is strange is that they have chosen this most untypical of engagements to build their army packs on. Rather than using more typical forces and offering the tanks as add-ons to create the scenario.
I would suggest they chose this battle so both sides can have tanks
As far as I'm concerned this is just World War One Warhammer so the continuation of FoW's overemphasis on "hero" models and wunderwaffe models comes as no surprise at all.
Seconded. This company is on the same sympathy level as the Evil Empire. No. As far as I am concerned for such mass level games Pendraken 10mm or even go to 6mm. And to top it off, Pendraken already has all the models I would need including the Tank Gun and the Pickelhaube infantry.
I was sure it was a send-up when I first read it. I'm still not entirely convinced.
If it is a send up it's extremely well done, but won't wash with me as I'm not a FOW fan.
If it is a send up it is done exactly in the style of FoW documents, and by a good designer. I had a look on the WI website for any further clues, but was distracted by their D-Day write up.
This starts really nicely, good historical overview, showing where all the attacking and defending divisions were across the 80 miles or so of Normandy. Then has a scenario, and battle report, where on a 6x8' table they fight a beach landing, with forces from a british infantry division, a US infantry division, British Paras, US Airborne, 2 German Panzer divisions, and 2 german infantry divisions. This is what looses me completely of FoW - at one level they present it as a skirmish game, and at another as a Divisional level game with the type and variety of forces they introduce. Considering each of these 'divisional' forces consists of a couple of platoons of infantry - I don't know why they just don't say a stand is a company and be done with it.
And then there are the US armoured jeeps attacking a column of Pz IVs!! Again I know these jeeps did exist - but they weren't that common, and I'm not sure they were air-landed on D-Day. It seems that they want to use the history as a background story - then just put loads of 'cool' toys on the table.
Quote from: fred 12df on 09 June 2014, 01:22:27 PM
This is what looses me completely of FoW - at one level they present it as a skirmish game, and at another as a Divisional level game with the type and variety of forces they introduce. Considering each of these 'divisional' forces consists of a couple of platoons of infantry - I don't know why they just don't say a stand is a company and be done with it.
Same problem I had with Warhammer/ Warhammer 40K tbh
Being one of the loudest critics of Warhammer 40K I daresay a lot depends on the community.
Me for instance have almost convinced a regular player of a "sane" listbuilding and together with others I am writing a ruleset that lets you use 40K armies. Basically 40K how it should be and we will add free supplements to adjust 40K (and other) armies so you can field them in this new ruleset.
Not ALL about 40K is bad but the bad parts and the motivation for including them (more sales) are a conduct of business I cannot endorse. That's why I am very much supporting smalller companies rather tham the main one (GW, Battlefront, PP...)
QuoteThe panzer is a new and unstoppable weapon. Our A7V is
more powerful, faster, and better armoured than Tommy's
tanks. These steel beasts will break the British frontline,
opening the way to victory.
I think they actually built 7 but I wonder how many FoW gamers will field? Also, given the poor ground clearance and that the hull overhung the tracks at the front I wonder what the breakdown/bogging rules will be?
Quote from: DanJ on 10 June 2014, 02:07:15 PM
I think they actually built 7 but I wonder how many FoW gamers will field? Also, given the poor ground clearance and that the hull overhung the tracks at the front I wonder what the breakdown/bogging rules will be?
21 were built. 14 is the largest number committed to an offensive - of which Villers-Bretonneux was part.
Biltz's "Nixe" took 6 hits from the 6pdrs of Miller's MkV apparently but seems to have been put out of action by toppling over while manouevring for position in the broken terrain.
I'm tempted by Oddzial Osmy's WW1 simply because for £3 I could deploy all the A7Vs the Germans ever managed to get into action in one place!
Endorsing OO as great stuff and fantastic at the scales offered.
Quote21 were built. 14 is the largest number committed to an offensive - of which Villers-Bretonneux was part.
Thank you, I stand corrected, I've got one Pendraken model of the A7V so may have to get a couple more, just for historical accuracy you understand :D
Well it seems the leak was right...
http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4507
I don't know why, but I find the Battlefront WWI offering a bit depressing!
Of all the things they could have done from 1914, cavalry actions, fluid infantry actions, armoured cars and the like, they pick one action from 1918! I realise that it's pitched as the first proper tank vs tank action but even so!
sorry!
Quote from: freddy326 on 19 June 2014, 11:31:21 AM
I don't know why, but I find the Battlefront WWI offering a bit depressing!
Of all the things they could have done from 1914, cavalry actions, fluid infantry actions, armoured cars and the like, they pick one action from 1918! I realise that it's pitched as the first proper tank vs tank action but even so!
sorry!
No need to apologise on their behalf ;)
Quote from: freddy326 on 19 June 2014, 11:31:21 AM
Of all the things they could have done from 1914, cavalry actions, fluid infantry actions, armoured cars and the like, they pick one action from 1918!
you just have to wait for the 20+ Supplement Books,Scenario Boxes,Introductions Sets and 2 Player Starter Sets then :-t 8-}
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on 20 June 2014, 12:05:00 AM
you just have to wait for the 20+ Supplement Books,Scenario Boxes,Introductions Sets and 2 Player Starter Sets then :-t 8-}
OR you could wait for them to whip out an all in one package with all the supplements and crap for a mere 220£ like gw did =P~ 8-} 8-}
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000-Librarium?_requestid=8288828
SOooooooo, at 1,5 for infantry and 2,6 for a tank/vehicle with pendraken, that 220 gets you , lets say:
40 packs of infantry 60£
60 tanks 156£
4£ leftover for beer ;D
Much more value oppossed to 10 books that will be obsolete within the next year or so !
Quote from: petercooman on 20 June 2014, 05:44:18 AM
4£ leftover for beer ;D
You wouldn't get much for that in England, Peter, :(
Quote from: Hertsblue on 20 June 2014, 09:00:02 AM
You wouldn't get much for that in England, Peter, :(
Sorry bout that, in belgium you'd probably get a six pack, depending on the £ to € rate :-\
Quote from: petercooman on 20 June 2014, 09:07:41 AM
Sorry bout that, in belgium you'd probably get a six pack, depending on the £ to € rate :-\
Now I want Hoegaarden or Jupiler after reading that
Quote from: Fenton on 20 June 2014, 09:39:47 AM
Now I want Hoegaarden or Jupiler after reading that
Now the funny part about that, i think it's about 7-8 years since i drank beer. ;D
I'm an absolut and eristoff man myself!
Never was much impressed with FoW stuff so I've never bothered to get involved with it. (I like the old WRG Infantry Action WW II Rules meself). I know FoW comes from NZ and so shipping costs etc. add cost, but other companies are doing the same stuff much cheaper. I count myself extremely lucky to be living in the UK with so much available choice should I wish to take advantage.
Have to admit that if I was interested I'd go 10mm anyway, but post-1930 just don't float my boat.
Quote from: Subedai on 20 June 2014, 08:34:30 PM
Never was much impressed with FoW stuff so I've never bothered to get involved with it. (I like the old WRG Infantry Action WW II Rules meself). I know FoW comes from NZ and so shipping costs etc. add cost, but other companies are doing the same stuff much cheaper. I count myself extremely lucky to be living in the UK with so much available choice should I wish to take advantage.
Haven't been made in NZ for a while now :( :( :( Produced close to FierceKitty last I heard
Their boxes read "Designed in New Zealand. Made in Malaysia". Unless it's changed in the two years since I last bought any.
Quote from: Hertsblue on 21 June 2014, 08:18:17 AM
Their boxes read "Designed in New Zealand. Made in Malaysia". Unless it's changed in the two years since I last bought any.
Thanks, couldn't remember if it was Malaysia or Thailand, hence the slightly vague comment ;)
Last I bought were made in NZ and diverted my son from buying from the Evil Empire :)
I'm reliably informed that certain of the Battlefront marketing personnel originally worked for they who must not be named.
Quote from: Hertsblue on 21 June 2014, 09:45:55 PM
I'm reliably informed that certain of the Battlefront marketing personnel originally worked for they who must not be named.
well,some of them must be working for Warlord Games now :d :d
I've been playing WW2 since the 1970s and have tried nearly every set produced between then and now. Currently my pals and I play FoW, because, if you leave the competition list mentality behind (which mentality is what most of your negative FoW comments above actually refer to) it's a good solid WW2 game.
None of us HAVE to buy anything, a lot of us like to buy hobby related stuff.
It's all horses for courses.
I've always considered this a friendly forum but if this had been the first set of posts I'd encountered on here I'd have left pretty quickly!
Just saying my 2ps worth, YMMV.
In that case, Moderators, please can we have a thread lock/kill?
Yours
Will
Quote from: mad lemmey on 24 June 2014, 10:26:20 AM
In that case, Moderators, please can we have a thread lock/kill?
Yours
Will
erm, why?
I'm not sure what Julesav has read but:
this is about WWI, WWII or how FOW plays isn't mentioned, competition lists aren't mentioned, but there are comments concerning marketing, pricing etc. If you enjoy playing FOW then that's good!
FWIW I got back into wargaming because of FOW after a 20 year gap, just as they stopped their previous early war stuff >:(
My comment was to do with what they had chosen as their WWI release nothing else!
regards
Freddy326
Sorry. I was meaning that if we are getting unfriendly, then should we go on...
This is a friendly forum, I didn't mean to start a row.
I love BF sculpts, I like the rules, I just cannot see myself doing WWI, at that cost.
That's all.
:-[
What us, unfriendly??? Never!
Quote from: julesav on 24 June 2014, 09:43:47 AM
I've been playing WW2 since the 1970s and have tried nearly every set produced between then and now. Currently my pals and I play FoW, because, if you leave the competition list mentality behind (which mentality is what most of your negative FoW comments above actually refer to) it's a good solid WW2 game.
None of us HAVE to buy anything, a lot of us like to buy hobby related stuff.
It's all horses for courses.
I've always considered this a friendly forum but if this had been the first set of posts I'd encountered on here I'd have left pretty quickly!
Just saying my 2ps worth, YMMV.
But but .... we mentioned beer ;)
Sorry if anything came over as unfriendly, that was not the meaning! I too find the battlefront stuff very nice, but just a tad too expensive for me. Also the constant dissapearing of box sets is a bit annoying.
There have been two occasions where i decided to take the plunge and buy something from them, only to see they stopped selling the item when i finally saved up to buy it :-\
I too play FoW reasonably frequently. I have nothing against the models or figures - I own enough of them. The rules are not the best I've ever played, but certainly don't deserve the negativity heaped on them in various quarters. The marketing is aimed squarely at a defined sector, and owes a lot to to the example of the only wargames company ever quoted on the UK stockmarket. How you choose to interpret that is down to the individual.
Like everyone has said Friendly forum
But should we not talk about FOW in the Fantasy section LOL ;D ;D ;D ;D
Very drole Mart :D. ;)
Quote from: Hertsblue on 21 June 2014, 08:18:17 AM
Their boxes read "Designed in New Zealand. Made in Malaysia". Unless it's changed in the two years since I last bought any.
I stand corrected.
I also did not intend to rock any boats, it was just my personal opinion. So if any are rocking then I apologise.
Quote from: mart678 on 24 June 2014, 04:19:42 PM
Like everyone has said Friendly forum
But should we not talk about FOW in the Fantasy section LOL ;D ;D ;D ;D
I refer to FOW as a very good game in a WWII setting, including to Phil Yates, the author ;) But I've known Phil for a very long time :)
Hi guys
This forum has always seemed especially friendly to me, I just thought that the preceding posts were veering away from that.
Having a go at the marketing strategy of the most successful WW2 gaming system just seems pointless to me, the success talks for itself here. Every system has players who try for 'super-lists' or super-armies', that's a player thing not a rules/system thing imho.
I didn't mean to offend, everyone has a favourite rules system and favourite minis just like everyone has a favourite meal.
Well said.
Steak, blue, please.
Quote from: julesav on 25 June 2014, 10:32:35 AM
Having a go at the marketing strategy of the most successful WW2 gaming system just seems pointless to me, the success talks for itself here. Every system has players who try for 'super-lists' or super-armies', that's a player thing not a rules/system thing imho.
The rules looked okay when i looked at them, but they really didn't take my fancy, so nothing to complain about there, just preferance.
I guess i enjoy BKC II too much to change over!
I tried FOW and then sold all my WWII stuff. Great history to study and read, but I just cannot seem to play it, whatever the rules.