Painting Comp Feedback

[Steve J]

I completely understand the point, and it's something we've discussed briefly behind the scenes.  There's a lot of other factors to consider though, so it's a tricky one to discuss.  The main one being that a lot of the folk who've entered who might be less active on the Forum are still very active customers, many of them on a weekly/monthly basis.  Is the Painting Comp a Forum thing, or a broader Pendraken one?  If we call it a forum event, then the point becomes much more important, however as a wider Pendraken competition, then anyone who has contributed by buying figures is eligible to enter.

A couple of very good points there Leon. For me, I've always thought of it as a 'forum competition', for no other reason than it is open to forum members. I hadn't considered the 'silent members' who are much better customers for Pendraken than my humble self. I don't think there is an easy way to resolve this, but I think it is something that needs looking at if it puts members (such as myself) off from entering.

A few thoughts are:
- Having a pro-painter category (but then what counts as a pro-painter?).
- Having a minimum number of posts per annum (but this could disqualify new members who just happen to have joined at the painting comp time, but intend to be 'active contributors' to the forum).
- Have a diorama category. This could seperate the 'average wargames base' from the stunning one off entries (hopefully!).
- Maybe the Winners of the previous year sit out the current one, but the downside would be we wouldn't see their wonderful work.

As I've already said, I don't see an easy way out for this.

[old hunter]

I'm a fan of war games, but my fun is to paint miniatures. I started painting 10 years and now it's been almost 5 decades. My father painted paintings with all kind of colors, oil, tempera , acrylic, ink, and it was very good . In fact he was able to paint a Picasso, and his copy was identical to, a real camera that passed from  eyes to  hands. All this to tell you something I inherited from my father. Last year I participated in the competition . I have not been rewarded, but that does not matter . With me there was also my brother in law , a famous painter and sculptor of international renown. He saw the pictures of the competition and was astonished when he learned of the winners.
Why do you say this? because I think you're right , but at the same time I also say that Pendraken right. You have to quard with a wider vision , marketing , tells you nothing ? but I think you know very well what I mean.
Well all this for let you know that this year I participated in the competition , I do not care to win, but just let me know , nothing else. Surely there will be people who will appreciate my work , some do not , but nobody will take away the satisfaction of seeing my pictures , good or bad they are, I'm not a photographer , publicate .
However, I understand you and I invite you to participate in the next edition .
I forgot , sorry for my english .
Florindo...

[Nosher]

Have to say that I agree with Tiny on his OP.

I've entered every year but this and didn't dream I had any chance of winning but entered into the spirit with full aplomb and have watched the competition go from strength to strength. The entries year on year get better and better and are a fabulous marketing tool for spreading the gospel about Pendraken. I really like the fact that the prize contributors come from across the wargaming spectrum - neat trick TEAM PD, spread the loving thats what I say!

I didn't enter this year as I haven't painted anything 10mm wise, although I have made the occassional purchase - mainly mini-bits in the last year. Yes I still have a veritable mountain of Pendraken Loveliness but as I have posted elsewhere I'm just not 'feeling the love' for wargaming this year.

The winners each year have been outstanding efforts and I applaud each and every one of them but as Tiny says it would be nice to hear a bit more from them even if its to write an article on their entry - how they got inspiration, what methods they use and better still how they manage to photo their minis so beautifully...

There does seem to be a distinct growth in professional looking entries with superb montages. Personally I'd like to see these montages dropped and each entry only receive one photo and that to be simple - no logos, no montage, no photoshopping etc all of which (like good marketing should) captures the eye/holds the attention/grabs the headlines.

I run a wide range of competitions and awards events and am a fiercely competitive sportsman - after all there aren't any prizes for coming second.... so i know how difficult it is finding balance, even equity. However I trust 100% in the integrity of PD team and the various Judges all of whom know far more about business and painting that I will ever be capable of understanding.

It would be good to see some of the thoughts posted above taken into consideration in the future - which it looks like Leon is already aware of and is thinking about.

[Ithoriel]

It's a painting competition, surely what's important is how good you are at painting.

OK so it's an online painting competition so how good you are at photography also has a bearing.

Do we really want the forum cluttered up with comments, inane or bland, just so some poor sod can rack up his quota of posts? Don't we generate enough rubbish as it is? 

Do we really want to penalise those who are busy, shy or temperamentally taciturn?

From Pendraken's point of view it must be better if, when people search for "Pendraken" online, they find beautifully painted and well shot images and not some slightly out-of-focus wargaming equivalent of a holiday snap. No matter how often the poster comments on the forum or how often they buy "Ooh! Shiny!" from the company.

I'd rather see brilliant pieces entered by professional painters and lose out in the competition than win a prize and lose the inspiration and motivation they provide.

I have a fifty quid compact camera and a graphics package that came free with my previous printer and my painting is workmanlike but not brilliant. I don't expect to win* anything but I certainly haven't let myself down with my entries. To me that's what matters.

Perhaps I'm a relic of a bygone age but for me it really is not the winning but the taking part that matters.

Bring 'em all on and give me something to aspire to!

Mike


*Dear judges please don't take this to mean I don't WANT to win! 

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Hold Hunter has a point.

Also, so does everyone...

My opinion, which will be as wrong as my personal politics and choice of football team, is entirely mine.

Here we go...

I love this forum.
I only enter entries painted in February (apart from army threads) to the competition as I know how good the other entries will be. I hold a vain hope that one day I might place.

To me the purpose of the comp is
a) to show off (I'm narcissistic)
b) so everyone else, no matter howmany posts, can show their talents and what they enjoy, no matter how good they are.
c) to draw out the silent majority who don't regularly post to show what they do. These are the people who enjoy Pendraken products, but don't want to read our pages of banter.
d) Its great publicity for a great company.
e) Shrewsbury Town and somewhere to the left of Trotsky, before you ask!

[kev1964]

Some very good points chap's and a difficult one to manage. I am as most of you know, a pro painter, unfortunately i dont game so am unable to comment on a lot of posts so can only really contribute to the visual side of the forum. I can see and understand all points made.  I got my inspiration and uniform knowledge from  Dazza's great works on here and hopefully have given the same to other people in return, not just to show off. I'd like to think i have helped a few people on the way and am always here to help, i dont know if their are more pro painters on here but i would be happy to sit out the competitions in the future and just stick to posting in the threads. The competition for me,(as it should be), is just great fun, not just going in to win but to see all the great work and showcase what is possible in 10mm.


kev

[OldenBUA]

Some other ideas that spring to mind while reading this. It has been my impression (but I could be wrong) that a number of those who entered the competition, but don't participate on the forum much come from countries where English is not the primary language. My thinking is that this fact alone could be reason enough. If you take a step back, you will find that this forum is not the easiest to participate in for any non-UK residents. Given all the in-jokes, slang, discussion of local events and topics and what-not, and I'm certain many will feel a little more than bewildered if coming here from abroad. But to me, it is the Pendraken painting competition, not the Pendraken Forum painting competition. So participation in the forum should never be mandatory in my opinion.
A second point, maybe all those who aren't very active on the Forum spend their time honing their painting skills instead? I for one am quite sure that all the time spent here (34 days and counting) detracts from the time I spend at the painting desk. So, maybe some people would like to spend their free time painting and/or gaming, rather than spend time on the forum?

One idea could be to move the competition away from the forum, by hosting all entries on the Pendraken website. There could still be discussion on the forum ofcourse. (Maybe on the main site as well?) Moving to the main site would also make a great showcase for Pendraken Miniatures.

Alex

[sebigboss79]

I am with the notion to make entering the competition depending on active membership BUT where would one draw the line? Who would keep note of members activity in the previous year?

There will always be people only up for grabs and others just for the fun of it. I would leave it to the judges to give points not only according to skill but also according to "soft factors". I am confident our judges are wise enough to
make a good balance between the factors and come to an agreement.

Just my thoughts.

[FierceKitty]

Who has time to keep a record of my member's activity? And what if one of their husbands found out?

[sebigboss79]

Who has time to keep a record of my member's activity? And what if one of their husbands found out?

Exactly as I say: Such venture is futile.

[sakura]

i haveny posted much as you can see
i entered with no chance of winning i
i entered for fun and to show what i do
its a competition so any member should be able to enter
some of the posts here are ridiculous so would they count?
top totty is oldmen porn really so does that count?
come on guys dont turn into tmp
btwi would like publicly to thank dave and leon for arranging a satisfactory ending to my issue with the mongols
gentlemen both and typical of the better elements here
i buy a reasonable amount i think

[fred.]

I don't think any link to posting (or not) should matter for the painting comp.

While the prizes are very nice, I'm not sure that they are that valuable that someone is going to decide to spend a lot of time on a painting comp entry, if they don't already have an interest in 10mm and Pendraken.

The skill level has definitely risen - and this year I did hesitate before posting my stuff. And it has to be said didn't get round to doing anything particularly for the comp, just displaying stuff I had worked on during the last year.

But I am musing about doing a diorama for next year (if someone could remind me around Nov it would be good) - Kev's artillery base looks particularly great. I have also been using bigger bases this year for my gaming units and like the way that you can make a much more interesting unit, than with the 40x20 warmaster base, which is crammed with troops.

[fred.]

i entered for fun and to show what i do
its a competition so any member should be able to enter
some of the posts here are ridiculous so would they count?
top totty is oldmen porn really so does that count?
come on guys dont turn into tmp

That too.

Although I may substitute the word many for some on line 3

[fsn]

Well said Sakura. (Except the bit about "oldmen porn". That's just rude.) I have no problem with "cadets" entering the painting comps. As long as it benefits the Dark Lord's purposes and enterprises we (the hair in the Pendraken plughole) can surely applaud the efforts of everyone who enters?

[hetairoi]

I didn´t organize the competition and it´s only my second year participating, but I think that it is a PAINTING competition, not a FORUM competition. With the painting competition we can see what a painter (proffesional or not) could do with these lovely miniatures. I would lie if I said I don´t want to win, but it´s also true that I have not painted anything specially for the competition. All my entries are related with my actual 10mm projects: Magnesia & Lord of the Rings. As I said, the best part of the competition is the push I get for advance in my projects.

In the other way, a forum competition would also be great, something like The Legend of Four Painters or so... a competition were we could see how people advance on thier projects.

I agree with some points already said:
- Winners at least should write a post explaining their entri or answering people´s questions.
- There is no sense on a "two pics" limit if we could make a collage... (shame on me!). However, I like to see various angles of a figure
- Love the diorama idea!

About  the participation on the forum, I´m afraid I´m not a "forum-man"... sadly I don´t have enought time. Also, as OldenBUA said, english is not my first language. Seriously guys, I cant´understand you half of the times! 

[FierceKitty]

English is my first language and I can't puzzle out a lot of what's posted!

[Scolty]

Craig,

I understand your feelings - I have been a LTL (long time lurker) on the forum but have contributed nothing over the past year or so. This has been due to several factors (won't bore everyone with them.) However, I have taken the opportunity of the competition to give a boost to my 'tardy' painting of 2 Pendraken ACW armies (RF&F) and also to make good with a New Year resolution to begin to post on the forum. I imagine a few others will do the same. I thoroughly enjoy reading posts on the different topics and the photo section (especially ACW) always provides inspiration. My main concern is what to paint after the ACW! I have 2 small AWI armies awaiting but I also like the look of the Mongol and Augsberg ranges and I also have a hankering for the 'new' Napoleonics!
Thanks to Will who gave advice on getting my pics transferred and I WILL post more of them as I progress through the lead pile.

Eric
(AKA 'Scolty')

[paulr]

 

Some very good points chap's and a difficult one to manage. I am as most of you know, a pro painter, unfortunately i dont game so am unable to comment on a lot of posts so can only really contribute to the visual side of the forum. I can see and understand all points made.  I got my inspiration and uniform knowledge from  Dazza's great works on here and hopefully have given the same to other people in return, not just to show off. I'd like to think i have helped a few people on the way and am always here to help, i dont know if their are more pro painters on here but i would be happy to sit out the competitions in the future and just stick to posting in the threads. The competition for me,(as it should be), is just great fun, not just going in to win but to see all the great work and showcase what is possible in 10mm.


kev

You and many others have certainly helped and inspired me
I would dearly miss your entries if they weren't there   even though it would improve my slim chances   

The very success of the competition in raising standards is causing challenges

[quasar42]

I would find it a great pity if participation in the painting competition would be limited in any other way than the basic conditions that apply today. The contributions are extremely inspiring. The more there are the greater the fun. I also fail to see the connection between forum posting frequency and participation in the competition. The only question one could ask is whether "professionals" should be separated from the "amateurs". But that is unrelated to somebody's posting frequency on the forums and it is not something that bothers me. If some of the 28mm pros could be drawn to the one real scale that could only be a good thing. I missed the deadline this year, but hope to participate next year again.

[mollinary]

I love ogling the entries in the competition, and find them inspiring.  Should "professionals" be able to compete?  From my point of view the answer would be a resounding yes, their work is amazing, and shows off Pendraken figures for the works of art they are. Should they be eligible for the prizes?  I think that is a question only those who donate the prizes should be able to decide, but I am not sure that the prizes are the motivation for people entering.  I hope we can keep a sense of proportion here.  I also hope we do not take ourselves so seriously that we encumber the competition with more rules and restrictions than the Oscars or the Olympics.  Is the Painting Competition broke?  I don't think so.  So let's not fix it!

Cheers all,

Mollinary