WWI considered.

[General Greenman]

I guess on reflection about a conflict that my grandfather fought in ' I can see it at several levels . At a human level it was slaughter as is war at any time and for many the national meanings of it were lost in the struggle for survival . I have read of certain sectors of the front where both sides took the decision to live and let live with very little actual conflict actually taking place for periods of time not just on Christmas 1914.
As to the view of troops led by by 'donkeys, several commentators note quite validly that the generals in Britain and France had not envisaged a war of this form where they faced the manifest communication difficulties and it is noted that there were a considerable number of senior officers killed during battles .
Yet there is another where this war has to be analysed and that is that it was a war of competition between capitalist nations whom were looking to re-divde their resource pie and assert their power . After all war is political debate without the nicety of diplomacy and to what end is war fought by nations other than a greater control and access to economic resources . The problem with this is the human cost and suffering but at least the conflict did force some changes and limited gains for the proletariat of several nations as political and social history reflects

[fsn]

Anyone watch "37 Days"? I wasn't going to, but got sucked in to the first episode.

Excellent drama, which conveyed a sense of the time IMHO.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

I wasn't going to, but I caught the back of episode 2 and was transfixed by the end of three as the British Cabinet stood round the clock waiting...

[Fenton]

Just about managed to catch the first episode of 37 days as per usual the BBC forgot to advertise it...Really enjoyed it, the last as I suppose was to be expected was the best of the 3

[FierceKitty]

I wasn't there, and it's not a war that has ever interested me (apart from dogfights), but I believe Monty supports the "wombats led by gerbils" verdict or whatever the wildlife cliche is; he was there, so may have to be considered seriously. Though heaven knows, he had a fine knack of getting other things wrong.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Agree 37 days is excellent.

IanS

[Leman]

Well I watched it because it was advertised on the BBC. The force did not appear to be with the Emperor on this occasion.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Which one -there were 3 or 4 if you include Eddy, although in Europe he was only a King.

IanS

[mollinary]

Which one -there were 3 or 4 if you include Eddy, although in Europe he was only a King.

IanS

Unfortunately, in Europe, as every else, in 1914 he was a corpse!   He died in 1910. Bearing in mind Hapsburg funeral rituals, there are no titles when you are dead.

Mollinary

[Leman]

Emperor Palpatine of course.

[Subedai]

There was a prog on the other night -BBC4 I think- that was all about how war photography was viewed by the governments and military top brass of Britain and Germany during WW I. The Germans positively endorsed it all through whereas the Brits took the opposite view. No Press were allowed with the army and after the unofficial truce of Christmas 1914, they issued an order banning cameras from the front which was issued at the front so any newcomers didn't know about it. Then in 1916 they put out a blanket ban on all unofficial cameras. There were still cameras used though even though the subject matter became slightly more sensitive as if the photographer had become disillusioned with the whole thing. They concentrated on two collections -one from each side- and this trend was visible in both sets. The modern two met up somewhere on the Somme battlefield and it transpired the two original photographers were only two miles apart at one stage.
  In another part of the prog there was a man who worked on the bins back in the 70's and had a collection of medals, pictures, booklets and other paraphernalia people had thrown out that he had rescued just before it got crushed. It got my goat about the stupidity of some people.
It was bot fascinating and moving at the same time. Amazing.

All schoolchildren should learn about the effects of both WW I and II on society and ways to stop it ever happening again. Sometimes, when I read about any war, but especially the last two, I have a little tweak of conscience about how I balance my hobby with what I know about the effects of war.

Why don't politicians ever listen to the ones that fought, they are the only ones who know what it's like. If they did we might get somewhere. Unfortunately both memories and effects fade with each generation.

Okay, that's enough philosophical verbiage.

[paulr]

...
All schoolchildren should learn about the effects of both WW I and II on society and ways to stop it ever happening again. Sometimes, when I read about any war, but especially the last two, I have a little tweak of conscience about how I balance my hobby with what I know about the effects of war.
....

Wargaming with models, not computer games, is one of the best ways to teach the school children about war. Listerning to my son when he was about 13 talking to his mates about D-Day really made clear to me how little most know and how much he had learned through wargaming.

My father served in 2 Btn, East Yorkshire and landed on D-Day so we built up a force based on a company of his battalion supported by 13/18th Hussars and Centaurs. For the Germans we did a Panzergrenadier company from Hans von Lucks Regiment of 21st Panzer Div. He prefers to play the British which leads to the comment, "be careful with that infantry or you will kill your Grandfather", from me.

[Subedai]

What a great idea, I'd become a History teacher tomorrow if that were the case.

In this instance, ignorance is most definitely not bliss. Makes you worry for the following generations and how enlightened they will be on the major historical issues.

[Subedai]

Sorry, gone all maudlin again...and without alcahol. Hmmm, I wonder what Ma Subs is putting in the tea???

[burnaby64]

One of my most moving experiences was attending the 80th anniversary commemorations at Ypres on the 11th of November 1998. The whole day was very special, ending with the Last Post at the Menin Gate. A colleague and I had been given a day off school for the event as we were to spend the short afternoon after the ceremony laying wreaths and placing poppy-decorated crosses at all the graves of the school's fallen that we could find in the immediate area. It was a day of cold, bleak weather and we read out each old boy's entry from the roll of honour as we marked his grave. I'll never forget it.

[Subedai]

What a memory that is, something to cherish.

I had a similar experience a couple of years ago. I used to be the go-to person for charity and community work for a big retail company and in that capacity I was invited to the Soldiers Ward at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Brum. The incredibly positive attitude of the servicemen who had lost a limb or limbs was such an eye-opening and humbling experience that it knocked the everyday, mundane problems that myself and the vast majority of people have right into touch.

On the other side of the coin, I was once on a bus in Brum and to honour the 2 minutes silence the driver pulled over just before 11 and stopped the bus. Even after he explained why he had done so some middle-aged tw*t wanted the driver to carry on. It was only because he got such a round of f**ks from everyone on the bus who basically told him to sit down, shut up and show some respect that he did, but he was still moaning and even threatened to report the driver.  

It's not just the young who need educating, there are a fair few ignorant older tossers who need re-educating as well.

[FierceKitty]

I had the experience of being shown the cave on a Free State farm where my then in-laws' grandparents had taken refuge when the Brits came to burn the farmhouse and take the inhabitants to the camps. Even as a quarter Boer myself, I felt very self-conscious as an English speaker.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26654314

And the war is still killing people!