1866 Austrian Gun Teams

[Hertsblue]

John Dz, Holdfast, has kindly had a look at the relevant section in Teuber and Ottenfeld's history of the Austrian Army up to 1867. His German is much better than mine, but I don't think this source solves our problem.  It clearly identifies the original introduction of the new plumed shake for officers only. It then describes the shako cover, how it was attached around the plume, and mentions that the shako was worn in its cover, apart from on parades.  It then describes the later regulations which modify the shako, and extend its use to other ranks in the Field artillery, and officers in the technical artillery.  It makes no mention of removal of the plume, or the shako, in the field. More interestingly, it mentions no distinction between the foot and horse artillery.  So, I think I would go for just the figure with the plume, for all my gunners.    Of course, nothing is definitive so far,  so await with interest  anyone else's discoveries.


Mollinary

I think, when all's said and done, that the presence or not of a plume on a 10mm figure is something only wargamers would argue over. I'm with Molliary.

[Leman]

My head hurts!

[mollinary]

Well, here we go with thread necromancy again!   Just back from a most enjoyable trip to Bohemia touring the battlefields, and managed to have a chat on this subject with a Czech expert. His name is Mr Grof, and he is responsible for the upkeep of all the monuments in the Trautenau area. He has also set up an impressive museum concentrating on the artillery during this war  in St John's chapel on the battlefield. Artillery is his specialism, and he has original copies of all the regulations of this period.  He is even supervising the construction of full scale replicas of Austrian rifled fortress artillery for the museum at the fortress of Josefstadt.  The statement that the foot artillery did not wear the plume in 1866 he believes originates in a book on the Austrian Artillery written by the director of the Austrian Army History Museum in Vienna. He was less than complimentary about the accuracy of various aspects of the text! He was quite firm that the Foot Artillery did wear the plume on campaign in 1866, and that the use of the small detachable rainproof cover was also widespread.  I do not think I am going to find a better source, so for me, my foot artillery crews keep their plumes!

Mollinary

[FierceKitty]

Remember that there are three centuries of bad blood between the Czechs and the Austrians, of course.

[mollinary]

Remember that there are three centuries of bad blood between the Czechs and the Austrians, of course.

Maybe so, but it would hardly be forwarded by a respected authority suggesting that foot gunners wore their plumes on campaign!    - you wouldn't have shaved yours off by any chance, would you, FK?   

Mollinary

[cameronian]

Must say I'd believe Grof on this; don't suppose he mentioned the pamphlet I've been trying to get him to write ? How was the trip, did you unearth anything new ?

[Hertsblue]

Phew! So we have avoided that massive clanger - more by luck than judgement. Better tell Leon, though. He was about to create two separate masters. 

[Leon]

Phew! So we have avoided that massive clanger - more by luck than judgement. Better tell Leon, though. He was about to create two separate masters. 

Bit late now, we've already moulded both sets... 

Never mind, anyone need some 'generic' Austrian-ish limber riders without any plumes... 

[mollinary]

Actually, they would make perfect members of the support train, as outriders for pulling supply wagons. Good job you didn't model the gun crew without them as well!  . Of course, the question which might be asked by the ungenerous, is when will we get the limber sitter figures WITH  the plume! 

Mollinary

[Leon]

Of course, the question which might be asked by the ungenerous, is when will we get the limber sitter figures WITH  the plume! 

[vitrier]

All this raises the question of when the shako plume was introduced. I don't think I have ever seen a representation of Austrian gunners in 1859 wearing the shako plume. For example, Bruce Weigle's 1859 rules show on page 53 a Fritz Neumann illustration of Austrian artillery in action at San Martino. There is not a plume to be seen.

[mollinary]

All this raises the question of when the shako plume was introduced. I don't think I have ever seen a representation of Austrian gunners in 1859 wearing the shako plume. For example, Bruce Weigle's 1859 rules show on page 53 a Fritz Neumann illustration of Austrian artillery in action at San Martino. There is not a plume to be seen.

This question is much easier to answer, as it is contained in the Teuber and Ottenfled History of the Army 1700-1867. For officers, the plume was introduced by an order of 18 September 1860.  For other ranks the new shako, with the plume, was introduced by an order of  3 July 1862.

Sorted!

Mollinary

[Leman]

La plume de ma tante est sur le shako de ma l'oncle. Right then, lets wait for the OCD brigade to tell us that plume means pen in French.

[vitrier]

Sorted indeed! I am most grateful.

Vitrier

[Hertsblue]

La plume de ma tante est sur le shako de ma l'oncle. Right then, lets wait for the OCD brigade to tell us that plume means pen in French.

[mollinary]

La plume de ma tante est sur le shako de ma l'oncle. Right then, lets wait for the OCD brigade to tell us that plume means pen in French.

If only we had a French FK (chat ferocieuse?  ) I am sure he/she would have pointed out that it should be "mon oncle" , as Molesworth might have said " as any fule kno!" 

Mollinary

[Leman]

B*****ks! Not the OCD brigade but the French teacher. Honest sir, me uncle's a tranny.

[Techno]

 
Cheers - Phil

[mollinary]

B*****ks! Not the OCD brigade but the French teacher. Honest sir, me uncle's a tranny.

So she is, in fact your Auntie? In which case she would be "ma tante"?   

Mollinary

PS in retrospect, should our French FK not have been "chat feroce""?  Fraps L'Enfer de moi,

M

[FierceKitty]

FK much disturbed people take his name in vane.